Hornby king

[Robin Brasher]

No boiler issues with my Hattons bargain King last night.  I ran it for half an hour ( twenty minutes after the chairman's announcements stopped me playing trains) at the Wimborne Railway Society test track. The train was a rake of five crimson and cream coaches that included three Bachmann and two Replica. The Replica brake composite had 'Bachmann made in Hong Kong' written on the chassis so it was a foretaste of what was to come.

 

I thought that Hornby Dublo was the last word but the King ran much more smoothly and quietly than my Hornby Dublo A4 and the front bogie stayed on the track. One advantage of a model 4-6-0 is that it does not have a flangeless pony truck.

[No Decorum]

14 minutes ago, Robin Brasher said:

No boiler issues with my Hattons bargain King last night.  I ran it for half an hour ( twenty minutes after the chairman's announcements stopped me playing trains) at the Wimborne Railway Society test track. The train was a rake of five crimson and cream coaches that included three Bachmann and two Replica. The Replica brake composite had 'Bachmann made in Hong Kong' written on the chassis so it was a foretaste of what was to come.

 

I thought that Hornby Dublo was the last word but the King ran much more smoothly and quietly than my Hornby Dublo A4 and the front bogie stayed on the track. One advantage of a model 4-6-0 is that it does not have a flangeless pony truck.

I assume that’s King Henry III. Interesting. The blue looks a much deeper shade than the washed-out blue on my King Richard II. Still, it’s hard to tell from a photograph. I took a picture of the tender rear of King Richard II which makes the blue look a lot deeper than in the other, better lit pictures. If Hornby has attended to the shade of BR blue, excellent.

[Robin Brasher]

It is King Henry lll,  It is much better than the Lima King Charles ll as well.

[Steamport Southport]

There was two shades of BR Blue. One much lighter than the other. Not including the experimental purple shade.

 

6001, 6009, 6025 and 6026 received the darker shade. The other blue ones got the lighter shade. I don't think all of them were blue though as I think a few remained green.

 

 

 

Jason

[Silver Sidelines]

Hornby have been divesting themselves of yet more Kings.  I never bought King William IV when first released as I had already splashed out on George and Edward.  I would buy a brand new model of William.

 

As the left hand picture shows my model arrived damaged during manufacture.  The edges of the 'hole' in the tender were even green painted.  It had to go back.  The right hand picture is from a replacement 'used' model sourced a few days later.  I have to say it is in much better fettle in all sorts of small ways than the brand new engine.

 

So much we know about Hornby and quality.

 

 

[G-BOAF]

Hornby QC from the factory that makes the King is awful.

I too purchased a 6002 model (bargain, brand new) as a replacement chassis from my KGV with middle driving wheel bearing problem.

 

Just unboxed my new king to find it has the SAME problem - middle top hat bearing not sitting true in chassis.

 

Thankfully, unlike KGV, this is in warranty at time of discovering the problem so I've just messaged Hornby to see what procedures are under current circumstances for replacement (checked prior to dispatch, otherwise could end up with same problem!)

 

I'm very disappointed. Making me wonder if a good proportion of the kings might be like that. Has anyone got a King where the left hand driving wheels don't rock on the middle axle? To properly test you have to lean the loco slightly to the left, so only these driving wheels are on the track, and gently rock back and forth - its about 0.5mm play. Also possible to see slight lean of loco on flat surface. This is definately not as specified by Hornby and must be a major manufacturing fault that needs rectification. Hornby's contractors should not be allowed to get away with such shoddy work. And to reference Silver Sidelines post above, its not just the Chassis that are rubbish...!

Edited April 23, 2020 by G-BOAF

[The Fatadder]

4 minutes ago, G-BOAF said:

I'm very disappointed. Making me wonder if a good proportion of the kings might be like that. Has anyone got a King where the left hand driving wheels don't rock on the middle axle? To properly test you have to lean the loco slightly to the left, so only these driving wheels are on the track, and gently rock back and forth - its about 0.5mm play. This is definately not as specified by Hornby and must be a major manufacturing fault that needs rectification. Hornby's contractors should not be allowed to get away with such shoddy work. And to reference Silver Sidelines post above, its not just the Chassis that are rubbish...!

