RCD vans

[RonnieS]

Oh I do apologise for forgetting to mention that. I seem to remember they were redundant/ modified Maunsel Open 3rds, however I might have been mistaken. I seem to remember that the windows were all sheeted over with some sort of aluminium.

P

Broccoli was carried in cattle trucks, Bananas in (at first) steam heated vans and then later in insulated vans. Fish was carried in both ventilated (to let the pong out) and insulated (to keep the pong in) vans. Some meat vans were ventilated but I think this topic has shot my very serious enquiry

HR meat vans in BR days

in the foot!

[Main Man]

Oh I do apologise for forgetting to mention that. I seem to remember they were redundant/ modified Maunsel Open 3rds, however I might have been mistaken. I seem to remember that the windows were all sheeted over with some sort of aluminium.

P

The reason I asked was my Grandfather used to ship his marrows up to the Royal Show on bogie bolsters. However what you say  is correct because at Clapham JCT the trains would be remarshalled as O3/BV/O3/BV/O3 etc the BV being ex LNER bread vans to dia 335.  Ideal for cucumber sandwiches.

[Mallard60022]

The reason I asked was my Grandfather used to ship his marrows up to the Royal Show on bogie bolsters. However what you say  is correct because at Clapham JCT the trains would be remarshalled as O3/BV/O3/BV/O3 etc the BV being ex LNER bread vans to dia 335.  Ideal for cucumber sandwiches.

Wow, almost all the BVs in one train; how fab if one was a rolling stock spotter. Clever ploy by the shunters to create the sandwich train; good old London boys.

In the late 50s/early 60s my Uncle used to send us vegetables from his allotment in Consett in the empty Iron Ore hoppers on their way back down to Tyne Dock. Boy we got tough eating all that iron dust laced veg. No feeble finger nails or pallid skin in out family back then.

Also, when I were still but a wee laddy back in the dark days just after the second great war, those cunning fellows on the island of Jersey kicked out the dreaded hun, went back to growing spuds and then shipped them all in Cattle wagons up to the 'smoke' on New  Potato  Specials from Pennyzance, complete with headboard on the loco. I've got a picture of one somewhere.........

It was during one of these trips, when the Grange was sidelined and lurched into the loop a bit sharpish, that crisps were discovered, when the resulting slices of spuds that had fallen by the track got baked in the bright Somerset sun. Happy days.

P 

Edited November 8, 2013 by Mallard60022

[ColinK]

I have to say this is most enjoyable topic on RM web.  Great fun.

[corneliuslundie]

I think this is probably the best thread to ask about traffic from Collumpton treacle mines, which my grandfather often spoke about.

 

A search on GEMGLE gives other local mines such as Dunchideock and Newtown Abbott but nothing on the Collumpton mines. Also information on several mines in other parts of the country.

 

I am not sure if the treacle was processed before shipping out, in which case tankers would presumably have been used, or whether it was shipped elsewhere for processing (perhaps a Tate & Lyle factory) in which case sheeted opens or minerals might have been suitable.Surprisingly there does not seem to be a relevant GWR wagon diagram, so perhaps they were conversions of pre-gouping wagons from one of the absorbed companies..

[Alan Higgi]

I think this is probably the best thread to ask about traffic from Collumpton treacle mines, which my grandfather often spoke about.

 

A search on GEMGLE gives other local mines such as Dunchideock and Newtown Abbott but nothing on the Collumpton mines. Also information on several mines in other parts of the country.

 

I am not sure if the treacle was processed before shipping out, in which case tankers would presumably have been used, or whether it was shipped elsewhere for processing (perhaps a Tate & Lyle factory) in which case sheeted opens or minerals might have been suitable.Surprisingly there does not seem to be a relevant GWR wagon diagram, so perhaps they were conversions of pre-gouping wagons from one of the absorbed companies..

It may be best to start a new thread as the treacle mines had all closed before the all imprtant cut of date of April 1956.

However an article appeared in a late 1960s RAILWAY MODELLER on the Wheal Clidgy mines and the vehicles.

[RonnieS]

You're not taking this hobby seriously are you?

 

Mike.

