Newcastle Emlyn - Early goods rolling stock

[ChrisN]

Neil,

There is nothing like building a plastic kit, great fun.  When PECO announced R-T-R for 009 I thought, 'Who would want that when you can build a kit'.  I just need plastic ones for the Cambrian now.

 

Oh, yes, one sided brakes, so 19th century!

[Anotheran]

Oh, yes, one sided brakes, so 19th century!

 

Maybe... but these are BR 16-ton mineral wagons built in the 1950s! They still look good though

[Anotheran]

Well, as promised yesterday I put the door springs on to the 16-ton mineral, and added the Kadees. The first picture is an extreme close up of the brake mechanism and door spring (which I managed to bend without breaking it like the brake handle). Given that it is so close I'm pleased that there aren't too many apparent problems. Though it does make me think that I may put a brake cross rod in (there isn't one in the kit) which would be a fiddly job as it would need to be split where it goes through the shoe mechanism (which is more in-board than it really should be to be in line with the 00 gauge wheels - I can hear Jason now "....narrow gauge... EM...").

 

 

And to finish off this wagon (except the painting and transfers) the Kadees were fitted and a photo taken. It's now fully cured and tested on both the test track and DE. Smooth running and working couplers; so I'm happy with it!

 

 

It's been a productive weekend of modelling (by my standards) and I even spent a happy hour or so over at the Churnet Valley Railway and drove an old NCB diesel coal shunter back and forth into a siding. But more of that with a few pictures tomorrow, probably in the Lounge.

Regards, Neil

 

 

Edited June 13, 2022 by Anotheran
Adding back images lost by site change

[Sasquatch]

Hi Neil great stuff BTW.

 

If you are looking for a little variety there are two 16 tonners LNER & LMS styles in the Cambrian range. These are without the top flap doors. Construction is a little different but nothing you couldn't handle and you'll need to source the wheels and bearings.  Both types were introduced in the 1940s and construction continued under BR. Some lasted right up to the 1970s!

 

The 16 ton mineral wagon is a vast subject covering many thousands of wagons so variation in a train would be the order of the day if it's a bit of authenticity your looking for!

 

Regards Shaun.   

[Sasquatch]

Have just had a good catch up  read through Doxey End.

That 2ozs will help no end with stabilizing the wagons over those uncoupling magnets mate.

Kay Dee isn't far from me so every one in Oregon uses them just because! All the wagon kits here have a huge weight in the kit so it's kind of a no brainer if you get my drift!

 

:offtopic:All North American stock runs on trucks (bogies in British English) and it's a big thing in HO to have sprung trucks! Having seen how good the stock runs on them, I only wish someone manufactured British versions in OO.  

Also when you get around to making loads for the 16Tonners, balsa wood  or PIR might be a safe bet. Too much weight will cause problems on any gradients as I have found out.    

[Anotheran]

The post this morning brought transfers from Modelmaster. Enough on the 16-ton minerals sheet for 20 wagons! I also ordered the GWR transfers for brown wagons (ie yellow lettering) for the Python, together with sheets for GWR grey wagons (white lettering) that I'll need at some point and also a sheet to allow me to renumber my class 37 to D6889 for my 1972 runs (on which the mineral wagons will come in!)

 

So with transfers in my hand I needed to get on with painting. So with the sun shining and my calls finished at 4:30 I set out with my can of Humbrol acrylic primer. From what others have said I'll buy Halfords primer in future as it's a lot cheaper and just as effective. But I bought this a while ago.

 

First I removed the wheels and masked off everything that I didn't want to get paint on. So I needed some blu-tac for the bearings, and twelve bits of post-it 9mm x 4.5mm

 

 

Using the blobs of blu-tac (actually mine isn't blu-tac, it's white, but I don't know the proper name for it) was easy on the mineral wagon. But of course, I'd lubricated the bearings on the Python as part of my fix for my sticky wheel problem. So getting them to stay in place on that was a bit of a pain. But they did eventually.

 

Lots of old newspaper on the garden table in the sun resulted in two grey trucks

 

 

I'll use the airbrush to apply the colour to the roof and sides of the Python, but I may use a normal brush for the under-frames. As for the mineral, I'm not sure I need to apply any more paint other than the under-frame as the grey looks pretty good to me as it is. Given that it will be well weathered after the transfers are in place I don't think anything else is needed. What do people think? I still need to put the false floor and load in though... forgot to do that until after I looked at the picture!

 

 

Edited June 13, 2022 by Anotheran
Adding back images lost by site change

[ChrisN]

Have just had a good catch up  read through Doxey End.

That 2ozs will help no end with stabilizing the wagons over those uncoupling magnets mate.

Kay Dee isn't far from me so every one in Oregon uses them just because! All the wagon kits here have a huge weight in the kit so it's kind of a no brainer if you get my drift!

 

:offtopic:All North American stock runs on trucks (bogies in British English) and it's a big thing in HO to have sprung trucks! Having seen how good the stock runs on them, I only wish someone manufactured British versions in OO.

