Hornby Mk2e coaches

[Bob Reid]

It would even pass for the earlier new or re-lined ferodo faceplate - for all of err.... a few weeks. It looks like they've taken the lead from the ex-works pic of a refurbed Anglia MkII from the cover of Michael Harris's book - which would also explain the brilliant white bi-fold doors etc. Better they had just left the faceplate in black as on the other types and painted the doors only.

['CHARD]

I don't have need of these vehicles but irrespective of that I fail to see the logic that the massive unacceptable error with the solebar, quite as venal a crime as Bachmann's Class 25 invented solebar, is somehow a direct result of manufacturing the product to a price.

I don't buy this - it is an error, pure and simple. And it would have cost no more to get it right.

[MJI]

It is possible to be accurant and affordable, you leave off details as an example. Moulded handrails, no lighting, but make sure the basic thing looks accurate. Everyone on a budget is happy.

[Waverley47708]

Not sure I am buying the cost agreement, unless the imaginary sole bar made them cheaper to make that is. Would not imagine getting the blue line above the grey correctly applied would have added to the cost.

 

Am wondering how much better then the Hornby version of the Mk 2Ds they are.

Edited December 7, 2014 by Waverley47708

[JSpencer]

Not sure I am buying the cost agreement, unless the imaginary sole bar made them cheaper to make that is. Would not imagine getting the blue line above the grey would have added to the cost.

Am wondering how much better then the Hornby version of the Mk 2Ds they are.

Overall they are better than the 2Ds, much finer and crisper moulding. They look perfectly fine when running with Bachmann,s mk2s whereas the 2Ds sit higher than them (both coupling and roof heights).

[Brian Kirby]

I wasn't entirely happy with my replacement fantasy island Roe-Vac vents, i think i made them too long and too bulky (high), the real things are quite flat and aerodynamic, rather like an upturned dinner plate or frisbee. So i filed them down and cut the ends back, then did a bit of re-shaping, next time i'll use 30 thou plastic. I've also re-painted the end gangways, the end door colour for 2Es is often quoted as fawn or mushroom, i couldn't find a good match in my paint box, so i mixed up some stone colour and white, and ended up with "bleedin' Magnolia", which is close enough, but next time i'll try brown and white. The rest of the gangway is now black.   

 

                                                                               Cheers, Brian.

 

 

[Bob Reid]

I have every confidence that before long Mr Flood will be adding some of these to his fleet - no matter what he says here.....

 

you can't keep a (model) coachbuilder down!

[Flood]

Unlikely Bob, I've spent this week putting individual numbers on 16t mineral wagons ("the guy's a fool" I hear Eric Morecombe saying).

 

Kirkhill already has an excellent rake of Mk2E stock (thanks to Glenn's spraying) and I have now focused my thoughts of St Pancras - Sheffield rakes towards the Bachmann model. As I said a few posts ago if I start saving up for Bachmann Mk2F stock now (and not buying Bachmann BAA wagons, whoops) then buying 1 or 2 rakes of Bachmann coaches when they are released will not be a problem.

Edited December 16, 2014 by Flood

[tomstaf]

Hi, just cottoned onto this thread. It's good to seem people attacking the roe-vacs. For anyone looking at doing more or having a go you can get some scale 3D printed ones. A couple of years ago with permission I measured one of the vents. Lyneux turned it into a 3D model and you can buy them from Shapeways http://www.shapeways.com/model/1005095/roevac-roof-vents-4mm-v1-150-pieces.html?li=search-results-1&materialId=61

 

Here's a pic of a test print.