"Wind up" and truth are sometimes close. This one is true

 

I was on a rail tour near Shrewsbury. ‘twas in a DMU. Don’t know which class but open arrangement. Some guy pipes up “Look a Monster behind the signal box!” He then wished the ground would swallow him up. Of course if he had said “Look a diagram P16 vehicle behind the signal box!” He would have been OK.

 

I guess we have all been embarrassed by a similar. Buffers, bogies, toads and BGs have caught me out!

[RonnieS]

So as this has now worn thin it is (almost) time to reveal all.Who is the builder? 

[RonnieS]

It may be best to start a new thread as the treacle mines had all closed before the all imprtant cut of date of April 1956.

However an article appeared in a late 1960s RAILWAY MODELLER on the Wheal Clidgy mines and the vehicles.

Was treacle carried by rail? Are the "United Molasses” and “Guinness” tankers prototypical? 

[Enterprisingwestern]

Who is the builder? 

 

Not really bothered, but he has my vote for kicking off the best thread in ages.

 

Mike.

[TerryD1471]

Hi ron

 

Shall I reveal all?

 

So as this has now worn thin it is (almost) time to reveal all.Who is the builder? 

 

I am very happy to reveal that the builder of these beautifully made but non-authentic vehicles is Norman Turner, Chairman of Wolverhampton Model Railway Club, whom I have been privileged to know for more than 25 years.

 

Terry D

 

late of Wolverhampton.

Edited November 10, 2013 by TerryD1471

[Bob O]

 

"Wind up" and truth are sometimes close. This one is true

 

 

I was on a rail tour near Shrewsbury. ‘twas in a DMU. Don’t know which class but open arrangement. Some guy pipes up “Look a Monster behind the signal box!” He then wished the ground would swallow him up. Of course if he had said “Look a diagram P16 vehicle behind the signal box!” He would have been OK.

 

 

I guess we have all been embarrassed by a similar. Buffers, bogies, toads and BGs have caught me out!

 

 

Is it a rake of dogfish or a herd or a pack or a school?

[Jol Wilkinson]

Great information. I've been looking for a photo of the BR (W) ELV (enthusiast's library vehicle), without success. I understand that they were used as part of the Model Railway Exhibition specials, usually coupled to an Observation coach, to enable disputes to be resolved through access to a large collection of railway reference books.

 

I did see a picture of one in  "The idiot's guide to being a model railway expert", by I K Better, published by Froth and Complain, but can't find it now

[RonnieS]

Paul Bartlett will be really interested in this unusual item.

Is the model DCC? It is a model isn't it?

Quack

It's not DCC. It does work well.......... er............. I mean the alternative detectors revolve  slowly and smoothly. The  second vehicle is a "cell truck" containing a battery.

[Mallard60022]

Is there an UB filter on the underframe?

P

[Bernard Lamb]

Was treacle carried by rail? Are the "United Molasses” and “Guinness” tankers prototypical? 

The largest treacle mine in the country was located at Sabden.

it was founded by the monks back around 1400 and the product was reputed to keep the black death at bay.

I did have a guided tour there back in the late 50s.

It was rail served at one time but the wagons were not loco hauled due to the steepness of the hillside. There was a rope worked incline but heavy floods around 1947 obliterated this.

They went over to road transport after this date but it closed a few years later and  some time after that the shaft was filled in.

Bernard

[Enterprisingwestern]

Could you please refrain from entering the fantasy world of treacle mining and keep this thread for the serious issue of the RCD vans, information is appearing all the time and I wouldn't want to miss a rivet, sorry, post, it has the nuts and bolts of being very interesting.

 

Mike.

[Bernard Lamb]

A Dorodo is preserved at Bridgenorth, Colin. Here is a late 80s shot

 

Preserved.jpg

I must question the packing and chaining for this rivet

When I have seen them in the past the shank of the rivet has been wrapped with a band of straw rope and the chains tightened around this straw band.

It was done in this manner to prevent any damage to the rivet if the load moved due to sudden braking or similar.

The rivet used in the model is obviously an off the shelf product as it is far too shiny.

A touch of weathering would improve it no end.

A scratch built version would be more in keeping with the otherwise excellent standard of modelling.

