'CHARD Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Too close to call for me, Robert. Judging by the topmost model photo, I could see the green livery band intersecting the wiper pivot, which would be correct. The other mischievous and misleading element is the optical impact of the (slightly caricature) saloon window frames, IMHO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Too close to call for me, Robert. Judging by the topmost model photo, I could see the green livery band intersecting the wiper pivot, which would be correct. The other mischievous and misleading element is the optical impact of the (slightly caricature) saloon window frames, IMHO. But look at the gap between wiper pivot and start of glazing. The issue could be that the window frames are a bit on the thick side thus making the glazed area a bit too small if the outside of the frames is right. Really need to see a model rather than an image. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reevesthecat Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Model rail review scores them at 88% ,only issue raised is the big coupling gap between vehicles. They had the plain blue version to review which means the discrepancies noted on the blue/ grey model would not be as obvious (or non existent to me as I don't know what to look for)! Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravensdmufan Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Looking much better now that the grey area has been adjusted. Side window frames look rather chunky compared with Hornby/Lima but front ends look way better. And of course under frame and mechanism will be superb. All in all it looks a winner. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR(S) Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 The images haven't convinced me. The bottom of the door droplights seem to be in line with the bottom of the glazed area of the bodylights (which should be lower than the droplights) and the top of the cab end windows looks to be lower than the top of the bodylights. I think the lined green one will be the test of the latter issue. Have a look at this one: E50148_Carlisle by robertcwp, on Flickr I haven't seen any close-up pictures of this livery on the model yet, so the best I can offer are Bachmann's images: http://www.Bachmann.co.uk/image_box.php?image=images1/branchline/32-285.jpg&cat_no=32-285&info=0&width=650&height=182 http://www.Bachmann.co.uk/image_box.php?image=images1/branchline/32-286.jpg&cat_no=32-286&info=0&width=650&height=180 Having jumped between various photos, I agree with the door window vs. passenger windows issue, but best I can say on cab window vs. passenger windows is "uncertain". Neither is enough to put me off the model though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR(S) Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Actually, picture of the top lining at http://www.mremag.com/news/article/Bachmann-class-101-2-car-dmu-32-286/18491 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel_H Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Totally agree. A model can be resprayed or detailed with a plethora of aftermarket detailing bits, but if the basics aren't right - then it's a struggle. Doesn't matter which way up down or sideways you look at this - those windows being way out is a major flaw in the appearance of the unit. Quite how Bachmann could get this so wrong after doing a reasonable job on their other DMU's, surprises me. It also interests me to see comments on modellers accepting that Bachmann will be providing separate sprues, with detailing that needs adding by them after purchase. Considering the furor around ViTrains doing the same - is this a sudden change in attitudes? Another thing I've noticed is that, although there are separate handrails around the Guards door, there's moulded grabrails next to the drivers door. I raised this with Bachmann last year at the DEMU showcase, and was told by the rep that this would be the future to drive costs down - and not only could we expect to see moulded handrails all round in future, but sprung buffers would also be replaced by moulded plastic as well. If true, it's sad to see a retro step in detailing for the British market, but this is what happens when a producer has to aim at what the market place are prepared to pay for a model. Personally, I will be interested to see if the Lima/Hornby body can be fittted to the Bachmann chassis, as i had already purchased a shed load of Lima/Hornby bodies with the intention of scratchbuilding a decent chassis. If the Bachmann lump can be made to fit, it will save me a lot of time. cheers Andy It's interesting that there's so much debate about the windows and Andy's 'way out' comment neatly sums up what posters have been saying. This is in contrast to the strange 'ski-jump' treatment of the Class 108 cab roof; if anything's 'way out' then this is bidding strongly, yet it doesn't seem to get mentioned (unless I'm missing something)? Just an observation, no more.... Mel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel_H Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Did anyone ever release a 101 in refurbished white with a blue stripe livery? Or am I going to have to do some modelling!? (I have an old Triang unit to practice on!) You'll definitely need to go modelling! Hornby did a BRCW Class 110 in this scheme, but it seemed to be a poor seller and hung around (new) for ages being remaindered. I'd be