Wickham Green too Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 4 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said: ... It was replaced in 1960 by Dock Labour Coach No.3 which was an LMS Period 2 vehicle which is also a challenge to model as it was one of the steel-bodied ones which have a host of differences to the regular types. Pic here from Ray @Marshall5 of this parish: As a two-window vehicle ( dia.1745 dating from 1925/6 ) Jenkinson & Essery would have classified that as "Period 1". 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted January 3 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 3 13 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said: Absolutely correct. The MSC Railways book records its former number as 22209. Lacy & Dow record that number being given in 1938, when the carriage returned to third class after a stint as a brake second, No. 24996, having started out as MR No. 1180 then LMS 23194 in the 1933 renumbering! Withdrawn 10/45. Is the date of sale to MSC known? The Ratio kit is I presume the one you have in mind, D552 48 ft x 8.5 ft wide 4-compartment brake third for the Birmingham area, built a year or two earlier. These used 10 ft wheelbase bogies off turn-of-the-century clerestory carriages, which were being given replacement 8 ft wheelbase bogies, like the ones fitted to 22209. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mol_PMB Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 3 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said: As a two-window vehicle ( dia.1745 dating from 1925/6 ) Jenkinson & Essery would have classified that as "Period 1". Oh, that's an embarrassing mistake on my part! I have the J&E LMS coaching stock books and really should have checked my facts before posting. My excuse is that my head was in the world of Manchester Liners containers, trying to help someone else. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted January 3 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 3 6 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said: As a two-window vehicle ( dia.1745 dating from 1925/6 ) Jenkinson & Essery would have classified that as "Period 1". Only if it was originally wood-panelled? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mol_PMB Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 1 minute ago, Compound2632 said: Lacy & Dow record that number being given in 1938, when the carriage returned to third class after a stint as a brake second, No. 24996, having started out as MR No. 1180 then LMS 23194 in the 1933 renumbering! Withdrawn 10/45. Is the date of sale to MSC known? The Ratio kit is I presume the one you have in mind, D552 48 ft x 8.5 ft wide 4-compartment brake third for the Birmingham area, built a year or two earlier. These used 10 ft wheelbase bogies off turn-of-the-century clerestory carriages, which were being given replacement 8 ft wheelbase bogies, like the ones fitted to 22209. MSC Dock Labour Coach No.1 was delivered to the MSC on 3rd April 1946. They had bought it from The Rolling Stock Company, Darlington, for £220. (Just to be confusing this was the second No.1, but it's this same MR coach we're talking about) I model in 7mm scale so it's a Midland Carriage Works etched kit I was looking at. Less easy to bash than a 4mm scale Ratio kit! MSC Dock Labour Coach No.3 was bought direct from BR on 3rd June 1960 for £275. It was formerly number 7991, built by Met C&W to D1745 lot 185. Sidelines do a kit for the wooden-panelled equivalent but the steel-bodied versions do not exist in 7mm scale kit form, and there were three different builders of D1745 all of which had detail differences. It's a minefield! Cheers, Mol 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted January 3 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 3 1 hour ago, Mol_PMB said: MSC Dock Labour Coach No.1 was delivered to the MSC on 3rd April 1946. They had bought it from The Rolling Stock Company, Darlington, for £220. That's interesting. I have noted sales of second-hand and worn-out rolling stock recorded in the minutes of the Midland C&W Committee, down to early 1923, but not tried looking for sales by the LMS. A large majority of the Midland sales were to John F. Wake of Darlington, who also bought seconf-hand C&W works machinery - wheel-turning lathes etc. So I wonder if The Rolling Stock Company was successor to J.F. Wake? 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post montyburns56 Posted January 3 Popular Post Share Posted January 3 Durham 1984 by locoman1966 23 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted January 3 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 3 On 01/01/2024 at 16:00, Mol_PMB said: It was. This album may also be of interest on that theme... https://www.flickr.com/photos/50559291@N03/albums/72157716707318451/ These days, the only thing exported from Manchester by ship canal is scrap... Sorry for the thread drift! Would that BMC container have arrived by rail on a conflat? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 4 hours ago, Compound2632 said: Only if it was originally wood-panelled? The general description of 'Period I' etc on p.9 of Vol 2 of the three-part LMS Standard Coaching Stock book makes no specific provision for 'all steel' vehicles - but the tabulation on p.168 gives these as "Period I ( 2-window 'all steel').". 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 17 hours ago, montyburns56 said: Durham 1984 by locoman1966 Would love to know the back story to that one!! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Steven B Posted January 4 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 4 Click the picture and you'll be taken to the Flickr page where all is revealed: Quote 43113 Durham 2nd July 1984 Rare. Rear power car 43112 had been detached and moved into the down siding (Aykley Heads siding ) at Durham station because of a locked axle. Please see other images taken that day in this set. The train continued forward as empty coaching stock with just the leading power car. Note the oil tail lamp! 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted January 4 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4 17 hours ago, montyburns56 said: Durham 1984 by locoman1966 In an alternate universe, that could have been a descendant of Kestrel at one end, and half the number of locos needed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 On 01/01/2024 at 16:00, Mol_PMB said: It was. This album may also be of interest on that theme... https://www.flickr.com/photos/50559291@N03/albums/72157716707318451/ These days, the only thing exported from Manchester by ship canal is scrap... Sorry for the thread drift! Only just spotted your post, thanks for sharing those - the BMC container pic would be September '61 at the earliest as those half hidden Minis will be 997cc Coopers in Smoke Grey with Old English White roofs, or possibly 850cc 'Supers' which shared the contrasting roof and stainless steel door trim with the Cooper models, but were only available for about a year. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mol_PMB Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 17 hours ago, russ p said: Would that BMC container have arrived by rail on a conflat? I can't be sure, but at this time (around 1961) most export freight arrived in Manchester by rail, some may have come by road. If it came by rail, it might have been loaded into an open wagon if it wasn't the right size for a conflat? 35 minutes ago, Rugd1022 said: Only just spotted your post, thanks for sharing those - the BMC container pic would be September '61 at the earliest as those half hidden Minis will be 997cc Coopers in Smoke Grey with Old English White roofs, or possibly 850cc 'Supers' which shared the contrasting roof and stainless steel door trim with the Cooper models, but were only available for about a year. Thanks! Amazing how those little details can help to date the photos. Some other period road vehicles in about the same location in these photos: 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mol_PMB Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 (edited) Anyway, back to trains and prototypes for everything. In the Banger Blue era, everything looked the same, didn't it? Here's a wonderfully mixed rake of vehicles at Derby, from Merfyn Jones on Flickr: I assume the second vehicle is a Blackpool 104 centre car? Mol Edited January 4 by Mol_PMB credit added 14 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D7063 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 hour ago, Mol_PMB said: I can't be sure, but at this time (around 1961) most export freight arrived in Manchester by rail, some may have come by road. If it came by rail, it might have been loaded into an open wagon if it wasn't the right size for a conflat? Thanks! Amazing how those little details can help to date the photos. Some other period road vehicles in about the same location in these photos: In the left of the second picture I see that someone has marked up the '60 ton crane' for the avoidance of doubt!!! I wonder how many large cranes there were to choose from and how much they could lift varied - and also how often the wrong crane was used? Perhaps the marking was added after one too many incidences of 'wrong crane' had occurred!!!! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mol_PMB Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 (edited) 10 minutes ago, D7063 said: In the left of the second picture I see that someone has marked up the '60 ton crane' for the avoidance of doubt!!! I wonder how many large cranes there were to choose from and how much they could lift varied - and also how often the wrong crane was used? Perhaps the marking was added after one too many incidences of 'wrong crane' had occurred!!!! The Manchester Ship Canal had two big floating cranes, the 60 ton and the 250 ton. Prior to the container era, heavy-lift cranes were rare, both on docks and ships. Between them, the two MSC floating cranes loaded very many items of railway rolling stock made in and around Manchester and exported via the MSC. The 250 ton crane survived out of use at Runcorn until 2021, when it was purchased for conversion to a floating restaurant and towed to Newcastle. The plans quickly fell through and it was scrapped last year. Here it is leaving the MSC for the last time (my photo): As you can see if you zoom in, it is marked 'THE 250 TON CRANE'. Mol Edited January 4 by Mol_PMB last line added. 