Layout Track Plans in Exhibition Programmes

[Kenton]

 

For the record I'm one of the two organisers of DEMU's Showcase and this year we printed track plans for all but 2 or 3 of the 12 layouts, I can only imagine it gets much harder for the larger shows!  Our basic starting point is that we try to make the Showguide attractive and useful to our exhibitors, traders and visitors - so descriptions of layouts, photos if possible, contact details for traders, floor plan. We are fortunate to be in the position that we could have them professionally printed and give them away for free.

 

Feel free to critique this year's guide (personally I think Guy made an excellent job of it): http://www.demu.org.uk/showcase/2013/ShowGuide2013.pdf

 

Cheers, Mike

Mike, it is much more difficult to criticise something that is free and I have no intention of doing so. But once agian we have an illustration that trackplans are not as rare as they seem to be and that including 10/12 is achievable. It is the score of 0/29 more incredulous.

 

Perhaps some misguided decision was made to axe them from the Wycrail guide - if so then a simple statement to the effect and perhaps an apology for the personal attacks that ensued. It could have been such a simple "we forgot" - well we all make mistakes. When you are expecting visitors to pay for something there needs to be something of value.

 

Perhaps something for all show organisers to contemplate rather than go into automaton (we have always done it this way) mode.

[Phil Parker]

The exhibitors may give you anything from a high quality print ready image to a low res scan of a hand drawn plan, or they may give you nothing (despite being asked). If the layout features in a mag which draws up a decent plan then it is often worth the owner(s) asking for a copy of the file plus permission to use it - most (if not all?) mags are happy to let the images be re-used, particularly if suitable credit is given. The next question is does it matter if the plans are of different quality? Ideally they would be consistent, but that takes time/skill.

 

Leading onto the next point - what skills are available? I'm pretty IT savvy, but I know that I won't produce nice-looking, high quality layout plans as I'm not a graphic designer. Sure I can create a computer version of the hand-drawn sketch, but is that good enough? How long will it take etc?

 

So we are back to balancing effort and skills vs outcomes....

 

Which is the nub of the problem. The programme producer will find themselves wiht a pile of track plans of varying qualities. Some will be in pencil, some in Serif software, some in Croeldraw, some in PDF (mine is as part of the blurb sheet) probably at least one supplied a DXF. All they have to do is extract the information, turn it into something presentable. Shouldn't take more than a week of unpaid work. Of course, he's probably more interested in getting adverts from the trade in a format he can use, a tough enough job but at least it brings in income.

 

As for being sure to find someone with the technical ability to do this in any club. That's probably the guy looking after the website and he's doing all he wants to at the time. On RMweb everyone is technical. I can think of at least one club (not one I belong to) where most of the members don't own a computer, have never accessed the web and don't want to. They still put on a show though.

 

At the end of the day, the show guides cost next to no money to punters. If you don't want to buy it, don't.

[beast66606]

Do you want a track plan  (of the scenic section) for Widnes or the fiddle yard ? - which is what most viewers (who ask for a plan) ask for as they are fascinated by it's complexity.

[Miss Prism]

Not sure I would get too excited about an exhibition guide including a track plan for this...

 

 

[Kenton]

 

If you don't want to buy it, don't.

Simply said. But the visitor doesn't get the chance to make that decision based on content. At some shows it is pretty close to being mugged £1 for a show guide before you even reach the door. You might be lucky and base your purchase on previous year's guides. But as we have just seen that is no certainty of value. Perhaps I should hold up the queue next time while I read through the guide because I don't trust the organiser's ability to put value into it.

 

As said above I would rather they simply gave away a sheet of A4 with the hall "how to find" layout and included that cost in the show price. Forget chasing advertisers - most seem to be irrelevant to the show. Make the overworked editor of the guide redundant so they can spend more time enjoying the show. I'll take along a pencil and paper and join the standing queue of scribblers in front of the layout and asking to get behind it to see all those bits that can't be seen from the front.

 

On the other hand a well produced guide adds something and I'm happy to pay the 50p or £1. If it contains layout plans like previous year's or has stepped up to the mark improving as the show itself improves then what is the extra few pence? The advertising may help as I actually take the trouble to read the whole thing rather than simply disposing of it with no regard to any effort put into it. It becomes something I want to keep and maybe refer to again. It is a statement about the show.

[Kenton]

 

Not sure I would get too excited about an exhibition guide including a track plan for this...

