Sheffield Exchange, Toy trains, music and fun!

[Clive Mortimore]

Used to live down the road from Bakewell in Two Dales.

 

Lucky we moved..........

Hi Peter

 

You were sort of there today, we did take time to review your drawings of a 4 CIG which graced the pages of MRC many many moons ago.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Probably the least said about those the better......  

[Clive Mortimore]

Probably the least said about those the better......

Robin who was on the same stand as me has made a convincing model following your drawings.

[Clive Mortimore]

I have posted this on Derek's thread, but it is probably worth repeating here.

  

You don't have to use all and every facility that DCC offers, and not using them is not a waste. You simply define what you want to do, and use those features.

 

I would say that for most people, the ability to fine-tune some aspects of motor performance is useful;

The better running that comes from a constant voltage of about 14v is extremely useful;

If space is available, the improvements in running that a keep-alive or stay-alive circuit plus capacitors is phenomenally useful.

 

The major benefit comes from the nature of DCC, which is that there is an on-board microprocessor which will only provide power to the motor in response to commands sent specifically for that model's identity.

This means two things:

•  
• You can run a train to wherever it should have stopped, without worrying about switching on the correct sections and isolators;
• You can run another loco up to this train, to couple on the front for double-heading, to couple on the rear for pilot work, to simply buffer up to the rear for banking, without having to faff around with (and without having to install) lots of section breaks, feeds and switches.

In short, it decouples running a train from the "control panel", which means you drive the train/engine and not the track, and you get better running. 

And this means that you can wire the layout such that you can run against signals, just as you do on the real thing. There are two ways to achieve this simply. One is to wire up the crossing vees to a "frog juicer" which flip-flops the current supply to the vee to match what is required. The other is to have dead sections at crossing vees, and install stay-alive capacitors to store enough energy to get you over those sections.

 

Everything else, lights, sounds, "consisting" (which is running engines in multiple, as opposed to tandem so not appropriate for steam!) is just extras. And entirely optional.

 

The same, simple system without the "bells and whistles" can also be achieved by using radio control with a constant supply over the rails and small batteries to keep things going across dead sections. (Or by simply using larger batteries and not powering the track at all!)

DC is wonderful, well to a tight git like me. No having to pay extra to buy a chip so you can run your train. With 200 plus locomotives it would be expensive. NO I want to run all my trains so no suggesting I only buy chips for those I normally run. Many of my scratchbuilt locos would need rebuilding to fit a chip, so not feasible.

 

Most of my sections would be power feeds in DCC to prevent sort circuits so no advantage there. I can live with a 30p switch and a couple of extra solder joints.

 

I do not need gimmicks like lights and sound. Summer time 1960s, no train ran with an illuminated light that was visible. Model railway sound to a tone deaf person is just noise.

 

Having operated DCC layouts both big and small I can say there was no advantage I could see in running the trains. In fact I find it a lot harder when trying to use push button and up and down arrows to drive the train than my trusted control knob on a Gaugemaster panel mount.

 

How hard in DC is it to couple up four DMUs in the fiddle yard, turn on the controller and off they go. DCC that is four entries into the controller after coupling up, telling the controller what you want them to do, like all run the same way before you can get them on their way. Yeah great.

 

Drive the train not the track......bow locks......Operating any layout by yourself means you have to set the route, before driving the train. Even with DC you can have a "signalman" who sets up the route and signals and "drivers" who operate the trains.

 

No need to fine tune any of my locos as they are looked after and have clean wheels and oiled mechanisms. None of this running away because the CV is set up wrong, they only run away cos I turned the knob too much, and I can do that in DCC as well.

 

How much effort is there in isolating a train when it has stopped, hardly any. Then set the route for the next loco and off you go. How much effort is required to type in the loco number, well first walk to the other end of the layout so you can read the number, tell the controller which way it has to go, do the gimmicks etc before driving the loco. And you still have the route to set, but you are not driving the track.

 

This is the last time I am saying I WILL NEVER BUILD A DCC LAYOUT AS I CAN NOT SEE ANY ADVANTAGE TO MY MODELING. So no more post about DCC on my layout thread. I look forward to reading how wonderful it is on other peoples layout threads.

Edited June 10, 2018 by Clive Mortimore

[Andrew P]

DC is wonderful, well to a tight git like me. No having to pay extra to buy a chip so you can run your train. With 200 plus locomotives it would be expensive. NO I want to run all my trains so no suggesting I only buy chips for those I normally run. Many of my scratchbuilt loos would need rebuilding to fit a chip, so not feasible.

 

Most of my sections would be power feeds in DCC to prevent sort circuits so no advantage there. I can live with a 30p switch and a couple of extra solder joints.