10 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D7063 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said: The Manchester Ship Canal had two big floating cranes, the 60 ton and the 250 ton. Prior to the container era, heavy-lift cranes were rare, both on docks and ships. Between them, the two MSC floating cranes loaded very many items of railway rolling stock made in and around Manchester and exported via the MSC. The 250 ton crane survived out of use at Runcorn until 2021, when it was purchased for conversion to a floating restaurant and towed to Newcastle. The plans quickly fell through and it was scrapped last year. Here it is leaving the MSC for the last time (my photo): As you can see if you zoom in, it is marked 'THE 250 TON CRANE'. Mol Wow - thanks for that Mol!, I will have to see if I can find a picture or two of it at Runcorn, not the sort of thing that you could hide easily! Edited January 4 by D7063 spelling - as usual Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 45 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said: ... The 250 ton crane survived out of use at Runcorn until 2021, when it was purchased for conversion to a floating restaurant ... er ........... how ??!? 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D7063 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 2 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said: er ........... how ??!? I was imagining that the 'hull' (for want of a better term) would be used and the crane part removed and replaced with the restaurant building of some sort. Or they could have balanced a micro eatery on the top of the jib - who knows what they were thinking!!!!! I do remember the famous floating nightclub on the Tyne in Gateshead though - the 'Tuxedo Royale' - it had a revolving dance floor! It looked like a more conventional ship conversion, anyway that's a bit of thread drift for you! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mol_PMB Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 minute ago, D7063 said: I was imagining that the 'hull' (for want of a better term) would be used and the crane part removed and replaced with the restaurant building of some sort. Or they could have balanced a micro eatery on the top of the jib - who knows what they were thinking!!!!! I do remember the famous floating nightclub on the Tyne in Gateshead though - the 'Tuxedo Royale' - it had a revolving dance floor! It looked like a more conventional ship conversion, anyway that's a bit of thread drift for you! I think that was broadly the idea, but it sounded as unlikely as it turned out to be. If it had actually gone ahead it would indeed have been a 'prototype for everything'! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Welly Posted January 11 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 11 Real life fiddle yard - full of withdrawn TGV trains! French video. https://youtu.be/nftTaBfeQTI?si=2X-X0JDShqzpQ1e3&t=25 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Steadfast Posted January 13 Popular Post Share Posted January 13 Western on freight in 2024? Pic linked from my Flickr. As part of its mainline recertification, D1015 'Western Champion' heads a dead in tow 66714 on 6M42 Avonmouth Hanson Cement - Penyffordd, seen passing Hall End near Wickwar. The Western came off in Haresfield loop and continued on back to its home at the Severn Valley Railway light loco. The train was over an hour late at this point, thanks to a points failure at Bristol Parkway. Jo 28 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 14 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 14 23 hours ago, Steadfast said: Western on freight in 2024? Pic linked from my Flickr. As part of its mainline recertification, D1015 'Western Champion' heads a dead in tow 66714 on 6M42 Avonmouth Hanson Cement - Penyffordd, seen passing Hall End near Wickwar. The Western came off in Haresfield loop and continued on back to its home at the Severn Valley Railway light loco. The train was over an hour late at this point, thanks to a points failure at Bristol Parkway. Jo For the sake of those aboard the 1000 I do hope that stock was not restricted to 50/55mph - just the right speed for 'the dreaded 'bounce' on a 1000. Not dangerous but distinctly uncomfortable for anyone on the loco. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishplate Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said: For the sake of those aboard the 1000 I do hope that stock was not restricted to 50/55mph - just the right speed for 'the dreaded 'bounce' on a 1000. Not dangerous but distinctly uncomfortable for anyone on the loco. That's interesting. Did it occur on CWR, or on jointed track ? Or on both? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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