Bachmann announce Narrow Gauge range led by Baldwin 4-6-0T

[Butler Henderson]

Given according to Bachmann they are in the toolroom then could it be a typo by Hattons and should be Nov/Dec 2017?

[Stevelewis]

Given according to Bachmann they are in the toolroom then could it be a typo by Hattons and should be Nov/Dec 2017?

 

I was  thinking  that  initially  but  I  had  4  separate  emails  from  Hattons  one  for   each  of  the  4  variants  I will ask  Hattons  to confirm  as  I need to  know  re  ongoing  layout  planning!

[Stevelewis]

I have  just  had  confirmation  From  Hattons  that  the  2018 date  is  correct, the  info apparently  being  given to  them  at  the  2017  Bachmann Launch  day.

[Hobby]

I'll be glad when it finally arrives... 178 posts and nothing to show for it... I wonder sometimes if it's better for them to keep quiet until they are on their way to the shops...

Edited January 10, 2017 by Hobby

[PaulRhB]

That's nothing compared to most Hornby and Bachmann threads!

It's not missed a delivery date and it's still progressing. As I said on the similarly doom laden NGRM thread it's one of many products coming and it has to shuffle its slot amongst a lot of other product with a small design team.

The poor guys must think why do they bother working hard on 60+ new products each year to have the ones that are most complicated torn apart for taking their time to do it as best they can?

All we'd get instead if they didn't tell us is two years of whinging that they are missing out on the rtr 009 market or not producing product to commemorate the Great War!

 

They really cannot win

[Hobby]

Which is why, if they insist on a 4 year delivery strategy, I suggested that they keep quiet for a bit or be realistic at the outset rather than raise hopes. Do that and they CAN win! They have brought it on themselves.

 

At least Bachmann USA seem to be more clued up.

 

(Paul, we will not agree on this, and I will not defend the indefensible, if small companies like Peco and Minitrains with much less resources can deliver within a reasonable timescale there is no excuse for a multi-national such as Bachmann especially when their original announcement (as quoted by Andy in his original post) pointed to their experience with narrow gauge models!)

Edited January 11, 2017 by Hobby

[Stevelewis]

Its  a  difficult  one  this!  We  have  to  appreciate  that  businesses   are  there  to  make  a  profit,  and to  do  that  they  have  to  sell  as  much  as   possible!,  They  can  only  do  this  if  the  buying  public  actually  want  the  items  on  offer.

 

We  have  to  remember  that  the 009  segment  is  very  small  and  although  the  recent  and  forthcoming developments  will undoubtedly increase the  009 segment  size  it  wont  be a massive  increase

 

I can  therefore appreciate  why Bachmann  may possibly  be  using  their  resources  to  bring  to  market  other  items  which  will bring  them higher  volume  sales and  profit.

[PaulRhB]

Which is why, if they insist on a 4 year delivery strategy, I suggested that they keep quiet for a bit or be realistic at the outset rather than raise hopes. Do that and they CAN win! They have brought it on themselves.

 

At least Bachmann USA seem to be more clued up.

 

(Paul, we will not agree on this, and I will not defend the indefensible, if small companies like Peco and Minitrains with much less resources can deliver within a reasonable timescale there is no excuse for a multi-national such as Bachmann especially when their original announcement (as quoted by Andy in his original post) pointed to their experience with narrow gauge models!)

That's fine Blair and I agree stating at the start that this may take X years would be helpful. I also know from working in small and big companies just how the design process can vary and get delayed. The big company you can get promises of new info or other departments making a mod and then you wait and wait while someone else you can't control takes their time. In a small company you are doing more jobs yourself so you can just get on with it without stepping on departmental toes and upsetting someone elses little empire

It takes much longer in a big company because there are more people to pass through each working on several projects, on holiday etc. Remember Minitrains is pretty much Andreas so there's probably just him, possibly a CAD designer, and then direct to the factory. Small companies are much quicker because there are less people slowing down the process. That I'm afraid is fact. When I worked for RJH which also carried a bigger and diverse range plus had the castings side the boss just called up and said I need X amount of these castings by tonight, drop everything and do it. The castings had several times the margin on the railway kits and to a large extent financed the development of new models because we weren't under such financial pressure to sell as many kits as possible. The sideline that came out of the kit castings ended up more profitable and if the boss had just gone by maximum profit we would have moved further that way but he was a modeller and didn't want all the eggs in one basket. Model companies answering to shareholders don't have that luxury as they are often more interested in the next years dividend than ultimate security.

