Oxfordrail - Adams Radial

[PhilJ W]

An epitaph in a graveyard?

[Danim]

how about you take it as a telegram such as 

His past is hidden from me now STOP

But be quite clear I make this vow STOP

To find the truth of why he went STOP

Those buried thoughts that he has sent STOP

 

 

so the question is what locos would have been is use from the demise of the telegram around 1907 or before as that would give us an idea of the sort of locos oxford are doing

Edited October 22, 2014 by Danim

[Loconuts]

Hi all,  This is a hoax, no railway loco but an advert for the new iphone which will go round 18 inch curves with its new bendy case.  Be sensible boys, you are acting like little kids at Christmas trying to guess whats under the tree.

We have another player in 4mm scale, good a bit more competition for the rest of the trade.  Lets hope that the new setup has got some serious and experienced modelers on board (unlike some of the other manufacturers) to check on the pre-production items before the company releases them on the British paying public.  But will the British 4mm market stand another RTR manufacturer, I am not sure, we have seen this before with the result of casualties left by the wayside.

There are a lot of prototypes out there to produce but Britain's railways were divided into companies or regions unless you are modeling BR.  This means the potential sales of any prototype are reduced, so making the UK a very small market with too many manufacturers chasing that market.

I hear mentioned duplication of models, this is something I found when I modeled in 4mm scale and 7mm scale from the kit manufacturers.  As soon as a model is announced by one manufacture a number of others were climbing on the bandwagon.

If I personally looking to get into the RTR market in the UK and wanted a niche market i would look at the 7mm scale narrow gauge market.  With smaller houses it is a good size for building layouts to fit and as most narrow gauge layouts are freelance, models from different railways can be mixed together.  RTR models would be welcomed by existing modelers and it would attract new modelers from other scales who want to model in 7mm scale but have not got the room.  The big plus is there would be no competition from other manufacturers.  Bachmann got it right with their 0n30 American range.

 

Loconuts

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi all,  This is a hoax, no railway loco but an advert for the new iphone which will go round 18 inch curves with its new bendy case.  Be sensible boys, you are acting like little kids at Christmas trying to guess whats under the tree.

We have another player in 4mm scale, good a bit more competition for the rest of the trade.  Lets hope that the new setup has got some serious and experienced modelers on board (unlike some of the other manufacturers) to check on the pre-production items before the company releases them on the British paying public.  But will the British 4mm market stand another RTR manufacturer, I am not sure, we have seen this before with the result of casualties left by the wayside.

There are a lot of prototypes out there to produce but Britain's railways were divided into companies or regions unless you are modeling BR.  This means the potential sales of any prototype are reduced, so making the UK a very small market with too many manufacturers chasing that market.

I hear mentioned duplication of models, this is something I found when I modeled in 4mm scale and 7mm scale from the kit manufacturers.  As soon as a model is announced by one manufacture a number of others were climbing on the bandwagon.

If I personally looking to get into the RTR market in the UK and wanted a niche market i would look at the 7mm scale narrow gauge market.  With smaller houses it is a good size for building layouts to fit and as most narrow gauge layouts are freelance, models from different railways can be mixed together.  RTR models would be welcomed by existing modelers and it would attract new modelers from other scales who want to model in 7mm scale but have not got the room.  The big plus is there would be no competition from other manufacturers.  Bachmann got it right with their 0n30 American range.

 

Loconuts

Hi Loconuts

 

I have put in bold a paragraph because it reminded me of what was said about diesel models 20 years ago, all the mainline classes I have scratchbuilt or converted from RTR , Classes 15, 16, 17, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25/3, 26, 27, 28, 29, 31, 37, 40, 41, 44, 46, 47, 55, LMS Co-Co, SR 1Co-Co1, Lion, Flacon, DP2, and Kestrel are now (or will be) available in RTR. I for one am willing to see where this enthusiasm will take us.

 

Whoops I forgot 10800, Hawk, it is sitting in full view just below the computer screen.

Edited October 22, 2014 by Clive Mortimore

[Arthur]

Be sensible boys,

 

Loconuts

If the Good Lord had intended us to be sensible he wouldn't have given us model railways.