surprised if Bachmann did it (unless the Collectors Club does). Or a limited edition; but it would be a brave commission. (Very courageous Minister). Mel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 And of course under frame and mechanism will be superb. Can't argue with that but you can't get more un-prototypical as being unable to see through what was an completely empty guards compartment. For me, the lack of interior lights in this area only emphasises the gigantic motor housing . I'd have liked to have seen Bachmann go a bit more radical in the drive mechanism and use two of their 8' 6" Birkenhead tram power units (Fitted with 12 mm wheels). Prototypical single axle drive per bogie and a completely clear interior to boot. P EDIT: MRE mag states that the motor sits low down enabling a clear view through the windows. I may be interpreting Andy Y's phots wrong but the big block surrounding the motor still appears to be there. Could Andy verify please? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DropTheTap Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 You'll definitely need to go modelling! Hornby did a BRCW Class 110 in this scheme, but it seemed to be a poor seller and hung around (new) for ages being remaindered. I'd be surprised if Bachmann did it (unless the Collectors Club does). Or a limited edition; but it would be a brave commission. (Very courageous Minister). Mel The Bachmann 108 in this livery can still be had for an absolute bargain at Hattons and other places. I wonder if the low sales are due to the addition of a GMPTE logo which somewhat restricts the operating area, or just for the fact that the livery was so short lived? Either way, I'm in agreement: I'd *like* to see it on a 101 but very much doubt we will unless someone comissions it specially. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DropTheTap Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 David Ford has posted some good photos of green Met-Cams with straight lining. This lining style would show whether the Bachmann model really lines up. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/85326-dave-fs-photos-ongoing-more-added-1st-june/page-8&do=findComment&comment=1469211 Having seen the photos of green ones on MREMag, the cab front windows look too low compared to the bodylights. The straight lining style on green (see David Ford photos) would show whether or not things line up properly. Did Bachmann laser scan a real one? I hope they didn't look at the rather less than accurate Cheona book. I'm very pensive to say this, mindful of all the "wait until you see a model in the flesh" comments, but the cab windows look too *small* rather than too low. Seems like they should be deeper at the top. There's also something bugging me about the cab roof dome. I'm looking at the distance from the destination blind to the top of the dome on the model and it appears a little deep. The prototype seemingly has a *flatter* dome roof profile than the model. But now I really could be nitpicking so will buy one to be proven wrong! I *want* this to be good but the general air for me right now is somewhat unsettling. I'm hoping it's just another "Deltic" conundrum... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 I agree with Robert C, all of the door droplights are too deep, the cab windows and main side windows don't line up correctly, so something is at the wrong height or size, this will interrupt some liveries. Also, the overlapping roof panel edge is too pronounced, as are the later added full-length guttering strips. Overall the model looks quite attractive, it just doesn't look quite right to me, the yellow cab highlights the alignment fault, as will any lining on the green examples. My Lima/Limby Met-Cam fleet will now undergo a mid-life refurbishment, just like the real ones. BK Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 I may be interpreting Andy Y's phots wrong but the big block surrounding the motor still appears to be there. Could Andy verify please? The motor bogie assembly is visible towards the centre and it would be necessary to remove the centre seating section if you were to fit a sound speaker in the prescribed manner reducing the seating further. With regard to the windows I'd say wait until you're looking at the real thing rather than excessive enlargements and then judge if it's of personal importance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 It's interesting that there's so much debate about the windows and Andy's 'way out' comment neatly sums up what posters have been saying. This is in contrast to the strange 'ski-jump' treatment of the Class 108 cab roof; if anything's 'way out' then this is bidding strongly, yet it doesn't seem to get mentioned (unless I'm missing something)? Just an observation, no more.... Mel I have never thought that the cab roof dome of the 2-character headcode 108 was quite right but it hasn't prevented me from having 10 108s of both end variants combined, but then I didn't already have a fleet of Lima/Hornby 108s whereas I have Met-Cam units from them. I'm not rushing to buy a 101 and would like to see the model first and see one side by side with a Lima one. Of the initial four versions, the ones that would interest me are the green and blue/grey ones. For blue, I would prefer one with the headcodes. Quite possibly the model will look fine on my layout but I'm in wait and see mode. By the way, I don't think I said the door droplights looked too deep (as in too big) - rather that the bottom seems to line up with the bottom of the bodylight glazing, whereas it should be a bit higher. Possibly less than 1mm difference in 4mm scale, but enough to catch the eye. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny Emily Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 I'm hoping that they do a Regional Railways liveried one, as I remember these plodding their final years around the Manchester area. However, as the MkI Regional Railways liveried coaches didn't seem to be fast sellers (and have never been reissued) I'm wondering if one will appear in these more price-conscious times. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Cram Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 I did see one on the Scalefour stand at Railex and the door droplights are too low and align with the bottom of the windows instead of being central. That's a deal breaker for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonC Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Its the 3-coach versions I'd really prefer to see - Blue and Grey and Strathclyde PTE Orange Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reevesthecat Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Am I right in thinking they were all plain blue at one time so would be seen in all regions in this livery then blue grey followed after? Cheers Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Am I right in thinking they were all plain blue at one time so would be seen in all regions in this livery then blue grey followed after? Cheers Mark Correct - albeit only for a couple of years, the entire fleet was in plain blue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reevesthecat Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Thanks for the clarification Chard, will go for the all over blue while still at the hattons preorder price of £110. Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted June 3, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 3, 2014 I agree with Robert C, all of the door droplights are too deep, the cab windows and main side windows don't line up correctly, so something is at the wrong height or size, this will interrupt some liveries. Also, the overlapping roof panel edge is too pronounced, as are the later added full-length guttering strips. Overall the model looks quite attractive, it just doesn't look quite right to me, the yellow cab highlights the alignment fault, as will any lining on the green examples. My Lima/Limby Met-Cam fleet will now undergo a mid-life refurbishment, just like the real ones. BK Did the Model Rail review pick this up?Given that Dibber is in this community and I think has even contributed to this thread I would have hoped he would have addressed these issues with Bachmann for a definitive view Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 I haven't seen the ModelRail review, but i'm told this wasn't picked out. The too deep door windows is the most obvious no-no, how that detail got past all the test model scrutiny just beggars belief, the other faults are less obvious and more debateable. The Bachmann chassis and mechanism will be an improvement on the Lima/Limby version, but the bodies will be inferior in certain respects, to the models produced a generation ago and more recently by Hornby. Having said that, when Lima first produced their Met-Cam pairs, they came as power-twin chassis and all came with radio roof pods, even the green and blue liveries, which of course was incorrect. A year or two later, they produced the handy centre car, which enabled some 3-car sets to be formed. Later production removed the moulded on roof pods, but neither Lima or Hornby produced a 2-car power/trailer option (AFAIK), which Bachmann will now offer. If money were no object, nitpickers like me could always try grafting the older bodies on to the new chassis? :-) BK Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark54 Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Brian, the door windows don't look too deep to me. If you check the drivers doors, they line up with the front windows. It's the side windows that look slightly too high up the bodyside to me. Therefore the door windows only look too low when compared to the side windows. Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Sorry Mark, i don't agree. Have a look at a Met-Cam in 1970s White/Blue livery, this gives a more obvious contrast. All the door windows should be more shallow and not line up at the bottom with the main side windows, there should be an equal gap at the top and at the bottom of at least 3 inches/1mm. The front cab windows should be at the same height as the main side windows, Bachmann's windows don't line up, so either the cab windows are too low, or the main side windows are too high, or both are slightly wrong? We don't hear much of the previously much-heralded laser scanning equipment these days, but surely they ran a ruler over one of the many preserved 101 units, rather than just rely on drawings? BK Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Here's one of my old banger Lima Met-Cams from ye olde days, this one is a DMC converted to DTC. It shows how the various windows should line up. Note the door windows are not as deep as the main windows, they shouldn't be, in fact these Lima door windows could have been slightly smaller anyway. BK Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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