RMweb Gold Anotheran Posted July 1, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 1, 2015 Reading further through my MRJ backnumbers, there was a latter from Paul Bartlett correcting some points in the article in mineral wagons - including comments on the positioning of the diagonal stripes - and then later there was an article on the various rebuilds (but may be outside your time frame) and another on modelling the wagons. There's not a lot outside my timeframe... 1906 to 1973. Hence me having both a Python in the 1920s and BR 16-ton minerals in the late 60s, early 70s. Though not all at the same time of course, and with suitable changes to signage, people and vehicles (and at least one of the buildings) in between. So anything on any of the rolling stock that I've been working on is welcome. I appreciate that these are well outside of your time frame (and Chris') so I very much appreciate the attention you're lavishing on the thread while I go an about these nasty modern wagons Kind regards, Neil 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Anotheran Posted July 1, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 1, 2015 (edited) However a word of caution when applying transfers directly onto primer some transfers wont last long when applied to it! Most like a glossy surface!! So why am I quoting the same part of the same post from Shaun? You guessed it. Only 48 hours after being applied one of the stripes has come loose from the primer. So now I have a bit of a quandary. Do I try again after painting a small stripe of gloss varnish over where the decal is to go, or do I bite the bullet and attempt to paint my diagonal stripe? Thanks Shaun for the comment. Although it was after I'd applied the decal (because I was too impatient to wait for more than one answer to my original question) it means I know the reason that it's come loose, and can act accordingly! Help... So my next question is... what paint should I use on the Python (and indeed others)? I have the Railmatch GWR brown which is the right colour, but it's a matt finish. Should I switch to gloss finish, then apply the decals, then spray with a matt varnish, or should I use the Railmatch, spray with gloss varnish, apply decals then spray with matt, or does your warning only apply to primer because it's an even rougher surface than a standard matt? As I'm new to this I'm very keen to know what others do. When I was a kid I build model planes, and (other than my red arrow Gnat) they all had matt finishes and I don't remember having decal problems then. I also never primed them. Kind regards, Neil Edited July 1, 2015 by Anotheran 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Anotheran Posted July 1, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 1, 2015 (edited) While waiting for anyone to help me out on my previous plea I will post some more progress from this evening. Firstly, yet another lesson learned. It was very obvious, or should have been. When spraying primer I masked off the windows and the bearings... but not the Kadees!! So now I have stiff Kadees on the mineral wagon. The Python's not quite so bad. But at a first look I'm not sure they're salvageable. So they may need to come off and be replaced with new ones - a rather expensive mistake! From now on I'll be building the rolling stock and painting it before attaching the couplings. Which will solve the problem here, and also provide better views for photographs. However, this evening I sprayed the roof of the Python. I figured I'd do that first and have to worry less about masking the sides and ends as it will be easier to mask the roof to spray the sides. It may be too late, but I remembered to mask the Kadees too! This is the first time I've used the airbrush for anything other than track grime on DE. So I didn't really know what I was doing. I thinned the acrylic down, and from the look of the first coat I rather overdid the thinning! So for the second coat I used neat acrylic and practised a bit more on a bit of paper. The end result was a much better finish, which I'm happy with. I'll need to touch up the ends of the roof by brush once I've done the sides. However, I'm going to do some more research on what paint I should be using with decals, unless someone answers my question above, before I do the sides and ends. So for now this is where the Python stops. Kind regards, Neil Edited June 13, 2022 by Anotheran Adding back images lost by site change 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ChrisN Posted July 1, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 1, 2015 Neil, I cannot be certain about the decals but if you need a gloss finish could you put gloss varnish under where they are going to go? I assume they do not come with instructions? Er, try looking here. Just thought, why not Google it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted July 1, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 1, 2015 Whatever you do underneath, my experience (bitter) is that you need to put on a top coat of varnish or decals/transfers will do their best to come adrift. I have too many wagons which I lettered while abroad and having no varnish available, which now have half letters in various places - mind you some of the transfers were 30 years old, but it happened with newer ones too. Jonathan 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Anotheran Posted July 1, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 1, 2015 Thanks Chris and Jonathan. I'll read through the article and find some matt varnish to put on as a top coat. Once I've worked out what to do with the one that has come loose. Thanks again for the very quick feedback to my problem Kind regards, Neil 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Sasquatch Posted July 2, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 2, 2015 Hi Neil. You should be ok with the Railmatch paint as a base. I have had a few lift off (I use 99% HMRS presfix types!!) but I doubt it was the paint. The problem with primer is that it isn't strictly speaking paint! Belt and braces approach would be best and go for some varnish. My 1% of stock that is decorated with waterslide types has had varnish applied first as Chris suggested and lesson learned as per Jonathan! Regards Shaun. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Anotheran Posted July 2, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) Well as the one stripe had fallen off the 16-ton mineral I decided to bite the bullet and remove the second one so that I could reposition them as per the post from Jock a few days ago. In the meantime I've purchased a bottle of Micro Sol. So having reposition them (which required cutting their length down slightly as their full length fills the diagonal, which I saw as strange given that it should only go up to the top of the door) I then painted over some Micro Sol to fix them on the rough surface of the primer. While I was doing that I also painted the information boxes with Micro Sol to be sure, even though they are fixed to proper matt black paint, not primer. The end result looks like this: I'll give them a day to set completely and then I'll spray the wagons with Humbrol Matt varnish. I have to admit that I'm rather glad that the stripe fell off as after Jock's comment I wasn't really happy with them. I think they look a lot better now. So a big thank you to Jock for the comment on the strip position, and Shaun for warning me about the decals on primer so that I could find a solution for it. Kind regards, Neil Edited June 13, 2022 by Anotheran Adding back images lost by site change 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Anotheran Posted July 2, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) OK, so I didn't give them a day... I only gave them eight hours, but it was very warm today. But I know it's my fault if they don't stay fixed because I didn't leave them long enough to set solid. I sprayed the 16-ton mineral with a light coat of matt varnish and took some very close up shots of the detail to see what the end result is really like. The first of these gives a good view of the effect of the Micro Sol. You can see that the stripe has really moulded itself into the rough texture of the wagon surface, and the matt varnish has made the shiny coating of the decal pretty much disappear, so I won't need to peel it off. It now really does have the effect of being painted on to the surface. I didn't get the black rectangle very square on this side though! The second shows the stripe on the other side. The decal surface is a little more visible, probably a slightly thinner varnish coat, but although you can see it here, it's practically invisible to the naked eye. It also shows the painted white brake handle The final one is the second information box. I got the black rectangle much better on that side. The three photos as a whole certainly make me happy with the job. Given that they are a lot bigger than real size they show a lot of detail in the under-frame as well as the decals. It's definitely a nice little model. Edited June 13, 2022 by Anotheran Adding back images lost by site change 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Anotheran Posted July 2, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) After finishing work this afternoon I thought I'd have a go at advancing the Python (as I needed something to distract me from spraying varnish on the 16-ton mineral before the decals had enough time to set properly with the Micro Sol). So it was on with the masking again, this time on the roof. I definitely think I did it the right way round. The roof is much easier to mask than the body and ends (though I will do as Shaun suggested and leave the next roof loose which means it can be painted separately anyway!) Once sprayed with two coats (this time neat paint, none of this over thinning like I did with the first coat on the roof) I left it to dry and went to watch some tennis, and a film. Then, just before coming to post this, I removed the masking tape from the roof and saw the result. Not too bad, but it definitely needed a bit of touching up around the edges of the roof. So out came the 2.5 x magnifiers and the 000 brush. Once done I removed the masking tape from the couplings, and also from the windows to take another photo. All that's left now on this is the under-frame to be painted black, the decals to be applied, a coat of matt varnish and then weathering (also needed on the mineral). While typing that sentence it also dawned on me that removing the masking from the couplers and the windows was rather premature as they need to be masked for the varnish! Ah well, another lesson learned maybe. That's all for tonight, but another productive day for me. Kind regards, Neil Edited June 13, 2022 by Anotheran Adding back images lost by site change 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Anotheran Posted July 3, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 3, 2015 (edited) Today was the end of the Python, with the exception of a coat of matt varnish. First I painted the under-frame black, which took about fifteen minutes. Then, after a suitable time for the under-frame to dry I applied the decals, which took me almost an hour... and there's only six each side! The final touch was a dab of white paint on the brake lever. The end result is rather pleasing to the eye. I'm not going to post the photo I took of the other side as it's identical. Well almost: "Python. A" is half a letter to the right and the running number is about quarter of a digit to the left. The G, W and Tare are amazingly in precisely the same position, while the weight is so close I couldn't estimate the difference other than a very small amount. So this couple of weeks has been quite productive for me in that I've completed two wagons from kit to ready for the track. Given that they were