 

Cheers

 

Tom

Edited December 7, 2014 by tomstaf

[Brian Kirby]

Here's my first FO almost done, body/chassis join corrected, still got to paint the roof vents or respray the roof. I've amended the bogies to the earlier pattern, by filing the hydraulic dampers/shock absorbers flat, then part drilling a fine hole to represent the eyelet linkage on a friction damper. Another problem were the loo windows, as Bob said, they should be white. These are actually white inside, but painted on the back of the incorrectly extended tinted glazing, which gives the dull grey effect. There's no point scraping off the paint on the inside, and i didn't fancy all the extra work of replacing the plug-in windows here. So i adopted a frontal attack, first i tried applying white insulation tape inlaid and then cut to size, it wasn't too bad, but i ended up with some thin gaps here and there, which i corrected with ink and paint, but the overall finish was a bit too matt. Next i considered shiny 5 thou white plasticard, but it's very fiddly stuff and again difficult to avoid gaps and faults, and glue neatly. In the end i laid the coach flat on it's side and hand-painted directly on to the tinted window with satin white, a bit high risk, but it seemed to work, being careful to avoid bits and putting enough paint on for one good coat, and leaving the coach side flat for several hours to avoid rippling. The paint has the advantage of filling the surrounding gap as well. You can see i've also amended the door tops. Can you spot the curtains? Sorry about the specks of dust in the close-ups, static makes them cling to the body after all the various filing jobs. BK   (BTW, Thanks Tom, we've had a gander at the 3D vents earlier in the thread, they are very impressive.)

 

[Flood]

That lower photo from Tom partly shows where Hornby have gone so wrong.

 

The Roevac has had the photo taken along the length which has fore-shortened it considerably. It looks virtually square which, of course, it isn't when you look at a normal roof photo or even the Shapeway 3D prints.

[Brian Kirby]

I agree Flood/Graham,

    The Roe-Vac is a very deceptive shape, looking different from various angles. The Airfix interpretation is a bit puny, but at least about the right length, and even comes with the baseplate. The Lima 2F don't have the baseplate, are again a bit puny (narrow), but are the correct length. The Hornby 2E ones are from outer space, being seriously over-width, although the rest of it ain't bad and can be saved if in the correct position (BSO and TSO), i reckon the Chinese mould-maker mis-interpreted the drawings provided? I don't like the Southern Pride offering. The real things are very rounded and air-smoothed, you can just about make out in Tom's last photo, where the middle rises up as a dome. I've tried to copy this, but of course my poor photography can't pick out any detail on a plain piece of white plastic, maybe when they're painted? Do we know for sure that all Roe-Vac vents were the same size?       BK

[Bob Reid]

 Do we know for sure that all Roe-Vac vents were the same size?       BK

 

There's been nothing to indicate otherwise Brian - identical to those on the Mk3a's built at the same time as the last of the Mk2f's - they were pretty much a universal fitting.....

[tomstaf]

(BTW, Thanks Tom, we've had a gander at the 3D vents earlier in the thread, they are very impressive.)

 

Hi,

 

Thanks, forgotten I'd posted them earlier, my bad memory...

Here's a side on pic showing how oblong they are.

 

Here's some shots and dimensions of the dampers.

Cheers

 

Tom

Edited December 7, 2014 by tomstaf

[Brian Kirby]

Here're are some pics with the lights back on and curtains painted in. Many thanks to Jonathan 452 for finding the interior shot of the FO (see post #181), i pondered the curtain colour, it seemed more red than the usual orange, but not as red as the steward's jackets. Careful and repeated study of the blouse worn by the attractive girl (Dolly Bird in 1970s parlance), revealed that to be orange, so i opted for Humbrol HR137 Vermillion for the drapes. When normally tied back (like in real photo), you won't see much of the curtain from outside, just the top corner, in fact you see far more of the opposite curtain inside (at least when the lights are on). I left these table tops in the all-over ginger brown, the next FO can have white table cloths, for marshalling next to the catering car, i'd imagine it was only for serving breakfast that more than one FO was laid out with cloths? For all their faults, i'd still say these Hornby air-cons have a very nice shape to them, particularly the tumbleunder or belly, plus some nicely moulded bogies and underframe detail.    

 

                                                                                    Cheers, Brian.