Perhaps not if all that is given. However, when not just given in isolation it will help explain the FY operation. If the track simply continues all the way like that I'd have difficulty in calling it a layout and any show just showing that as an exhibit might find visitors asking for their entry fee back.

[Barnaby]

Yes I always like to see a layout plan in the guide.  I use it as a ref on the day and later when at home to help with ideas for my own layout.

 

As has been said above "how often on this forum do you find a new layout gets a request for it's track plan even though there have been several pictures included."  If anything in my experience the more photos there are the greater the interest in a track pla/layout there is.

 

Regards

[Geoff Endacott]

The current Trainwest 2014 score is 12 plans supplied from 23 layouts. Some of these may not make it into the guide because they will not reproduce very well.

 

I will be asking the owners of the other layouts to supply plans, if they can.

 

We used to have Sixth Form student in the club who sorted out the track plans for us. He managed to re-draw them if necessary and get them all into the correct format for printing. He left and is now working in the computer industry designing things which can be made by 3D printers.

 

Geoff Endacott

[Phil Parker]

 Simply said. But the visitor doesn't get the chance to make that decision based on content. At some shows it is pretty close to being mugged £1 for a show guide before you even reach the door. You might be lucky and base your purchase on previous year's guides. But as we have just seen that is no certainty of value. Perhaps I should hold up the queue next time while I read through the guide because I don't trust the organiser's ability to put value into it.

 

As said above I would rather they simply gave away a sheet of A4 with the hall "how to find" layout and included that cost in the show price. Forget chasing advertisers - most seem to be irrelevant to the show. Make the overworked editor of the guide redundant so they can spend more time enjoying the show. I'll take along a pencil and paper and join the standing queue of scribblers in front of the layout and asking to get behind it to see all those bits that can't be seen from the front.

 

On the other hand a well produced guide adds something and I'm happy to pay the 50p or £1. If it contains layout plans like previous year's or has stepped up to the mark improving as the show itself improves then what is the extra few pence? The advertising may help as I actually take the trouble to read the whole thing rather than simply disposing of it with no regard to any effort put into it. It becomes something I want to keep and maybe refer to again. It is a statement about the show.

 

You are hardly "mugged" for a £1. When the guide costs about the same as bar of chocolate, it's not the end of the world. If it matters that much, I doubt anyone is bothered if you flick through it first.

 

The editor can't "Forget chasing advertisers" either, the advertising funds the show guide and any surplus goes toward the show. Thus, they matter more than re-drawing loads of layout plans when they guy has to allocate time.

[exmoordave]

Oh dear, sometimes the poor Exhibition organiser just cannot do right for doing wrong....

 

In the words of the song "Garden Party": "You can't please everyone, so you gotta please yourself" (allowing for time/skills/access parameters obviously)

 

best to all

 

exmoordave

[black and decker boy]

Not sure I would get too excited about an exhibition guide including a track plan for this...

Shouldn't there be a hump and a class 13 somewhere in the middle of that lot?

[Judge Dread]

A case in point.  I have just received, 4 weeks before the show, a track plan of a very interesting layout where it could be useful to include it.  It is a copy of a copy and unless I set to work in CAD to redraw it from scratch which would take many hours it's not fit for purpose.    I'm going to use the photo as usual.   We are modellers not graphic artists.

 

Jamie

I think Jamie has said it all in those six words! I have certainly tried to draw a track plan to go out with my layout publicity paperwork and I failed miserably on several occasions. My efforts, I considered, were just not accurate enough.

My layout "Meopham East Junction" has appeared in three national railway modelling magazines and only two of them have provided a track plan to go with my words. (all three articles were different by the way) Unfortunately both diagrams were not quite right but as I did not have any part in their drawing, I did not complain then and I still don't complain now! Incidentally, both diagrams(suitably source identified) are on my web site and therefore are available for downloading should anyone wish to.

[Clive Mortimore]

You ....... When the guide costs about the same as bar of chocolate,............. time.

I knew there was a reason I don't buy a guide anymore, it is so  I can afford to have a Mars bar with my cuppa at half time.

 

I tend not to buy a guide as I never use them and never look at them when I get home, they just seem to join that big pile of railway stuff that needs tidying up before the posh sister-in-law visits.

[roundhouse]

I too agree with Jamie.

 

Whilst I do use software a lot (JMRI for instance), so far I have only managed to do one track plan on the PC and it's for the new layout. I want to be able to do track plans for the other layouts but as a number of them are ovals that is where I get stuck at the moment so hand drawn ones exist. Plans have been produced by the model magazines where articles have been done for various layouts. However they all vary in style so even providing these to exhibition organisers where I have permission would give them a headache trying to get a common style as has been mentioned in an earlier post.