my first kits I'm very pleased with them and have also learned a number of lessons along the way. I know many of you have built lots of kits, but I hope that my detailed description of the route I took to get there wasn't too dull. It certainly prompted some comments from which I have learned and for which I am grateful! That's all for now, goodnight! Kind regards, Neil Edited June 13, 2022 by Anotheran Adding back images lost by site change 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Hi Neil, Long time no catch up, sorry! Good job on building these recent kits, they look great! I only wish I'd looked in earlier as I would have posted to the effect of "Don't paint those Kadee's"! I actually like to burnish the 'mating' surfaces of each knuckle and lubricate them with the genuine Kadee powdered graphite, although the stuff sold for R/C cars is also good. May I suggest that in future, you fit the Kadee's after the paintwork is completed as even a bit of "tack" from the masking tape may affect their operation. You certainly don't want paint getting into the 'box' either as that needs to be completely smooth and lubricated for perfect operation. The good news is that being metal, you can simply soak the painted ones in paint-stripper then clean all traces of paint and gunk off and they should be good again. Can you tell I have modelled US outline for some 25 years or more!?! Even though the patent ran out on Kadee's and many copies have been made - there is still nothing to match the "Original and best"! Cheers, John. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Anotheran Posted July 4, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 4, 2015 Thanks John, Some time ago I did think about it, but then forgot about them until after I'd sprayed the wagons. I'll now have to take them apart and de-paint as you described as they are distinctly the worse for wear. Actually one of the Python ones is still OK, and the second is close, but both on the minerals are definitely sticky, which won't work at all! Definitely a lesson learned as I've also sealed the gear boxes with solvent rather than using screws... I thought they'd be more secure, but now I need to disassemble! That's a job for another weekend as for the next week I'm away from home, so any updates here will have to be my usual waffle rather than proper modelling Can't say I'm looking forward to pulling the Kadees apart, but worst case I loose a fiver on two unsalvageable pairs, and I won't do it again! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Hi Neil, Sorry for the delayed thought processes here but I've quite a few spare Kadee "pockets" or boxes, the two piece item that assembles up into the complete unit! If you PM me your address, I'll pop a set into the post for you, FOC! When building US boxcar kits or even, when replacing copies of Kadees, I didn't need to replace the boxes and must have thrown dozens of boxes away! D'oh! Cheers, John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Anotheran Posted July 5, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 5, 2015 (edited) If you PM me your address, I'll pop a set into the post for you, FOC! John, Thank you very much for your very kind offer. Having looked at them I suspect that I'll wreck them when taking them apart. I've sent my address by PM. Thank you. Kind regards, Neil Edited July 5, 2015 by Anotheran 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted July 6, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 6, 2015 If you are looking for prototype photos of 16 ton minerals to inspire your weathering, there is a thread on the topic here in the Modelling musings section. Lots of photos and now up to post 2136. Jonathan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Anotheran Posted July 6, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 6, 2015 Thanks Jonathan. I shall look at that thread. I've also already spent a lot of time looking at the Paul Bartlett site that you referred me to previously. Kind regards, Neil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Anotheran Posted October 27, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 27, 2015 (edited) Hmm. It's been almost four months since I posted on either here or DE. What with weddings, funerals, the odd holiday and lots of rugby there's not been much in the way of action on the layouts themselves. But when I've had a couple of hours to spare here and there I have moved on a bit on the rolling stock side. John (Allegheny1600) kindly sent me some Kadee gear boxes to replace the ones that I'd gunged up with paint (a lesson learned there) so a couple of weeks ago I finally set about removing the ones from the 16-ton mineral and the CCT. They were a pain to get off as I'd used solvent to fix them in securely! They still need a bit of work to provide the smooth base for the new ones, but at least the defunct boxes are now gone with the metal bits saved to be treated with paint remover to get them back in action. Thanks again John for both the advice and the generous donation of the replacement parts! Kind regards, Neil Edited June 13, 2022 by Anotheran Adding back images lost by site change 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Anotheran Posted October 27, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 27, 2015 (edited) So having removed the clogged Kadee boxes I decided it was time to start some more kits. I've managed to get quite a set of unfinished kits on the shelf and wanted to do something about it. I could, of course, continued with my rake (so far a single wagon!) of BR 16 ton minerals, but I fancied doing something different. So out camb the BR 22 ton tube wagon (Parkside Dundas kit PC55. As with the mineral and the CCT I have enjoyed puting this kit together. Starting off with a box that's square on my shiny new tile kit building surface... Then it was a case of adding the sole bars, brake gear and wheels... Finally the