 

 

 

you are acting like little kids at Christmas trying to guess whats under the tree.

 

Loconuts

Yep, and lovin' it.

[newbryford]

There's a further problem, for those of us who like being able to buy 'good kitbuild quality' rolling stock to enable a fairly extensive operation to be modelled without having to build and finish hundreds of vehicles from kits.

 

As Dave Jones has candidly admitted, he's only working on locos, because that's where the best returns are to be obtained. Other than Bach and Hornby, look at all the other active RTR OO suppliers and commissioners proposed new introductions.

Heljan, locos

Dapol, locos (have they got any more wagon introductions listed, I don't know?)

Rapido, MU

DJM, locos

Hattons, locos

Kernow, mostly locos

Model Rail, locos

Rail Express, locos

Rails of Sheffield, loco

New Australian/UK entrant, locos

Oxford mystery play, looks like a loco.

 

I've probably missed a few, but the loco-centricity of production plans is inescapably on view.

 

 

 

In the UK, there's FTG models who buck the trend of going for locos.

 

Don't forget Realtrack - DMU's

 

Cheers,

Mick

[newbryford]

And with a late entry on the new model front....
 
I reckon it's an APT-E.
 
Cheers,
Mick

Edited October 22, 2014 by newbryford

[PhilJ W]

It might be an optical illusion but the more you look at the 'countdown' picture the more detail seems to appear.

[stewartingram]

Does this help or confuse us more? More Photoshopping....

 

 

I think that could be a single whhel (pony/bogie?)

 

Stewart

[Bulleidnutter]

Correct me if I'm wrong but is that not a LSWR T3.

[Sr-Dixon]

Forgive my crudeness but isn't the angle connecting the buffer beam and smoke box more curved on a t3?

Edited October 23, 2014 by Sr-Dixon

[Loconuts]

Hi Guys,  I agree with the statement from Clive, you put in a lot of work in creating a model only to have someone come along and produce a RTR model of the same prototype.

I had a discussion with a friend in the retail trade about this rush to produce model locos, it is all down to the collectors, guys that have to be first in the queue and purchase several models at a time only to salt them away for the day they can bring them out and put them on e-bay.

This dictates the models produced by the manufacturers, they want to do models they can get mileage from, different names and liveries, whether they are correct for those names and liveries does not matter as long as the collectors are willing to buy.

They are not interested in rolling stock, that only appeals to modelers which is a small market.

I would suggest that as Oxford Rail is tied up with Oxford Diecast, this is the market they are going for and it is a Adams Radial as this can be produced in several liveries to get as much profit from it to cover the tooling costs.

Going back to what Clive said, I can remember the 1960's when letters appeared in the Model Press asking Manufacturers to produce certain prototypes only to be answered with there is no demand.  One in particular was a Q1 and one was produced a few years ago, how did it sell seeing there was no demand.  Please who ever produced it to answer, it would be interesting to see how the demand really was.

Yes there are a lot of pre-grouping models out there which ran well into BR days, Reading Southern shed was a good example of ancient machines before it closed down in the 1950's.

I just hope that what ever they produce they get the scale right, but I think they will not as they are aiming at the world market and everyone one else but us British produce models in HO and 1/4 scale.

 

Loconuts 

[HillsideDepot]

Perhaps that is a "generic" locomotive which will be their logo for the range and its not actually anything that they are producing....

[Loconuts]

Hi Adrian

Keep out of this, this is my space, you have Dapol to worry!!!!!!!!!  Anyway if these guys don't do rolling stock all well and good for your range.

 

Loconuts

[HillsideDepot]

Hi Adrian

Keep out of this, this is my space, you have Dapol to worry!!!!!!!!!  Anyway if these guys don't do rolling stock all well and good for your range.

 

Loconuts

 

Different Adrian I am afraid (I think I know who you mean though).

 

My rolling stock requirements are pretty much satisfied, to be honest, although a 116/117/118 DMU would be of interest should any manufacturer wish to indulge me. I am a fortunate that I can watch all this excitement from the sidelines.

[Loconuts]

Hi Adrian

Sorry about that, having just spoken to Adrianabs I thought it was he.

