The Official Rapido APT-E Thread

[JSpencer]

the video suggests there are lots of benefits to articulation and sharing a common bogie across two carraiges. i wonder why it's not more common? the only example I know of is the TGV.

also, why did the joint module design of the E train not make it into the P train?

The main one being safety. If it derails, the train has a far greater chance remaining up right and intact. The French did an examination of the Spanish high speed train crash a few years back and reach a conclusion that their TGV would just have derailed and remained intact and upright. The Spanish trains classic bogie train caused everything to fly everywhere.

 

The down side is splitting the train to make different sized rakes. I wonder if the ICE Eurostars will prove as safe as the classic Eurostars in the long run?

[Mr_Tilt]

Just tried again this morning, and now it's playing...

 

And for me too. 

 

It's blooming AGES since I watched it and it does give the impression that HST was running before Prof. Alan Wickens' work on the wheel/rail dynamics took place.

 

Nothing could be further from the truth! Alan did his work in the mid-late 60s. and the HST used his wheel profiles and suspension systems to achieve its performance.

 

There's a shot on there of me driving a crane   around the Tilt Rig, but it's not obvious what I'm actually going to lift. 

 

[Mr_Tilt]

 The Spanish trains classic bogie train caused everything to fly everywhere.

 

 

I don't think so.

 

In the numerous photos of that awful crash there's no sign of a bogie anywhere under the coaches. On the other hand there are photos that show single axles under one end of the coaches which means it was a Talgo train. That's also borne out by the end views of the coaches showing the air springs mounted up near the roof line.

 

That means it WAS articulated, albeit not in the same way the TGVs are. 

[Mr_Tilt]

also, why did the joint module design of the E train not make it into the P train?

 

The design of the Joint Module was the direct result of the Swinging Arm bogie design's need for a long Steering Beam, which meant that ends of the vehicles had a lot of overhang on curves and thus needed something to take up all the resulting gap. It also needed to provide cover for the passengers when two adjacent vehicles had large angles of differing tilt and pitch, which resulted in the weird shape of the module. It also resulted in even weirder shapes of the floor in the middle of the Module too, sometimes it looked like a metal Mobius Strip! 

 

When the SA bogie was found to be somewhat deficient in performance the Design Team looked at new solutions for the P-Train and came up with the BT11 bogie which used a very different philosophy from the SA bogies and enabled them to use more conventional coach end designs. There was also the cost issues, the Joint Module configuration was very expensive, with zillions of different parts, some quite small, and all of which had to fit exactly in order to make it all work.

[Mr_Tilt]

Sounds as "over-engineered" to me

 

Back then there wasn't a simple solution.

 

No-one had done a 155 mph tilting train before, that's why it was 'Advanced'........

[newbryford]

the video suggests there are lots of benefits to articulation and sharing a common bogie across two carraiges. i wonder why it's not more common? the only example I know of is the TGV.

 

 

 

Articulated trains aren't as easy to split and recombine whenever heavy maintenance is due.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[jjb1970]

I may be completely wrong but I was under the impression that the track force models used by Railtrack and NR tended not to favour articulation. Alstom offered a train using bogie offset articulation for their Thameslink 2000 rolling stock bid but lost out to the Desiro City. There have been a few articulated trains on British rails going back to the LNER of the 1920's so its not like the UK has never shown an interest in the concept.

[willjmitchell]

this must be the best OO guage train ever made. can't wait for mine to be delivered!

[willjmitchell]

two further videos have been posted with the train moving. the sound is fantastic and the running mechanism looks super smooth.

[Mr_Tilt]

Where are those vids posted please? I've looked on the Locomotion web site, but no joy.

 

Ah, found them. 

 

They're here :- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLz_-JyXP6A and the one following. Only running on two turbines though and no APU so I wonder how the lights are on....... 

 

Looks like Brain's had the body shell of PC2 apart in the second vid. 

Edited March 6, 2016 by Mr_Tilt

[Ian J.]