 

 

[Bob Reid]

I have to say Brian those shots are a convincing enough reason for having the vehicles lit and the antimacassars just lift it that little extra.... 

[MJI]

Now Brian has worked on them they look as good as they should have come out of the box

[Brian Kirby]

Thanks Bob and MJI,

        Looking at that interior photo, i was wondering if they were still called "anti-macassars", these then-modern seats show removable head pads, held by straps, whereas the originals were linen cloth covers? They do the same job, so it hardly matters, and we all know what we are talking about. Another thought about Roe-Vac roof vents, wasn't there a firm called Roe, that built bus bodies? Perhaps these vents could also be found on road vehicles?      BK

[Brian Kirby]

I've just done a quick Google search and found a German firm called "Roediger Vacuum", who seem to deal in waste removal using vacuum pressure and similar.  

Their website is titled Roevac.com., could this be the firm that supplied the vents?

 

http://www.roevac.com/page/en                                                 BK

[wombatofludham]

 Another thought about Roe-Vac roof vents, wasn't there a firm called Roe, that built bus bodies? Perhaps these vents could also be found on road vehicles?      BK

 

Quite possibly, in this link there is a review of a new Roe lightweight bus body with RoeVac ventilation

 

http://archive.commercialmotor.com/article/30th-april-1954/80/new-light-roe-body-for-aec-reliance-a-a-lightweigh

 

The trademark dates from 1949

 

http://uk.trademarkdirect.co.uk/roevac-683019

 

And if you have too much time on your hands, there's a patent trail for RoeVac vents here

 

http://patent.ipexl.com/assignee/roevac_air_extractors_1.html

 

Isn't the internet fun?

[Brian Kirby]

Thanks Wombatofludham,

     That seems to clinch it, quite an old British firm then, and possibly fitted to buses as well? The german Roediger Vacuum find must be a red herring. I'm not enough of an anorak to read every last detail, but it's good to get a bit of background information.

 

                                                                                Cheers, Brian.

[Brian Kirby]

Here are a few more pics, showing a TSO and BSO that i'm working on, including correction of the height of the grey panel and amendment of the roof vents. Both have been rebuilt below, using the same method as before, the BSO has the added complication of needing the two pairs of middle steps lowered.     BK

 

[Bob Reid]

My mistake Brian - headrest pads not antimacassars.......

 

I'm sure it's co-incidence with the name "Roe" -the bus one originates from the the Leeds Coachbuilder - Charles Roe. but the Roevac vents used on the bus and by BR were from the company Roevac Extractors Ltd. (later Roevac Bell) of Manchester and it's inventor John Roe.....  Unless of course they were related!

[wombatofludham]

My mistake Brian - headrest pads not antimacassars.......

 

I'm sure it's co-incidence with the name "Roe" -the bus one originates from the the Leeds Coachbuilder - Charles Roe. but the Roevac vents used on the bus and by BR were from the company Roevac Extractors Ltd. (later Roevac Bell) of Manchester and it's inventor John Roe.....  Unless of course they were related!

 

The RoeVac patents are registered to John James Augustus Roe and the company RoeVac was incorporated in 1952, a few years after Charles H Roe coachbuilders were bought by ACV.  There doesn't appear to be any direct connection between the companies, so it could just be a co-incidence, or it might be J.J.A. Roe is a descendant of Charles H Roe and used his lolly from Associated Commercial Vehicles to fund his new business.  Perhaps someone out there knows if the two firms are linked?

[Waverley West]

Here are a few more pics, showing a TSO and BSO that i'm working on, including correction of the height of the grey panel and amendment of the roof vents. Both have been rebuilt below, using the same method as before, the BSO has the added complication of needing the two pairs of middle steps lowered.     BK

 

CIMG4683.JPG

CIMG4684.JPG

CIMG4685.JPG

 

I can't help thinking that if Hornby's effort had looked like Brian's, I'd have bought at least a rake of them by now.