 

Loconuts

[Andy Y]

Hi Adrian

Sorry about that, having just spoken to Adrianabs I thought it was he.

 

Loconuts

 

Yes; you do sound quite alike in outlook and tone.

[Dunsignalling]

Hi Guys,  I agree with the statement from Clive, you put in a lot of work in creating a model only to have someone come along and produce a RTR model of the same prototype.

I had a discussion with a friend in the retail trade about this rush to produce model locos, it is all down to the collectors, guys that have to be first in the queue and purchase several models at a time only to salt them away for the day they can bring them out and put them on e-bay.

This dictates the models produced by the manufacturers, they want to do models they can get mileage from, different names and liveries, whether they are correct for those names and liveries does not matter as long as the collectors are willing to buy.

They are not interested in rolling stock, that only appeals to modelers which is a small market.

I would suggest that as Oxford Rail is tied up with Oxford Diecast, this is the market they are going for and it is a Adams Radial as this can be produced in several liveries to get as much profit from it to cover the tooling costs.

Going back to what Clive said, I can remember the 1960's when letters appeared in the Model Press asking Manufacturers to produce certain prototypes only to be answered with there is no demand.  One in particular was a Q1 and one was produced a few years ago, how did it sell seeing there was no demand.  Please who ever produced it to answer, it would be interesting to see how the demand really was.

Yes there are a lot of pre-grouping models out there which ran well into BR days, Reading Southern shed was a good example of ancient machines before it closed down in the 1950's.

I just hope that what ever they produce they get the scale right, but I think they will not as they are aiming at the world market and everyone one else but us British produce models in HO and 1/4 scale.

 

Loconuts 

I think you are largely right about the collector market influencing much of what gets picked for production. However, if it were the whole story, the unique range of UK scales would have begun to erode long ago.

 

Most collectors are not interested in running their models, and many don't even disturb the packaging so they shouldn't be bothered what scale the models are. The fact is that the UK r-t-r market is too small to be sustainable for the bigger players unless they can keep both collectors and modellers happy. Moreover, much of the secondary market where the collector/speculators make their profit from is driven by modellers who missed out at release or have only become interested in particular prototypes after the models have been discontinued.    

 

As for Oxford Diecast (of whose non-railway products I am a big fan), there has been a recent foray into HO with some 1940s/50s/60s Yank tin but most of their existing ranges match the British scales of N, OO and O and aircraft at 1:72 so I don't think we have much to fear.

 

In any case, they are smart enough to know that models of British prototypes made to other scales generally sink without trace (Lima, Fleischmann and, oh yes, whatever did happen to Heljan's HO Class 37?).

 

John

Edited October 23, 2014 by Dunsignalling

[Loconuts]

Hi, yes you are right Andy, Adrianabs and I have been friends for a long time and I respect his knowledge of the British Rolling stock world. He also has a vast knowledge of Southern Steam.  We both gained our modeling knowledge in exactly the same way by modifying the ghastly offerings of the trade in the 50's and 60's and yes we did manage to turn out very decent layouts.

I also have the experience of Pendon behind me and the help of the likes of Guy Williams and Roy England, using their advice I progressed into a higher standard, first in 4mm scale and then in 7mm scale.  I now model the scene on the other side of the pond in 1/4 scale.  There are a lot of scratch builders over there, they don't all buy of the shelf and if they do they usually enhance the model with better detail fittings.  Something I believe British guys are not doing, I may be wrong and stand to be corrected by those more knowledgeable about the current modeling scene.

Both Adrianabs and I believe that the trade is dumbing down the hobby due to the collectors after so many in the hobby have tried to raise the standard.

John, I agree with what you state, just wish Oxford Diecast would do some 1:48 1930's/40's American vehicles.  All the American model vehicles seem to be produced to 1:43 which I find strange as the railway stuff is produced to 1:48.

Anyway my money is still on a Adams Radial.

 

Loconuts

[RJS1977]

Complete Speculation - actually just plain old guessing, on my part ...

 

Ixion recently said this on these very forums ...