 

I do not need gimmicks like lights and sound. Summer time 1960s, no train ran with an illuminated light that was visible. Model railway sound to a tone deaf person is just noise.

 

Having operated DCC layouts both big and small I can say there was no advantage I could see in running the trains. In fact I find it a lot harder when trying to use push button and up and down arrows to drive the train than my trusted control knob on a Gaugemaster panel mount.

 

How hard in DC is it to couple up four DMUs in the fiddle yard, turn on the controller and off they go. DCC that is four entries into the controller after coupling up, telling the controller what you want them to do, like all run the same way before you can get them on their way. Yeah great.

 

Drive the train not the track......bow locks......Operating any layout by yourself means you have to set the route, before driving the train. Even with DC you can have a "signalman" who sets up the route and signals and "drivers" who operate the trains.

 

No need to fine tune any of my locos as they are looked after and have clean wheels and oiled mechanisms. None of this running away because the CV is set up wrong, they only run away cos I turned the knob too much, and I can do that in DCC as well.

 

How much effort is there in isolating a train when it has stopped, hardly any. Then set the route for the next loco and off you go. How much effort is required to type in the loco number, well first walk to the other end of the layout so you can read the number, tell the controller which way it has to go, do the gimmicks etc before driving the loco. And you still have the route to set, but you are not driving the track.

 

This is the last time I am saying I WILL NEVER BUILD A DCC LAYOUT AS I CAN NOT SEE ANY ADVANTAGE TO MY MODELING. So no more post about DCC on my layout thread. I look forward to reading how wonderful it is on other peoples layout threads.

Well said that man, even though I'm DCC I fully see ALL your valid points.

 

End of 

Edited June 10, 2018 by Andrew P

[Andrew P]

Now then young Clive, whats all this on the News this morning about a chap in Lincolnshire driving a Kit Built Loco through the buffers and off the end of his Layout and causing a minor Earthquake?

[Dagworth]

Damn, beaten to it by Andrew P...

 

I was about to post the same thing asking if the stops had failed again

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/earthquake-tremors-england-north-yorkshire-british-geological-survey-a8391641.html

 

Andi

[Clive Mortimore]

Now then young Clive, whats all this on the News this morning about a chap in Lincolnshire driving a Kit Built Loco through the buffers and off the end of his Layout and causing a minor Earthquake?

 

Damn, beaten to it by Andrew P...

 

I was about to post the same thing asking if the stops had failed again

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/earthquake-tremors-england-north-yorkshire-british-geological-survey-a8391641.html

 

Andi

Hi Andy and Andi

 

Nothing to do with me.

 

We appear to be very very close to it, I was awake but felt or heard nought.  Mrs M was a sleep and I only have to bang close a cupboard door and she accuses me of waking her so it wasn't that loud.

 

Looking at the map Andi has linked to how the bu88er did people 30 miles away hear things?

[Andrew P]

Well if it wasn't a Loco it must be somthing to do with what you ate last night.

 

Sorry about bringing this fine thread down to Toilet humour levels.    

[Clive Mortimore]

Well if it wasn't a Loco it must be somthing to do with what you ate last night.

 

Sorry about bringing this fine thread down to Toilet humour levels.    

No the guys from Anglia Water cleared the blocked sewer on Thursday, thankfully.

[Regularity]

Not trying to convert you, Clive, not at all.

Just pointing out some simple facts - but I did miss one, which you have kindly mentioned, which is the cost of converting/installing decoders into 200+ models, which would run into thousands of pounds. Plus the time spent cutting and soldering wires.

There can be significant benefits to adopting DCC, but I think it depends on how far down the DC road one has gone as to whether it is feasible, and you are way too far down that road.

[Clive Mortimore]

Earthquake update:

 

The one who lives in the caravan said it shook for a very short while like it does when windy but there was no wind.

[PaulCheffus]

Hi

 

Didn’t know there had been an earthquake until my wife mentioned it as one of her friends from Grimsby had emailed her about it.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[jazzer]

DC is wonderful, well to a tight git like me. No having to pay extra to buy a chip so you can run your train. With 200 plus locomotives it would be expensive. NO I want to run all my trains so no suggesting I only buy chips for those I normally run. Many of my scratchbuilt locos would need rebuilding to fit a chip, so not feasible.

 

Most of my sections would be power feeds in DCC to prevent sort circuits so no advantage there. I can live with a 30p switch and a couple of extra solder joints.

 

I do not need gimmicks like lights and sound. Summer time 1960s, no train ran with an illuminated light that was visible. Model railway sound to a tone deaf person is just noise.

 

Having operated DCC layouts both big and small I can say there was no advantage I could see in running the trains. In fact I find it a lot harder when trying to use push button and up and down arrows to drive the train than my trusted control knob on a Gaugemaster panel mount.