Other than electrical issues where the DCC socket was wired up to short of you plug a decoder in, that has been the extent of issues I have had with my 3 kings.  However only my 1947 KGV has had prolonged running, will give the centre axles a check tonight (2 are the original GW release and the third came with the Bristolian pack)

[G-BOAF]

Just to reiterate, I suspect this problem mainly affects R34XX batch of models, although as noted above my R3330 had same problem, so there may be some from earlier batches.

Going by pictures online (mainly rails of Sheffiled), the latest GWR model R3534 might be OK.

Anyway, R numbers appreciated in any tests people do.

[TrevorP1]

1 hour ago, G-BOAF said:

I'm very disappointed. Making me wonder if a good proportion of the kings might be like that. Has anyone got a King where the left hand driving wheels don't rock on the middle axle? To properly test you have to lean the loco slightly to the left, so only these driving wheels are on the track, and gently rock back and forth - its about 0.5mm play. Also possible to see slight lean of loco on flat surface. This is definately not as specified by Hornby and must be a major manufacturing fault that needs rectification. Hornby's contractors should not be allowed to get away with such shoddy work. And to reference Silver Sidelines post above, its not just the Chassis that are rubbish...!

 

I've just been out to check my 6029 ( R3332) and it does indeed have the exact problems you mention. Ironic really as it is a good smooth runner. I bought the loco 3 or 4  years back. 

 

With my layout based in Cornwall I have no need of a King but having experienced a run up Whiteball with 6024 from a standing start at Taunton  Rule 1 is firmly applied. My intention is that it will eventually become King John which, in 1960, allegedly made it to Truro at the head of the Cornish Riviera after three diesels failed. Fable or not that's good enough for me!

 

Kings in Cornwall

Edited April 23, 2020 by TrevorP1
Add R number

[gwrrob]

5 hours ago, G-BOAF said:

Just to reiterate, I suspect this problem mainly affects R34XX batch of models, although as noted above my R3330 had same problem, so there may be some from earlier batches.

 

 

That's interesting as I've just bought a brand new and tested before despatch R3408.

 

 

 

[G-BOAF]

15 hours ago, gwrrob said:

 

That's interesting as I've just bought a brand new and tested before despatch R3408.

 

 

 

Yes, I asked for my R3409 to be tested and checked for rocking axles before dispatch and I still ended up with a duff (faulty model, not a Class 47!)!

Don't get me wrong, it runs (although my KGV can hardly move itself on anything other than perfectly flat track), but leans and rocks.

[Silver Sidelines]

4 hours ago, G-BOAF said:

Yes, I asked for my R3409 to be tested and checked .

 

Yes - Some outlets volunteer to check models and even supply a signed card, a bit like the ticky box sheet when the car is serviced.  I have to admit to still sending a supposedly checked model back to the retailer.

 

Cheers Ray

[adb968008]

On 12/03/2020 at 17:30, G-BOAF said:

Restored in 2004, withdrawn with boiler issues in 2013, after a late 2011-2012 gap for tube repairs (according to 3440's Wikipedia entry). I would hardly call this 'years left'

After prolonged tube repairs an extension could have been sought, this is an industry norm.. the “10 year” ticket is a myth in reality, many drop earlier, many have repairs to prolong etc... how many years did Tangmere run ?

 

Edited April 24, 2020 by adb968008

[Silver Sidelines]

On 24/04/2020 at 09:49, G-BOAF said:

.....

Don't get me wrong, it runs .

 

Hello G-BOAF

 

All this talk of poor running has persuaded me to interrupt a BR (NER) runing session and unbox my recently arrived second hand King William IV (R3409).  I am encouraged it runs  well.  On a flat surface I sense that the wheels under the cab are not true but it sits fine on the track.  I have loaded a video with some behind the scenes shots where the engine is struggling on some 1 in 56 gradients.  I had to abandon the controller to take the pictures - hence the frantic wheel spinning.

 

https://youtu.be/L-5fbdPv5uo

 

Whilst unboxing King William one of the tender lamp irons fell off - confirming that the engine had probably not been run.  I disassembled the tender to get a better grip and used Bluetak to hold the lamp iron while I glued it into place.

 

Tender lamp iron - held with BlueTak 

 

Tender lamp iron - refitted              

 

Must go and progress the rhubarb wine.