 

"3. O Scale Locomotive

Ixion is also collaborating with another UK company on the production of a ready-to-run 7mm scale standard gauge steam locomotive suitable for both the UK and Australian markets. More information about this model will be available soon." 

 

Flying Scotsman? Pendennis Castle?

[Arthur]

 

 

There are a lot of scratch builders over there, they don't all buy of the shelf and if they do they usually enhance the model with better detail fittings.  Something I believe British guys are not doing, I may be wrong and stand to be corrected by those more knowledgeable about the current modeling scene.

I

Loconuts

 

 

Not my impression of the US vs UK scene at all.

 

The vast bulk of US modellers (in HO and N) have for years run the high quality RTR models supplied by the likes of Atlas, Kato and others. Yes, sometimes worked on, but that's as common here if not more so. Brass was, and is, usually RTR from the Far East, almost never kit built.

 

Certainly in past years, when our RTR lagged well behind, we had to get involved in serious RTR hacking. I've posted myself examples of the extreme lengths we once had to go to to get a half decent model from some of the RTR efforts of the 80's. As for today, look on here on at the countless examples of improved and weathered modern RTR.

 

I suspect there are, proportionally, as many, if not more, scratch builders over here, and as for loco kit building, the UK has always led the way. Examples of kit building locos in the US magazines are as rare as hens teeth, but they still feature on a regular basis in all of our magazines. Maybe not as much as in previous years but that's largely, in my opinion, because of our improved RTR offerings.

 

So I disagree fundamentally that the US is full of skilled modellers and that we're all 'collectors'.

[PhilJ W]

Does this help or confuse us more? More Photoshopping....

 

fog3.1.jpg

 

I think that could be a single whhel (pony/bogie?)

 

Stewart

On the original there is what looks like the beginnings of a dome and outside steam pipes.

[adrianbs]

Hi All  This is the real  adrianbs.!!   Judging by the comments of most contributors on other RTR sites I watch, it would appear  the day of the builder as opposed to the buyer is coming to a sticky end.    However, also judging by the standard of some recent and proposed RTR products, the extreme lengths we will have to go to in order to get half decent models is markedly on the rise.  Many are so poor that "extreme lengths" may only result in a "Half" decent model even after significant additional  cost and hours of work.

 

   At the moment the lists of forthcoming new steam locos, diesels and M,Us  in their varied liveries and numbering, which are supposed to appear in the next year or so, is rapidly approaching the 200 mark. One range alone now lists close on 100 variants being produced under various labels  yet has never sold a single model to date.   Many of the companies appear to be running at a loss or on borrowed money and facing massive cost increases if their manufacturing base is China.  Most have had major delays in production and consequent loss of turnover with products being years behind projected release dates.  This has had an adverse effect on the retailers and with the rumoured changes to Hornby's trade discount level, may well see the demise of many of the remaining high street shops specialising in model railways.

 

    Although the most vociferous all seem to be RTR collectors there is, fortunately, a silent but large minority who still enjoy building either kits or from scratch  They have no need to froth and make inane comments on the RTR forums as they get on with the hobby without the need of the RTR ranges to a large extent. Many would be glad if more attention was given to making 4mm locos easier to convert to EM or P4 or something in between, and would be happy to buy  RTR rolling stock if only it were more accurate but as most RTR models are dupicates of existing kits they can ignore them in general.  They may not spend fortunes on RTR but it is their layouts which we see at the model railway exhibitions, not the cupboards full of unopened RTR boxes.

   

    Yet another entrant to the OO market, with what appears to be more than just one new product in the pipeline, may well be the final straw for some companies if the British economy fails to maintain it's current but very fragile forward momentum.  The rest of Europe is in trouble and  "When Europe sneezes -----  "   

                 Regards all  adrianbs

[BlackRat]

How can you have a 'large minority'?

 

And folks, Kernow will surprise most of you, if not ALL of you! ;-)

Edited October 24, 2014 by BlackRat

['CHARD]

How can you have a 'large minority'?

 

'A large minority of the English population are active supporters of a league football team.'

 

It may sound a contradiction in terms, but it is a useful (and frequently condescending, as I have hinted above) relative term to put something in context.