It does look, and sound, good.

[Danim]

that looks and sounds incredible we should get a mini kit looking at the bogie in the next video

[LongRail]

Kit is that graffiti on the vehicle side in the photo with the flares and cravat I always thought graffiti like that was a more modern phenomenon

[Mr_Tilt]

Kit is that graffiti on the vehicle side in the photo with the flares and cravat I always thought graffiti like that was a more modern phenomenon

 

It does look like graffiti, doesn't it?

 

But it's the reflection of the roof window frames in the incredibly warped side panels of the Power Car. The warps came and went when the two Power Cars were moved inside or the weather warmed up and cooled down. At Shildon it's kept at the same temperature all the time so they don't appear.

 

No doubt some enterprising resin moulder will produce warped body sides for the Power Cars before much longer. 

 

And no, the Trailer Cars didn't exhibit the warps as they were of stressed skin construction....

[LongRail]

Kit,

 

Thanks for the response it surprises me that the warping of the sides was visibly descernable as a result of temperature changes. Was there something specific about the construction of the power cars which caused this behavour?

[McC]

Wow!!! Can not wait for mine to arrive through the post!

[Mr_Tilt]

Kit,

 

Thanks for the response it surprises me that the warping of the sides was visibly descernable as a result of temperature changes. Was there something specific about the construction of the power cars which caused this behavour?

 

Oh yes, it was built from a square tube Warren Truss type structure, exactly the same as POP-Train was (POP-Train's structures were E-Train Power Cars without any skins and ballast weights instead of turbines etc.) but with a lightweight, non-stressed aluminium skin over the top of it.

 

If you watch the 'E for Experimental' film linked above there's quite a bit about how Metro-Cam built the Power Cars, and you can see them adding the skins. 

[BR60103]

I saw the model at the CARM meet in Copetown today. Very impressive; I'm almost sorry I didn't order one.

 

I asked Rapido about delivery routes and they said that all were going to England first, then to be spread out around the globe.

[LocomotionatShildon]

Hi everyone

 

For those who have watched my poor videos, sorry I'm no film maker!  These were only test runs and Brian Greenwood has written the following to explain it all. (He writes so much more eloquently than I!)

 

“Well spotted Kit but Brain (or is it Brian!) had spotted it first! You are partly correct, it is in fact PC1 not PC2 as that is where the decoder is located. The bodies at both ends on this production sample have actually been on and off a lot more than anyone else would possibly want to do as part of the very thorough testing program we have done. They are remarkably resilient and easily removed and replaced without causing any damage or having to remove any screws. All you need is a couple of long thumb nails!! Apologies for the poor re-fitting which had just not been pushed home firmly enough, (but has been now!) but the excuse was that by this time it was getting very late and Sandra was still there at 19.30 helping, bless her, so we were all getting a bit tired and rushed. We had had a union issue earlier which had delayed the start of testing due to a driving dispute and the APT-E had been “blacked" so the tests were behind schedule.

 

Everyone also might be interested to know that the video you refer to was actually a DCC sound version running on dc analogue so the features are limited, but demonstrably you do get a great sound even on that, although without all of the "bells and whistles”. You haven’t seen or heard a full DCC sound version yet but we will see what we can do next week. We had had a long day putting together a demanding test layout with all proprietary track which included 2nd, 3rd and 4th radius curves and complex switch layouts to test every angle we could! It coped with everything exceptionally well so the design brief for 2nd radius curves has been well met, but you are going to have to adjust your line-side if you want to run at this radius. There is a lot of overhang particularly outside. A very careful test will be required on your layouts very slowly first to check gauging and to avoid damaging the superb paint finish by scratching it on protruding objects! The warranty does not cover that by the way so be careful! The one thing it will not quite understandably cope with is Setrack points so don’t expect to try that without derailments.