Also when you get around to making loads for the 16Tonners, balsa wood  or PIR might be a safe bet. Too much weight will cause problems on any gradients as I have found out.    

 

Neil,

My comment about 19th century was tongue in cheek!  It is surprising though how much changed on the railways but how much stayed the same.

 

As for weight, in coaches I use whitemetal passengers, but I will weigh them on our kitchen scales to check how much weight there is.  I was told a story by Hubert of Model Railway Developments, (I think), of a coach weighted like this with a full compliment of passengers which was too heavy to be pulled up a gradient so Shaun's word's of advice are wise.

[ChrisN]

Neil,

Cross posting!  I think the wagon looks fine as is, but it is not my era and others may feel differently.

[corneliuslundie]

If they are unfitted wagons I am pretty sure the tiebars between the axle boxes should be removed - unless you are modelling wagons which had once been vacuum braked but had had the vacuum fittings removed, when I suspect the tiebars remained. However, in that case there should probably be some remains of the vacuum brakes.

 

Fitting vacuum brakes to mineral wagons intended to go through colliery screens and wagon tipplers wasn't a very bright idea, apparently, and many of them were quickly converted back to non-vacuum although some of the fittings remained. The article I referred to above has a bit about this but I am sure there are others who know far more about the subject than me as it is the best part of a century past .my period of interest.

 

Jonathan

[Anotheran]

On 29/06/2015 at 18:48, corneliuslundie said:

If they are unfitted wagons I am pretty sure the tiebars between the axle boxes should be removed.

 

Thanks Jonathan. It didn't say that in the instructions, but on reading your post I looked back at the drawing on the pack, and sure enough, no tie bars. Also none on prototype pictures that I can find of unfitted stock. So some quick touches with the scalpel and I have some spare pieces that I can use for something else in the future.

 

Back on its wheels it's looking fairly smart now. Just some black on the under-frame and some transfers and it's ready for weathering!

 

 

 

Edited June 13, 2022 by Anotheran
Adding back images lost by site change

[Fat Controller]

If they are unfitted wagons I am pretty sure the tiebars between the axle boxes should be removed - unless you are modelling wagons which had once been vacuum braked but had had the vacuum fittings removed, when I suspect the tiebars remained. However, in that case there should probably be some remains of the vacuum brakes.

 

Fitting vacuum brakes to mineral wagons intended to go through colliery screens and wagon tipplers wasn't a very bright idea, apparently, and many of them were quickly converted back to non-vacuum although some of the fittings remained. The article I referred to above has a bit about this but I am sure there are others who know far more about the subject than me as it is the best part of a century past .my period of interest.

 

Jonathan

The 'defitted' minerals were clasp-braked ones which never had the cylinders fitted; most, if not all, remained in this condition until withdrawal. When a belated effort was made to vacuum-fit more 16 tonners, the ones that were chosen were those with Morton (brake shoes on one side only) brakes, which received a second set of brake shoes, along with a pair of vacuum cylinders. 

The problem at the collieries wasn't a problem with screens, but simply that NCB shunters refused to go between wagons to couple and uncouple the 'bags'. There was a problem with end-tipping unloading facilities, most notably at Goole Docks, I believe.

[hornbyandbf3fan]

Looking good Neil, a lot better than my attempts which usually end in broken brake rods!

[Anotheran]

Some interesting things coming through on 16-ton minerals. I'll look more into it as I build more to put some variation into the stock. Thanks for the information guys!

 

Some more firsts for me this evening (at least as far as railway modelling is concerned... I did some model planes when I was a kid). I decided to use the number 0 brush to paint the rectangles for the boxed markings and the under-frame, rather than using the airbrush for the under-frame. I figured it would be quicker to clean up afterwards, and it didn't matter if I didn't get a perfectly smooth surface underneath as that's the bit that's going to get the most muck when it's weathered.

 

First I gently marked out the size of the box with the tip of a scalpel. I didn't trust myself to get it right by eye, so I decided that this was the best method even though it meant breaking the surface of the primer slightly. Then it was on with the black.

 

 

Incidentally, the top photo above shows the really good finish and coverage of all of the under-frame from the spray primer. It was all black plastic and is universally covered. As a result I may try airbrush or spray on the next one, but possibly before assembly to avoid having to mask out the various bits that would need it. Having said that, I was reasonably happy with the time it took me to paint the under-frame and boxes by hand.

 

Then it was on to the decals. When first cut out they don't look much.

 

 

Waterslide decals really did bring back memories of childhood plane modelling. I put the end door stripes on first and then the information boxes. Then I just had to put the wheels back in and take a couple of photos, one of each side.

 

 

I'm really happy with that. OK, so it needs some weathering, and the Kadees do detract rather from the look, but in a rake I think they will look very impressive. Total time, about three hours over three nights. For the first one, I'm happy with that. I may speed up a bit with practice, and also if I do more than one at a time on a sort of production line. But it was very enjoyable to do, and for about two thirds the cost of a ready to run model.