 

How hard in DC is it to couple up four DMUs in the fiddle yard, turn on the controller and off they go. DCC that is four entries into the controller after coupling up, telling the controller what you want them to do, like all run the same way before you can get them on their way. Yeah great.

 

Drive the train not the track......bow locks......Operating any layout by yourself means you have to set the route, before driving the train. Even with DC you can have a "signalman" who sets up the route and signals and "drivers" who operate the trains.

 

No need to fine tune any of my locos as they are looked after and have clean wheels and oiled mechanisms. None of this running away because the CV is set up wrong, they only run away cos I turned the knob too much, and I can do that in DCC as well.

 

How much effort is there in isolating a train when it has stopped, hardly any. Then set the route for the next loco and off you go. How much effort is required to type in the loco number, well first walk to the other end of the layout so you can read the number, tell the controller which way it has to go, do the gimmicks etc before driving the loco. And you still have the route to set, but you are not driving the track.

 

This is the last time I am saying I WILL NEVER BUILD A DCC LAYOUT AS I CAN NOT SEE ANY ADVANTAGE TO MY MODELING. So no more post about DCC on my layout thread. I look forward to reading how wonderful it is on other peoples layout threads.

Thank you for that. Maybe I'm not such a dinosaur after all. Edited June 10, 2018 by jazzer

[richard i]

Earthquake.

Are you sure you didn't just eat too many beans?

[Alister_G]

Another day and another model railway exhibition, this time Bakewell in Derbyshire.

 

Oh damn, sorry to have missed you Clive, weekend from hell.

 

Al.

[Clive Mortimore]

Earthquake.

Are you sure you didn't just eat too many beans?

Hi Richard

 

I take the blame for many things but because I had beans yesterday at the Bakewell exhibition does not mean I am responsible for an earthquake 11 miles down under Grimbsy. As you can tell the marshlands were not effected by this event, as I am glad to hear Paul was safe a few miles from me here in Soloby.

Oh damn, sorry to have missed you Clive, weekend from hell.

 

Al.

That is a pity Al, it is always nice to meet fellow RMwebbers.

[jimwal]

Lincolnshire earthquake.

 

Nothing to do with you Clive.

Maybe aftreshocks from running my locos on Tony Wright's 'Little Bytham'!

[Enterprisingwestern]

Hi

 

Didn’t know there had been an earthquake until my wife mentioned it as one of her friends from Grimsby had emailed her about it.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

 

So the earth didn't move for you then Paul?

Maybe you need to refine your technique!!

 

Mike.

[newbryford]

, and you are way too far down that road.

 

And it's a bumpy one at that...…………

 

Mick

[Clive Mortimore]

I have just had a nice running session after a couple of weeks of running stuff I was making. Great fun. I had an eight car DMU (4 car Derby and 4 car Met-Cam) running anti clockwise and a  six car (3x2 car Cravens) running the opposite way and when they passed each other on the gentle curves at a scale 50 mph it looked very good. I later drove both in at the same time into adjacent platforms, I need a bit more practice to match the speeds but I am getting better.

It also looked good with the 2P and a Stanier class 4 tank hauling Mk1 suburbans. A Fowler class 4 tank was the first loco on a operating session to use the turntable.

[Andrew P]

I have just had a nice running session after a couple of weeks of running stuff I was making. Great fun. I had an eight car DMU (4 car Derby and 4 car Met-Cam) running anti clockwise and a  six car (3x2 car Cravens) running the opposite way and when they passed each other on the gentle curves at a scale 50 mph it looked very good. I later drove both in at the same time into adjacent platforms, I need a bit more practice to match the speeds but I am getting better.

 

It also looked good with the 2P and a Stanier class 4 tank hauling Mk1 suburbans. A Fowler class 4 tank was the first loco on a operating session to use the turntable.

Well young Sir, I do hope that  you made ALL the appropriate Chuffing and Brrrrrummming noises, and with the windows closed, otherwise the neighbours would think you'd gone gar garr.

[Clive Mortimore]

Well young Sir, I do hope that  you made ALL the appropriate Chuffing and Brrrrrummming noises, and with the windows closed, otherwise the neighbours would think you'd gone gar garr.

No, and I had the windies closed. We had a thunderstorm, I can't have my little darling DMUs getting wet.

[newbryford]

. A Fowler class 4 tank was the first loco on a operating session to use the turntable.

 

Ah - turntables and DC/DCC - this subject could go round in circles.............

 

Cheers,

MIck

[Regularity]

Ah - turntables and DC/DCC - this subject could go round in circles.............

 

Cheers,

MIck

 

May I be the first to suggest that you sit and swivel?