 

Cheers Ray

Edited April 26, 2020 by Silver Sidelines

[G-BOAF]

20 hours ago, Silver Sidelines said:

 

Hello G-BOAF

 

All this talk of poor running has persuaded me to interrupt a BR (NER) runing session and unbox my recently arrived second hand King William IV (R3409).  I am encouraged it runs  well.  On a flat surface I sense that the wheels under the cab are not true but it sits fine on the track.  I have loaded a video with some behind the scenes shots where the engine is struggling on some 1 in 56 gradients.  I had to abandon the controller to take the pictures - hence the frantic wheel spinning.

 

https://youtu.be/L-5fbdPv5uo

 

Whilst unboxing King William one of the tender lamp irons fell off - confirming that the engine had probably not been run.  I disassembled the tender to get a better grip and used Bluetak to hold the lamp iron while I glued it into place.

 

Tender lamp iron - held with BlueTak 

 

Tender lamp iron - refitted              

 

Must go and progress the rhubarb wine.

 

Cheers Ray

would say it has been run as the DCC socket looks a bit non-original (4 pin blanking plate), unless this is now the norm???

Thanks for the video. Difficult to tell whether you have wheel slipping because of gradients/load or poorly contacting wheels on track.

The wheel under the cab that is out of true if bearings are misaligned is the rear left hand one (as it is the top hat bearing on the left hand side which is lifting things a bit.

 

Lovely layout

[Silver Sidelines]

2 hours ago, G-BOAF said:

would say it has been run as the DCC socket looks a bit non-original (4 pin blanking plate),

 

The wheel under the cab that is out of true if bearings are misaligned is the rear left hand one (as it is the top hat bearing on the left hand side which is lifting things a bit.

 

 

Thanks G_BOAF - I had missed the four pin banking plug.  Yes I would have said that the LH rear driver didn't properly contact the track - so your hypothesis would be correct.  Having said that the engine runs very well and the slipping is no worse than similar models.  In other words too steep for the train.

 

Cheers Ray

[adb968008]

On 26/04/2020 at 15:24, Silver Sidelines said:

 

Hello G-BOAF

 

All this talk of poor running has persuaded me to interrupt a BR (NER) runing session and unbox my recently arrived second hand King William IV (R3409).  I am encouraged it runs  well.  On a flat surface I sense that the wheels under the cab are not true but it sits fine on the track.  I have loaded a video with some behind the scenes shots where the engine is struggling on some 1 in 56 gradients.  I had to abandon the controller to take the pictures - hence the frantic wheel spinning.

 

https://youtu.be/L-5fbdPv5uo

 

Whilst unboxing King William one of the tender lamp irons fell off - confirming that the engine had probably not been run.  I disassembled the tender to get a better grip and used Bluetak to hold the lamp iron while I glued it into place.

 

Tender lamp iron - held with BlueTak 

 

Tender lamp iron - refitted              

 

Must go and progress the rhubarb wine.

 

Cheers Ray

becareful using blutac around glue... blutac wil react to and set it self to the plastic and the glue.. i learned the hard way fitting smokebox door knobs to a castle...only a miniscule amount (less than a dab at the end of cocktail stick) accidentally caught the tac, which was enough to set a 2mm blob of blue tac hard and rip off the paint finish of the door & removed the door handles too when removed... completely welded itself to the plastic, left indelible blue marks on the door.

 

 

Edited April 27, 2020 by adb968008

[Silver Sidelines]

20 hours ago, adb968008 said:

becareful using blutac around glue... blutac wil react to and set it self to the plastic and the glue...

 

 

Thank you for that advice.  I have been lucky.  I try and avoid using 'super glue' but it makes such a strong joint.  I will not use if for name plates and prefer satin or matt varnish.  Most fiddly pieces of plastic can be pressed into their locating hole and glue such as butanone or 'super glue' applied inside from the rear.  I had this in mind when I dismantled William's tender.  However the holes for the lamp irons are seemingly blind holes.  For those of use with aching joints and failing eye sight Bluetak is very useful - varnish next time.

 

Thanks Ray

[Silver Sidelines]

On 27/04/2020 at 12:03, G-BOAF said:

The wheel under the cab that is out of true if bearings are misaligned is the rear left hand one (as it is the top hat bearing on the left hand side which is lifting things a bit.