 

There are a couple of touches that will improve it a little. Some white on the brake levers, and maybe some gun metal on the shafts of the buffers. I also need to check what colour, if any, the axle boxes should be. But it's far enough along for me to call it done.

 

 

Edited June 13, 2022 by Anotheran
Adding back images lost by site change

[Anotheran]

Looking good Neil, a lot better than my attempts which usually end in broken brake rods!

 

Thanks Will. I did break a brake handle when bending it into shape, which you can see in one of the photos above, but not easily when looking at the model with the naked eye. Too much solvent (the intent of which was to make it soft and then hold its new shape better) meant that the middle of it just came apart in my tweezers. It took me a while to find half of it which was stuck to my left thumb!

[ChrisN]

Neil,

Just a word of caution about spraying first.  If you do make sure you do not spray the surface that you are going to glue, as you will be sticking glue to glue and it will fall apart when the paint comes off.  Now, how do I know that? 

[Anotheran]

Thanks Chris. I had thought about that problem, which is why I didn't paint any of this one first. But having seen the finish of the sprayed paint I was thinking it may be easier to spray paint and then scrape the paint off the relevant surfaces to then use the solvent than assemble first and paint around the assemblies. Having said all that I was very pleased with the time this one has taken, so it clearly wasn't a bad method!

[Jock67B]

Neil,

Sorry to be a pain, but the white end door stripes look to be slightly wrong, I believe the top of it should line up with the top of the door? There are dozens of images on the '16T Minerals' thread as reference! The angled ends would then match to the edges of the panel if you can fathom my meaning.

Kind regards,

Jock.

[Anotheran]

Sorry to be a pain, but the white end door stripes look to be slightly wrong, I believe the top of it should line up with the top of the door?

 

Not a pain at all Jock. It's good to get feedback. I have to admit that most of my references were other models (an amateur mistake I know) as well as the kit drawings. While the angle would then be right I'd need to cut the decal slightly as it would be too long. I'll try that on the next one as (as you point out) the prototype seems to normally have the top of the stripe aligned with the top of the door. As for this one. I may change it, but for now it can be like this prototype... http://www.nwrail.org.uk/jh0373-41220.jpg

 

Kind regards, Neil

[corneliuslundie]

Paul Bartlett (HMRSPaul on this site) has a fantastic website of wagon photos. Never any need to refer to a model for reference again. I stand corrected about the detail of the de-braking of some of the wagons. Thanks. And I am sure you can find all sorts of variations of the end door stripe.

 

One small question to which I don't know the answer. Did wagons with bottom doors still have the white V on the solebar at this date? It doesn't affect the model as you can't see whether they have bottom doors without peering extremely closely (and looking for bits I have never been able to see) except if you want to be a purist when choosing the number. But if they were still in use it is another possible visual variation.

 

Jonathan

[Physicsman]

Hi Neil.

 

Haven't popped in for a while. Great to see progress - at least someone is doing some modelling!

 

Jeff

[Anotheran]

Paul Bartlett (HMRSPaul on this site) has a fantastic website of wagon photos. Never any need to refer to a model for reference again.

 

Thanks Jonathan for the pointer to Paul Bartlett's fantastic site. There are a few on there with the stripe like I have it, so this one will remain like it is. But all future ones will be correct, though I may vary the thickness and length of the stripe occasionally as well as there seems to be a lot of variety. It certainly gives a vast selection of prototype photos from which to gather weathering patterns. I can see me using it a lot.

Edited June 30, 2015 by Anotheran

[Anotheran]

Haven't popped in for a while. Great to see progress - at least someone is doing some modelling!

 

Hi Jeff, good to see you back.

I did try the carpet tile hobby once, but it didn't cut it for me   so I'll carry on modelling, if somewhat more slowly than many others.

 

Kind regards, Neil

[Sasquatch]

Hi Neil.

I didn't find time to check in yesterday and see that I'm too late now but you asked about comments on the primer.

 

Under all the rust coal dust and general grime it shouldn't matter. However a word of caution when applying transfers directly onto primer some transfers wont last long when applied to it! Most like a glossy surface!!

 

They're looking great BTW.

 

Shaun    

Edited July 1, 2015 by Sasquatch

[Anotheran]

However a word of caution when applying transfers directly onto primer some transfers wont last long when applied to it! Most like a glossy surface!! 

 

Thanks for the advice Shaun, I shall remember that in future. Fortunately the transfer that I wouldn't be able to replace with a small paint job (the information panel) is applied to the small square of black (though that isn't gloss either...), so isn't on the primer. If the stripe comes off, then I can paint that on, and even get it in the right place second time around! Given that's the case I'll probably go ahead and do the others in the same way (as in primer only for these 16-ton minerals.

 

Kind regards, Neil

Edited July 1, 2015 by Anotheran

[corneliuslundie]

Reading further through my MRJ backnumbers, there was a latter from Paul Bartlett correcting some points in the article in mineral wagons - including comments on the positioning of the diagonal stripes - and then later there was an article on the various rebuilds (but may be outside your time frame) and another on modelling the wagons.

 

Jonathan