[Hobby]

"Small is beautiful" eh!

 

Shareholders also start to get worried if they see lots of criticism as well, remember, it's a two edged sword.

 

All I ask is that they tell us (now would be nice, though a bit late in the day!), with just a few words they could get rid of all the moaning!

 

(I can't accept that a company of their size would have the issues you mention, if they wanted to get on with it they could, as their US arm has proved... As I said we will have to agree to differ on that point!)

 

((I take it you are going to bill them for all the PR work you are doing BTW!!    ))

Edited January 11, 2017 by Hobby

[Stevelewis]

Its  interesting  to  note  that  Bachmann USA  have   announced  items in  their  0n30  range  in  the  spring  and    they  have  been  in  the  retailers  well before   the  following  Christmas

[Mike Bellamy]

I seem to recall finding out about the Bachmann On30 two car Railbus back in 2008 on Bachmann's own 'Ask the Bachmann' forum on their USA site. This was because someone had bought one from a shop in Japan where it had been released too early and the main supply was still in a container heading for the States. To start with the official line was that it was nothing to do with them but the original poster had photos of the box and the underside of the model where it quite clearly had the manufacturer's name. Next day the forum administrator admitted it was a Bachmann model but none of the staff knew about it apart from the design team and senior management.

 

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php?action=printpage;topic=6004.0

 

 

.

[PaulRhB]

"Small is beautiful" eh!

 

Shareholders also start to get worried if they see lots of criticism as well, remember, it's a two edged sword.

 

 

((I take it you are going to bill them for all the PR work you are doing BTW!!    ))

Ha! Well I have known some people in the industry although currently no one at Bachmann as my contact has left recently

I did talk to the designer of this though and I'm certain he is excited about it as he is a NG modeller, but his hands are tied

 I do know a bit about how it works though from those contacts but they can't reveal anything more than we get on here but I do trust what I'm told by them about why it takes time. No extra insider info but having worked in a smallish model company I can sympathise with the complaining as rumours got out of hand even before the forums and we wasted a lot of time fielding phone calls as a result. Once you got one after a letter in the Gazette it was usually followed up by another 20!  If you respond it just takes off as you see with the long threads on another maker which he struggles to answer all of the questions in

Edited January 11, 2017 by PaulRhB

[PenrithBeacon]

I can't help but feel that Bachmann must be extremely inefficient in its business processes. New products really shouldn't take this long to bring to market!

[Andy Y]

Bachmann have confirmed to me that delivery is expected November/December 2017.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...All I ask is that they tell us (now would be nice, though a bit late in the day!), with just a few words they could get rid of all the moaning!...

 My experience says it will not. Customer expectation, built up over many years of better performance, cannot be simply wiped away by stating 'it will now take typically  three times as long from announcement to product on sale, compared to what we have previously averaged'; which is I believe a pretty fair assessment based on the observed performance of the business by this customer.

 

I find this performance disappointing, having become accustomed to a steady supply of new introductions from this source from 1999 to 2014; which were well thought out to expand what it was possible to model, principally using RTR product. But there it is, nothing can be done about it, Kader have the right to run their business as they choose, and this is the way they are choosing to operate their Bachmann UK organisation.

[PaulRhB]

Ok so you lot are so disappointed you aren't now going to buy it because of the lead times, fair enough

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Everyone is free to make their own decision on that one. I will buy whatever is offered that suits what I wish to model, and is of acceptable quality and price, irrespective of maker or delay from announcement.