It will also be interesting to learn that the coaches and power cars have all been disconnected and re-connected many many times without a single issue or breakage so a great design from Bill. You must however READ THE INSTRUCTIONS FIRST (which will also amuse you too!) if you want to have the same reliable experience. Failure to do this is not advisable so don’t be tempted to just rush in to get it on the tracks! 

The running is incredible smooth in all modes and 155 mph looks possible! Slow speed is also brilliant as is the internal detail and lighting. But the sound and start up sequence is just amazing. Build quality up with the best I have seen.

 

We had also been doing a lot of tests with this set in all 3 modes of DCC, DCC sound fitted running on analogue and DC analogue with decoder removed and blanking plug fitted. Sandra took this bit of video just after the decoder had been re-fitted after the analogue test and we were still running DC analogue as you can see from the controller if you look carefully. 

We also need to do some video with a better DCC controller as the only one we had on the day had limited function control and APT-E has a lot more than it could demonstrate. More to look forward to seeing though.

The first consignment is due to arrive at Felixstowe this week but we have been warned that there will be delays unloading of more than a week due to serious congestion at the port. Then they have to clear customs and get loaded to Shildon. To help to recover some of the delays which Chinese New Year has caused, we are hopeful that the second batch will be sent by airfreight w/e 18 March so we are hoping both should be arriving with us the week after. We hope to start the despatch process on or around the 22nd/23rd March progressively to customers in the order we received reservations, with all of the DCC sound versions going first. Please bear with us though as Sandra has to set off for the York show over Easter so they are unlikely to all get sent before but her and Stuart will do there absolute best to do as many as possible, but these are big boxes to pack and many of you want extra cars too. The DCC ready versions will be in the 3rd batch and we are still waiting to hear of a final completion date for these but we expect that to be by the end of the month. They then just have to get here!

Finally there will be just a few extra to sell to those who missed or regret not ordering so if you are disappointed and want one, give Sandra a ring this week or see her at Ally Pally next weekend. I’m sure she will have a set with her for you to ogle!

I can assure you it has been worth the wait.”

 

Thanks and regards

 

Brian Greenwood

Chairman

Locomotion Joint Management Board

 

Edited March 7, 2016 by LocomotionatShildon

[No Decorum]

Where are those vids posted please? I've looked on the Locomotion web site, but no joy.

 

Ah, found them. 

 

They're here :- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLz_-JyXP6A and the one following. Only running on two turbines though and no APU so I wonder how the lights are on....... 

 

Looks like Brain's had the body shell of PC2 apart in the second vid. 

That would explain the light leak, then. It does look amazing. The passenger compartment looks most convincing but the engineering section cries out for engineers. If Bachmann had done it, perhaps we would have had engineers but then it would have cost zillions. It won’t be long now until I’m boring my nearest and dearest to death!

[Ely_South]

I had a chuckle yesterday when I saw Brian; the chairman of Locomotion; playing trains in the videos.

 

There are many companies out there that would be sooo much better if the chairperson got to play trains every now and again.

 

I may set up some track on our boardroom table 

[wombatofludham]

Thanks to Brian for the comprehensive update.  I was amazed just how the unit coped with the test tracks and even more surprised to learn the sound was running on analogue.  Excellent footage for those of us waiting for Felixstowe to pull their collective digits out!

[LocomotionatShildon]

Please ring me on any of the 3 numbers listed earlier if you need to reach me.  I am getting lots of spam (in the 100s!) at the moment so some email messages are getting lost.  We are trying to remedy the problem as quickly as possible.

 

Cheers

Sandra

[Guest]

The passenger compartment looks most convincing but the engineering section cries out for engineers. If Bachmann had done it, perhaps we would have had engineers but then it would have cost zillions.

I imagine painting the Rupert Bear trousers in OO is a challenge.

[Mr_Tilt]

I imagine painting the Rupert Bear trousers in OO is a challenge.

 

Supposing someone does do some 3D versions of the test team (and it's not just an idle thought on my part.......  ) there could be different decal sheets to match the different patterns of flares and kipper ties............