One day I will master the software but I would much rather spend my time modelling.

 

Ian

[chaz]

Sorry but I can't see that it matters much either way....I must confess to a liking for trackplans, especially if they include signalling, but I can't say I would be outraged if a layout description in a show guide didn't include one. The important thing is to view the layout and take in the design that way.

 

My sympathy is all with the exhibition organisers - at times it must be like herding cats. I'm just grateful that they are prepared to do the job and generally make a success of it.

 

Chaz

[Geoff Endacott]

You are hardly "mugged" for a £1.

 

You obviously haven't met our programme sellers!

 

Geoff Endacott

[andyram]

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear! I never realised that track plans could create the sort of atmosphere usually reserved for Derby County V Nottingham Forest matches (or any home game involving Millwall!) or even the Prime Minister's question time!.

 

 The fact is as an amateur exhibition manager I am already realising that you cannot satisfy everyone all of the time. At the end of the day we all like model railways, but as individuals we all like different aspects of the hobby. Some people will spend hours looking at a B.R blue era layout or an American region model, yet others will walk straight past as its "not their thing". Micro layouts and shunting puzzles also divide opinion in the same way.

 As for track plans; there are people out there who like to see them others, like Kenton, who are obsessed by them and others who prefer to read the layout descriptions whilst they are standing at that particular layout. In my opinion I have two eyes and I can see the track in front of me so I very rarely look at the track plans but do like to read a bit of background information and maybe even pick up construction tips. The only time I feel that plans are crucial are in model railway mags where I can't physically see the whole layout.

 

 It is clear some of the more vocal people (well one) has never had the experience of organising a show or producing a guide for a model railway exhibition. He has made his opinion known - he wants track plans on every page, on his walls, probably even on his loo paper!!! We get the message!!!!!!

 The fact is many shows may be large and "professional" but at the end of the day they are all run by people as a hobby. There are various skills out there. Some clubs benefit from people who can draw, reproduce plans or whatever - other clubs may not have those people. There are no PLC's or Limited companies running exhibitions, they are all run by people for the love of it!

 Now I suggest some people accept that we can't all get what we want. If we did I would have Rachel Riley sat next to me now helping me mark the children's Maths work. Not for her mathematical skills you understand!!!

 

  Now, for the record. I have a small layout available for exhibitions. I am not skilled enough to draw a track plan, maybe that is why my only invite has been to my own show.

[Jol Wilkinson]

 There are no PLC's or Limited companies running exhibitions, they are all run by people for the love of it!

 

Warners?  Hornby Magazine?

 

I note that their show guides, presumably produced with full access to professional designers, etc. haven't had a mention.

[andyram]

Warners?  Hornby Magazine?

 

I note that their show guides, presumably produced with full access to professional designers, etc. haven't had a mention.

 

I stand corrected. However these were not the shows mentioned in previous examples of "professionally" run shows!

[ELTEL]

Can not comment on Hornby exhibition guide as I don't think I have seen one.

 

I have seen the Warners effort and it is very poor, more small brochure with little layout information content, but as it is free why complain.

 

By the way you missed Model Rail

 

But enough of this tittle tattle lets do some modelling.

 

Eltel

[The Stationmaster]

Warners?  Hornby Magazine?

 

I note that their show guides, presumably produced with full access to professional designers, etc. haven't had a mention.

The most recent Ally Pally one was a simple folded document with a list of 'runners & riders' and plans of where to find them in the two halls - struck me as a rather good idea to be honest although some information about layouts is always welcome (but was on the 'net, I believe, in this instance).  But an ideal approach for trying to find one's way around a large exhibition hall as far as we were concerned.

 

The lack of trackplans in exhibition guides doesn't really worry me to be honest - it's one reason why Iook at the layouts, that usually conveys far more to me than any trackplan ever could.

[HillsideDepot]

Following this thread as someone who will this weekend prepare a track plan of my new layout to meet a request for one from an exhibition manager who has contributed to this thread, I have mixed feelings.

Personally I don't make use of guides when I visit shows. I certainly wouldn't purchase one, and usually decline a free one, unless the person offering it looks especially upset by my disinterest. On the other hand I do try to get a copy of the guide for every show I exhibit at, as a memory jogger and as part of that layout's "history".
 