 

I was very happy with the much superior B17 from Hornby when that finally bowled up - I suspect that was four years or so from first announcement to going on sale -  and likewise will happily entertain the purchase of a Bachmann V2 (or three) when that appears. Unless of course a cunning competitor spots the opening, and knocks in a winner before Bachmann get around to producing it; or alternatively I have a sudden burst of DIY activity and produce my own.

[Ronny]

Not sure abut "nothing can be done", is there not evidence that the manufacturers are taking note of the dissatisfaction with these ridiculously long lead times? i.e. listening to their customers?

[Stevelewis]

Bachmann have confirmed to me that delivery is expected November/December 2017.

 

That  would  be  brilliant  I personnally  thought  that 2018  was  a  little  unrealistic  given  the  work  already  done on the  loco,  but  I did speak to Hattons  who sent  me  the  emails to try to get  confirmation, and  later  received  an email from  them confirming  2018, and  saying  that  was  the  info given to them  at  the recent   Bachmann  2017 presentation,  but  who  knows??

 

Time  will  tell .............  After  all  everything  comes  to  he   who  waits........(hopefully!!)

[Roy Langridge]

Not sure abut "nothing can be done", is there not evidence that the manufacturers are taking note of the dissatisfaction with these ridiculously long lead times? i.e. listening to their customers?

I think some manufacturers are being more realistic with their plans, but not all.

 

Hornby seem to have taken a step back, abandoned some plans and seem to be seeking to deliver more quickly.

 

Bachmann howver fill me with no confidence that we will see some of their planned items in a reasonable timeframe (Class 90 for example) and I have doubts that we will ever see some items (e.g. Class 24/1).

 

As a customer one approach is obviously better.

 

Roy

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Not sure abut "nothing can be done", is there not evidence that the manufacturers are taking note of the dissatisfaction with these ridiculously long lead times? i.e. listening to their customers?

 What would constitute evidence of a manufacturer taking note of dissatisfaction? In my book the necessary evidence would be a brisk resumption of 'normal service'.

 

My evidence:

Dapol, may or may not be listening, but they still have OO announcements made in the previous decade not making progress, and plenty of folks observing this.

Hornby, when Sanda Kan were closing down; endless complaint about delays which took years to resolve as they got new contractors engaged and up to speed.

Bachmann, I don't think there's any shortage of input about the discontent, no evidence of a systematic response. (And we know that the Kader operation still has at least some capabilty to move product from announcement to available to purchase in the timescales achieved in the past; so they are definitely making decisions within the business about what progresses, and at what rate.)

 

Any rationally managed business - and I am assuming these were and are - is going to note dissatisfaction among its customers and hopefully respond in order to minimise that. But that's wholly in the hands of that business, there's nothing a customer can do to effect the necessary changes.

[AMJ]

There are a few more releases listed in the new catalogue with full and short cab roofs. One for the Welsh Highland. See other threads on here for details.

[Stevelewis]

I have  noticed  that  Hattons Website  now  shows 'Expected' delivery date  for  the  Baldwin  4-6-0T  to be  November  December  2017!

 

Which dramatically improves their previous info  which  stated  Nov/Dec 2018!

 

That  means  we  could  see  2  RTR 00-9 locos released in the  same year 

[PaulRhB]

I have noticed that Hattons Website now shows 'Expected' delivery date for the Baldwin 4-6-0T to be November December 2017!

 

Which dramatically improves their previous info which stated Nov/Dec 2018!

 

 

That was confirmed two weeks ago Steve

 

Bachmann have confirmed to me that delivery is expected November/December 2017.

[Stevelewis]

That was confirmed two weeks ago Steve

 

 

Thanks  for  correcting  me,     problem  is  I  don't   look on  here  (or  Hattons  website  come  to  that)  all that  often,  more important  things  to  do...modelling  etc!