Bernard

[RonnieS]

I must question the packing and chaining for this rivet

When I have seen them in the past the shank of the rivet has been wrapped with a band of straw rope and the chains tightened around this straw band.

It was done in this manner to prevent any damage to the rivet if the load moved due to sudden braking or similar.

The rivet used in the model is obviously an off the shelf product as it is far too shiny.

A touch of weathering would improve it no end.

A scratch built version would be more in keeping with the otherwise excellent standard of modelling.

Bernard

The Rivets used for calibration were made from steel manufactured at Stewart and Lloyd’s Bilston steelworks. This steel was to specification EN88 (BS 070m21b issue b revision 16) machined prior to chemical blackening. The next process is Stove enamelling. Therefore the appearance is very smooth and shiny. It has to be to repel the ZZ rays employed by rivet counters as a cloaking device.

It may be appropriate to mention, at this point, how effective the RC cloaking device is. In 1993 all 8 of us once knew a rivet counter without realising. It was not until he joined us in the pub and ordered a HALF PINT that the penny dropped!

As I say; the rivet coating repels ZZ rays, weather, grime, grit, sarky comments etc. The chains were made to a top secret formula in Netherton (near Dudley). I interviewed the chain maker in 1997 and he described the securing method as “ like sleet to a blanket” As his accent was rather thick I did not seek technical details. However packing between the chains and rivet was not required.

Edited November 12, 2013 by RonnieS

[Enterprisingwestern]

I must question the packing and chaining for this rivet

When I have seen them in the past the shank of the rivet has been wrapped with a band of straw rope and the chains tightened around this straw band.

It was done in this manner to prevent any damage to the rivet if the load moved due to sudden braking or similar.

The rivet used in the model is obviously an off the shelf product as it is far too shiny.

A touch of weathering would improve it no end.

A scratch built version would be more in keeping with the otherwise excellent standard of modelling.

Bernard

 

You win.

 

Mike.

[Bernard Lamb]

You win.

 

Mike.

You are too kind dear sir.

   

Bernard

[Big Bill]

I must question the packing and chaining for this rivet

When I have seen them in the past the shank of the rivet has been wrapped with a band of straw rope and the chains tightened around this straw band.

It was done in this manner to prevent any damage to the rivet if the load moved due to sudden braking or similar.

The rivet used in the model is obviously an off the shelf product as it is far too shiny.

A touch of weathering would improve it no end.

A scratch built version would be more in keeping with the otherwise excellent standard of modelling.

Bernard

B L 

As I recall in THE FIRST TEN YEARS, the long out of date Tri-ang booklet, The railway Artist Terence Cuneo  weathered a Dorado loaded with a rivet. The wagon was weathered but the load was ex works. He commented on the contrast being what brings models to life. Sir; I like that picture. However I must take Ronnie to task on the securing method. In British Railway Wagon Loads Vol 43 page 231 a  reprinted instruction states rivets must be roped to Dorados.

[RonnieS]

If I am serious will anyone believe me? Well I am. All Monty Pythoness away now.

 

 

I served an apprenticeship at a huge steelworks. Part of the training involved “rigging”. Part of this was securing loads for cranes and railway wagons. Even gas bottles were chained and there was no packing. A “bite” was imparted to cylindrical loads by twisting the chain. I doubt if I could do it now! The rigger twisted the chain stretched it using a “pull lift” and looped the eye into a hook on the crane or wagon. Chains were used in preference to wire or hemp ropes as ropes become frayed and are subject to stretch. Hemp ropes are affected by damp. Nylon ropes were tried circa 1966. Straps came later.

 

[Bernard Lamb]

To continue in a serious vein.

I wrote specs for loading 12-13 t steel coils on to road vehicles way back in the 70s.

Correct use of chains was critical. Some time around then the use of well decks rather than flat beds become compulsory.

It was earthen ware terra cotta type drainage pipes that required the straw banding for protection.

There were, at least until fairly recently, a few odd steel coils that had broken free from lorries in the Ebbow Vale area. One was at least 200 yds from the road.

The energy contained in such a coil is quite considerable and utmost care is needed to secure them correctly.

Bernard

[Jol Wilkinson]

This information on restraining loads is very important. A loose or incorrectly located rivet would cause create confusion/consternation.