As several have already mentioned modelling the real thing is more of an interest to me than modelling a model. OK, the location might be imaginary, but so much of real railway practise can be used to construct a convincing layout. There are plenty of models which are designed like models, rather than as convincing pieces of real railway in miniature. But if they make their builders and the paying public happy, far be it for me to comment - suffice to say they aren't my "thing".

It has also been mentioned that it is often necessary to study the operation of a layout to make sense of a track plan, be that a drawn plan, or the layout in front of you. Similarly, how accurate are the plans, especially when shrunk down to the size of the typical A5 exhibition guide page? A layout schematic is one thing, but if the critical length of the run round or the head shunt or whatever isn't known is the plan much use? I don't know, I guess it depends what you want.

I agree that plans in magazine articles are a different matter. There the photos might not show all of the layout, and how the loco gets to the depot, or quite where the coal siding is connected to the running line might only show on the plan. But at a show you can look at the whole layout, and pick up those details. I have certainly sketched a few layouts whilst standing in front of them at a show, but added notes like "loco and two" or "distance X must accommodate Y" when that becomes obvious from observation of the operation, details which a plan is unlikely to show.

However, if the "customer" (whether that be considered the exhibition manager or the paying public) want a track plan I shall try to accommodate that request. Yes, it is, to a degree, part of the presentation of a layout, like the drapes round the front and the painted baseboard edges, but the good ol' Mk1 eyeball is also important in gathering that information.

 

[PLD]

The only lack of understanding I have is why Wycrail got it close to right in 2011 and not anywhere close in 2013. I can't seem to find my 2012 show guide.

 

Most of which fall down completely when I restate Wycrail 2011 managed to do it so why not Wycrail 2013? And so we do not just concentrate on Wycrail - If Epson and others do it why doesn't everyone?

 

I keep coming back to the one issue that has confused me here - why the Wycrail guide in 2011 had the majority of layouts with plans whereas 2013 did not? I cannot see that explained by all the layout owners concerned never having produced a track plan.

 

Very Simple... it wasn't (I assume) the same layouts being described in the 2013 guide as in the 2011 guide (if it was then you would have something legitimate to moan about!!!).

 

As so many have commented not all layouts provide the same information to the same standard and there is no way you can force them to do so.

 

 

[PLD]

I have seen the Warners effort and it is very poor, more small brochure with little layout information content, but as it is free why complain.

 

By the way you missed Model Rail

 

But enough of this tittle tattle lets do some modelling.

 

Eltel

 

It is ironic that the guide Warners produce for the Midland Railex is actually a more comprehensive than they have offered at their own shows for the last couple of years...

[Kenton]

 

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear! I never realised that track plans could create the sort of atmosphere

Not ever having been to a football match or ever wishing to do so, but I DO get the frustrated message you impart.

 

Let's try to get this whol;e topic in perspective.

 

I was not the OP of this topic. My original comment on the other thread was taken way out of contect and posted as a source for possible discussion here.

 

My original comment on the Wycrail topic - for those who do not care to go back and read it. Was set in the context of great praise for the show - which I enjoyed. Making the point that it had made so many steps into becoming one of the top shows that there was little left to improve. In that respect as far as I was concerned the show guide was not up to the standard of similar top shows in that it did not contain a single track plan. Something that is seen in most of the top show guides and something I particularly enjoy seeing.

 

I didn't post in this separate topic until page 3 by which time there was already much heat and even a Moderator intervention. The topic had clearly been created as a result of my comment on the other topic and I felt obliged to add more detail and to add other facts based on other show guides and most importantly the previous show guide for Wycrail.

 

I am amazed that the topic has become so heated and vindictive (perhaps I shouldn't be)

 

I have placed the simple question why the change in policy at Wycrail and we have had no response except others saying it is either not possible because layout owners don't supply track plans, or that they are incapable of drawing them, to the suggestion that they could pay for them to be of the standard of those published in the Model Press. We have suggestions that it is too expensive, or that the costs cannot be recovered by the cover price and advertising. We have had suggestions that it takes too much time and effort to produce the by the club.

 

It is clear that some of us like them, probably most haven't even noticed them, and some really don't care or purchase a show guide.

 

It is not that big an issue - it was only a minor thing I noticed at the show, something I felt could be improved in a perfect world.

 

But none of this answers that fundamental question of why take the decision to remove them from this year's guide? Something that could have been settled in the other topic without all the unworthy heat and vindictiveness generated in this topic.