BigAndy Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 This is an interesting illustration of how priorities differ amongst modellers. I like my models to have the basics right in shape and dimensions, and the fine detail is icing on the cake- there are aftermarket sources for such details. If the basics are wrong but the extra parts are nice, it's like trying to make a silk purse from a sow's ear. Totally agree. A model can be resprayed or detailed with a plethora of aftermarket detailing bits, but if the basics aren't right - then it's a struggle. Doesn't matter which way up down or sideways you look at this - those windows being way out is a major flaw in the appearance of the unit. Quite how Bachmann could get this so wrong after doing a reasonable job on their other DMU's, surprises me. It also interests me to see comments on modellers accepting that Bachmann will be providing separate sprues, with detailing that needs adding by them after purchase. Considering the furor around ViTrains doing the same - is this a sudden change in attitudes? Another thing I've noticed is that, although there are separate handrails around the Guards door, there's moulded grabrails next to the drivers door. I raised this with Bachmann last year at the DEMU showcase, and was told by the rep that this would be the future to drive costs down - and not only could we expect to see moulded handrails all round in future, but sprung buffers would also be replaced by moulded plastic as well. If true, it's sad to see a retro step in detailing for the British market, but this is what happens when a producer has to aim at what the market place are prepared to pay for a model. Personally, I will be interested to see if the Lima/Hornby body can be fittted to the Bachmann chassis, as i had already purchased a shed load of Lima/Hornby bodies with the intention of scratchbuilding a decent chassis. If the Bachmann lump can be made to fit, it will save me a lot of time. cheers Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rembrow Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 I don't have a problem with moulded handrails of the type produced by Bachmann, as the representation of grab rails and door handles is done so finely, with the items being close to the vehicle body and the brass paint finish having no discernible bleed, so it fools most people into believing that the items are separate fitments. BigAndy in the previous posts believes that the drivers grab rails for the 101 being moulded, is a new step. Bachmann did the same with their previous DMU, the Derby Lightweight, which has moulded drivers lower grab rail and upper hand rail, it also has moulded grab rails for the guards door, but they are so finely moulded that even being body coloured you are tricked into believing they are separate fitments. The 2EPB EMU and the Cl 205 DEMU did both have fitted guard's handrails, but I really can't tell the difference and had to test all with a thin piece of paper to check which were moulded and which were separate. Unlike Hornby, Bachmann have mainly used moulded detail for door fittings on their coaches and MU stock, with the added detail, apart from underframes, being filler pipes and roof access handrails, jumper cables for EMUs etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
26power Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/64295-wright-writes/page-52 Post 1294 Hi, the picture of the 101 on Tony Wright's 'Wright Writes' thread (rest of message deleted) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf27 Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/64295-wright-writes/page-52 Post 1294 Its a reference to the production green version. cheers Shane Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
26power Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Not sure why my last message got this: Indecipherable/Unsure of meaning x 1List Simply providing a link to where the picture can be found, rather than just saying a picture is somewhere in a multi page thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenman Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Not sure why my last message got this: Indecipherable/Unsure of meaning x 1 List Simply providing a link to where the picture can be found, rather than just saying a picture is somewhere in a multi page thread. I've no idea why that person found you indecipherable. But you can link direct to an individual post if you want - see the post number in the top right hand corner? Click on that, and the URL for that post will appear. I was very excited to discover this the other day. I need to get out more. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted May 27, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 27, 2014 I've no idea why that person found you indecipherable. But you can link direct to an individual post if you want - see the post number in the top right hand corner? Click on that, and the URL for that post will appear. I was very excited to discover this the other day. I need to get out more. Paul I only have 12 such marks and of those I have been able to track I have privately enquired of all whether there was a problem, a misunderstanding or a mis-hit key. Only one has ever replied and that was to correct a mis-hit. It's not something which worries me but we can at least ask now that we can see who has rated which posts. Now back to the 101 storyline. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted May 27, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 27, 2014 I've still got an MTK one to finish The bachy one looks good in the photo on Tony's thread. I will be happy to run it alongside my Limby one purchased this weekend. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Did anyone ever release a 101 in refurbished white with a blue stripe livery? Or am I going to have to do some modelling!? (I have an old Triang unit to practice on!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted May 27, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 27, 2014 Looking at the pictures of the two green production versions (with whiskers and SYP), it is clear that Bachmann has done a better job with reproducing the aluminium colour of the window surrounds than one the pre-production versions. However, I'm not sure whether in these liveries at least it makes the window height error more or less noticeable. I'm inclined to the view that it improves the look of the top of the windows but accentuates the error at the bottom. Perhaps Bachmann should have painted the raised rib the aluminium colour to make the windows look deeper? Whatever, it's not so off that I will not buy one and I suspect the plain blue version will look better anyway as there's no lining. In case anyone is interested, the Green SYP version is M51179/M56337 Shrewsbury/Aberystwyth and the BR Blue one is E51427/E56380 Newcastle/Hexham. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giz Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 I've still got an MTK one to finish I've got one as well (and a Cravens). Could never get the cast ends to stick to the aluminium bodyshell for more than about a week. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 I've got one as well (and a Cravens). Could never get the cast ends to stick to the aluminium bodyshell for more than about a week. You were lucky to get the two parts to touch in enough places to glue them! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 I put a "funny" icon on Chris's post but I also agree!MTK kits did take rather a lot of work to get them to go together and then stay together! I used to roughen the aluminium ends a bit then put heaps of epoxy glue (Araldite) and try to hold it all together until the glue set. This sometimes took more than one attempt, plus a bit of blue language to help things along. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel gill Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 DEMU Showcase yesterday I had the chance to put side by side the Lima & Bachmann blue & grey 101 , Now colours and depth of grey to one side the main thing that struck me was how heavy looking the painted Bachmann window frames looked agianst the almost dainty Lima finish...the window depths i would say were almost alike..... the better under frame on the Bachmann one made me think of seeing if the lima body will fit the Bachmann chassis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted June 1, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 1, 2014 Loved the green one with BR "whiskers".Coupling between the cars using the same system as Blue Pullman.Now on the boat.apparently. A handsome thing,indeed.Bachmann a presence at DEMU,eager to show their stuff...and talk about it. Missed S.K.and the Hornby stand....so sad. Nice show. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR(S) Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Picture of blue/grey 101 on Black Country Blues layout at DEMU: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/56607-black-country-blues-the-winning-rmweb-project-layout-proposal/?p=1469487 This looks to be a repaint from the original one as it now has black bufferbeams and the grey has been extended further up the body. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 David Ford has posted some good photos of green Met-Cams with straight lining. This lining style would show whether the Bachmann model really lines up. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/85326-dave-fs-photos-ongoing-more-added-1st-june/page-8&do=findComment&comment=1469211 Having seen the photos of green ones on MREMag, the cab front windows look too low compared to the bodylights. The straight lining style on green (see David Ford photos) would show whether or not things line up properly. Did Bachmann laser scan a real one? I hope they didn't look at the rather less than accurate Cheona book. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted June 2, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 2, 2014 David Ford has posted some good photos of green Met-Cams with straight lining. This lining style would show whether the Bachmann model really lines up. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/85326-dave-fs-photos-ongoing-more-added-1st-june/page-8&do=findComment&comment=1469211 Having seen the photos of green ones on MREMag, the cab front windows look too low compared to the bodylights. The straight lining style on green (see David Ford photos) would show whether or not things line up properly. Did Bachmann laser scan a real one? I hope they didn't look at the rather less than accurate Cheona book. I agree with you on the straight lining. If the windows are wrong, perhaps Bachmann won't produce it! As to scanning, I understood Bachmann scaled up its N gauge version and that is apparently correct. So it seems more likely to be a error at the tool making stage of the OO model that wasn't picked up by Bachmann when they checked the first shots. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 I've had one of the first blue/grey review samples over the course of the weekend and it's noteworthy as it's variation on the images I've previously shown on the blue/grey model. The model features Driving Motor Brake Second E51217 and Driving Trailer Second (Lavatory) E54364 as allocated to Norwich in the late 1980s toward the end of its life. It's important to bear in mind there are variations within the corporate blue/grey livery dependent on which works carried out any refurbishment and/or livery work. As numbered and from that era the livery as applied is marginally incorrect with a large double arrow and a grey panel with white lining which extends below the line of the door bump stops - an image showing the unit numbered is here https://flic.kr/p/im5FW2 whereas the livery is correct for a differently numbered Norwich unit as shown here http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/dmu/h924A67B#h924a67b - we're only talking a millimetre or so difference in the positioning of the lower edge of the grey but as I said earlier its important to look at specific liveries when considering any window placement issues. In truth I don't personally find anything offensive in any window positions, it certainly looks like a MetCamm and it runs beautifully around my test oval and pointwork. The decoration standard is superb and there's an awful lot of great detail particularly low down on the model and on the roof areas. I'd certainly have one but bear in mind not all blue/grey examples are the same and it would be a simple renumbering to get a number/livery match for this model. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR(S) Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 I'm glad Bachmann have made this alteration to the grey band and it was the only sticking point for me. To me, this looks like a 101, I'm now happy with the execution of this particular livery and my money's ready to go! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan452 Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 I've had one of the first blue/grey review samples over the course of the weekend and it's noteworthy as it's variation on the images I've previously shown on the blue/grey model. The model features Driving Motor Brake Second E51217 and Driving Trailer Second (Lavatory) E54364 as allocated to Norwich in the late 1980s toward the end of its life. It's important to bear in mind there are variations within the corporate blue/grey livery dependent on which works carried out any refurbishment and/or livery work. As numbered and from that era the livery as applied is marginally incorrect with a large double arrow and a grey panel with white lining which extends below the line of the door bump stops - an image showing the unit numbered is here https://flic.kr/p/im5FW2 whereas the livery is correct for a differently numbered Norwich unit as shown here http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/dmu/h924A67B#h924a67b - we're only talking a millimetre or so difference in the positioning of the lower edge of the grey but as I said earlier its important to look at specific liveries when considering any window placement issues. In truth I don't personally find anything offensive in any window positions, it certainly looks like a MetCamm and it runs beautifully around my test oval and pointwork. The decoration standard is superb and there's an awful lot of great detail particularly low down on the model and on the roof areas. I'd certainly have one but bear in mind not all blue/grey examples are the same and it would be a simple renumbering to get a number/livery match for this model. 101aS.jpg 101bS.jpg 101cS.jpg 101dS.jpg 101hS.jpg Metcam1s.jpg But does it have sprung buffers? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Well that looks like the beast from where I'm sitting. So if it works in B&G I reckon I'll be happy with the plain greens and blues... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waverley West Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Very nice indeed. A couple of blue/grey examples and one blue example will be winging their way towards Waverley West methinks. I hope the windows rattle too... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 I hope the windows rattle too... CV101? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 The images haven't convinced me. The bottom of the door droplights seem to be in line with the bottom of the glazed area of the bodylights (which should be lower than the droplights) and the top of the cab end windows looks to be lower than the top of the bodylights. I think the lined green one will be the test of the latter issue. Have a look at this one: E50148_Carlisle by robertcwp, on Flickr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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