 

 

Thank you G-BOAF, you are a hard task master.

 

I dismantled William last night:

 

 

and set about making the cavity for the 'top hat' bearing in the Mazac chassis deeper.

 

 

Job done - and if you have a couple of minutes I have posted a second video on YouTube showing the 'fettled' model back in action.

 

 

I would say it is much more controllable.  On the down side it seems to show up more the anomilies in my track laying!

 

Cheers Ray

Edited April 28, 2020 by Silver Sidelines

[G-BOAF]

Certainly looks more sure footted.

Did you scrap both the 'deep' and 'shallow' areas of the top hat gap?

 

In your original blog post on the subject you compared the later batches to the earlier new kings and indicated your locos from the first batch were true and not rocking on the centre axle

[Silver Sidelines]

3 hours ago, G-BOAF said:

Certainly looks more sure footted.

Did you scrap both the 'deep' and 'shallow' areas of the top hat gap?

 

In your original blog post on the subject you compared the later batches to the earlier new kings and indicated your locos from the first batch were true and not rocking on the centre axle

 

Thanks G-BOAF - I did scrape material off both the deep pocket and the inner shallow area.  I didn't make any measurements,  I have a piece of spare Melamine shelving.   I would scrape some of the metal and then I would put the driving wheels back and stand it on the flat surface to check for steadiness.  As a preliminary I had tried the chassis with the centre driver missing, it was rock steady.  It was not a quick exercise but it was finished in time to dig the garden this morning.

 

I have had to go back and read my previous Blog Post(s).  There was one in 2015 about King Edward and another in 2017 about King George. 

 

 

 

 

 

I bought Edward (R3332) in 2016 and then I think I bought King William (R3409) before sending it back because the boiler was marked by the vacuum packaging.  I was advised that all models were similarly afflicted so I took my money.  Shortly afterwards there was a deluge of Georges (R3384) - and I bought one where the sound had been removed.  Later I bought another even cheaper with TTS sound still fitted which was given to the original model (and sold) whilst the second engine was fitted with a LokSound chip to play on Analogue. 

 

 

Interestingly my Blog shows that I fitted some lead to George's firebox.  You will see from the latest videos that this hasn't been necessary this time round for William.

 

Edward (R3332) was my first and oldest 'new' King.  It has been trouble free and has not had any chasiss modifications or any additional lead.

 

I wonder if any of this helps.

 

Cheers Ray

 

 

Edited April 28, 2020 by Silver Sidelines

[Silver Sidelines]

In a past Blog I commented that I had added lead to Hornby R3384 aka King George I 6006.  After playing with 'William' I had another look at George and discovered that the centre drivers were not touching the track at all.  Three days later it is sorted - I will write a new Post for my Blog.  In the meantime a video - it still struggles up the hills but no lead now.

 

 

Cheers Ray

 

PS George is fitted with a LokSound 5 Micro (running on analogue) with a Coastal Sounds Project, thank you Kevin at Coastal DCC.

Edited May 10, 2020 by Silver Sidelines

[atom3624]

Quick run of my renumbered 6025 to King Edward II 6023 on a circle of 4th radius track.

 

Fantastically smooth, with a real turn of speed!!

 

 

 

Al.

[MikeParkin65]

On 28/04/2020 at 13:54, Silver Sidelines said:

 

Thank you for that advice.  I have been lucky.  I try and avoid using 'super glue' but it makes such a strong joint.  I will not use if for name plates and prefer satin or matt varnish.  Most fiddly pieces of plastic can be pressed into their locating hole and glue such as butanone or 'super glue' applied inside from the rear.  I had this in mind when I dismantled William's tender.  However the holes for the lamp irons are seemingly blind holes.  For those of use with aching joints and failing eye sight Bluetak is very useful - varnish next time.

 

Thanks Ray

I use Tacky Wax for temporarily holding small items in these circumstances - doesnt leave a mark. Also use Glue and Glaze for nameplates - holds firm but can be removed if required, only trick is to catch just at the point it is going off otherwise it won't take.

[atom3624]

For the renamed 6025 --> 6023 King Edward II in the video, I used black-tack (tackywax I suppose).

VERY small slither stretched along the length of the middle then even spread a little to within a mm or so of the edges - it will move if touched, but easily re-aligned and removed if required.

 

Al.