buffers and coupling hooks gave me the finished, unpainted, model... This one has been the easiest of the kits so far. Although for wagons the price difference isn't as much as for vans etc I think I'll be doing quite a few wagon kits in the future as it's very rewarding to have a completed wagon after just a couple of hours work. I'm going to build a few more before I do a mass paint run, and I will only add the Kadees after that (See I really have learned something!). So for now that's the tube wagon complete. Edited June 13, 2022 by Anotheran Adding back images lost by site change 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Anotheran Posted October 27, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 27, 2015 (edited) After my success with the tube wagon I thought I'd try for the production line approach. This would have been an even better idea if it had been with the rest of my 16 ton minerals. But no, I wanted something new again. To be fair one of them is a 16 ton mineral, but it's the riveted type (Diag 109) - Parkside kit PC22. The second kit was a GWR Mink D - Parkside kit PC38. Both went together neatly and easily again with virtually no fettling to remove surplus plastic. The Mink D took a little more effort to get it square, but I got there in the end. I like the detail on the finished models from these Parkside kits. I know that there are improvements that can be made and I do look at threads like Jason's as to what can be done better, but for now I'm happy with just getting a decent amount of rolling stock available. The two completed items. Another lesson learned here... the roof on the Mink D is not fixed down. I'm yet to decide how I'm going to fit it, but I'm taking Shaun's advice on it and leaving it loose. So that was where I was by the weekend. Saturday was Aidan's birthday, so no modelling was done at the weekend itself as we went over for a family day. This week I'm down in London and for the very first time I've brought a kit with me to build in the evenings in the hotel. Another 16 ton mineral I hear you ask as it's about time the rake was continued... No, it's a GWR N13 horse box (Parkside PC55). If I actually get it done in the hotel then I'll post some more soon. In a couple of weeks or so the diary starts to slacken off so I hope to get back to the layouts themselves. DE is in urgent need of some servo drivers... Kind regards, Neil Edited June 13, 2022 by Anotheran Adding back images lost by site change 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ChrisN Posted October 27, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 27, 2015 Neil, Glad to see that you have time again at last. Wagon kits are fun, even if I have not done that many of them for a while. Will you spray indoors or wait for the spring? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Anotheran Posted October 27, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 27, 2015 Will you spray indoors or wait for the spring? For Christmas last year, now a full ten months ago, I got a spray booth... I should probably try it out before we get to Christmas this year or people may stop buying me presents... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Hi Neil, You're welcome buddy! Always glad to help out and it's great to see you working on wagon kits again. I must get doing some myself this winter. Cheers, John. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jock67B Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Great to see you back modelling Neil, some lovely clean workmanship. Kind regards, Jock. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Anotheran Posted October 29, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 29, 2015 (edited) So yesterday evening I left the office at seven leaving me some time at the hotel to make a start on the kit I'd brought down to London with me. Here it is; my travelling modelling box, complete with bubble wrap to protect the part completed model on its journey home... When opening it up I realised that this is significantly more complex than the kits that I've done before. The Python was previously the most difficult. Tipping out the pieces I realised that I didn't have all of the tools I'd need as brass wire doesn't cut easily with a scalpel even though I'd thought to bring two spare blades! Having said that, the complexity means that I won't get to the wire bits until I get home anyway, so I made a start with the bits that I can do, working through the instructions as normal. I'd also not brought a rule, so my cutting of the glazing was done by simply holding it up to the aperture and marking it with the scalpel, then cutting as straight as I could. It wasn't perfectly square at all the corners, but there's enough play in the recess for it not to be seen. Having only brought solvent with me I've also got a bit of frosting at the edges, but it's not very visible, so I think I'll live with it. If it does start to irritate me in the future I'll be able to replace it as I won't be fixing the roof on permanently. The last bit that I completed last night was attaching the sole bars and end stocks. This resulted in what is already looking quite a neat model. Please ignore the mess around the smaller of the two windows. That was the result of me not spotting soon enough that I was fixing the glazing into the outside recess instead of the inside one! I'll clean it up before any painting occurs as it looks a lot worse in the photo that I thought it was. So at the end of the evening I had a wagon that runs smoothly (albeit not on rails as I didn't bring any) and I've added a couple of things to the list that need to be taken with me when I take a kit away from home. Still some way to go with this kit, but I'm very much enjoying it. Edited June 13, 2022 by Anotheran Adding back images lost by site change 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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