Hornby's Warley Announcements.

[Ian Hargrave]

I think I do...

 

IMG_1318 - Copy.JPG

Herr Doktor Giesl would approve.

[Ian Hargrave]

But only if you model post the installation, which was circa 1961?

But if the aim is to have a pair chronologically in synch with the 50th anniversary then not. We shall see how the foam settles. A thought,though.....

[Dunsignalling]

34064 presents tooling problems.You must know why that is so?

Only if you want it in post-1962 condition.............

[Guest Belgian]

34064 presents tooling problems.You must know why that is so?

But Hornby could get two releases out of it . . .   

 

JE

[Ian Hargrave]

Only if you want it in post-1962 condition.............

Read post 452 above

[darren01]

Looking at Hornby doing a MN with the casing and would they do one or not,I spoke to Mr Konler at the Coventry show and asked would Hornby do one?...

Mr Konler said that Hornby would not do one as they had looked at doing one and found that there was to may versions in the class and was a bit of a mine field, Yes it would be nice to have one, but i don't think we will see it from them?.

But we may see one from someone else in the future, i live in hope.

Darren 

[Ian Hargrave]

Looking at Hornby doing a MN with the casing and would they do one or not,I spoke to Mr Konler at the Coventry show and asked would Hornby do one?...

Mr Konler said that Hornby would not do one as they had looked at doing one and found that there was to may versions in the class and was a bit of a mine field, Yes it would be nice to have one, but i don't think we will see it from them?.

But we may see one from someone else in the future, i live in hope.

Darren

 

Which is in substance what Chris Leigh was saying in 442 above

[Forester]

Looking at Hornby doing a MN with the casing and would they do one or not,I spoke to Mr Konler at the Coventry show and asked would Hornby do one?...

Mr Konler said that Hornby would not do one as they had looked at doing one and found that there was to may versions in the class and was a bit of a mine field, Yes it would be nice to have one, but i don't think we will see it from them?.

 

It didn't stop Hornby having a big success with the original WC/BBs, where there were wide and narrow cabs, 4500 and 5500 gal tenders, different safety valve locations, small, large (and extended large) deflectors, casing differences around the cylinders, speedo and battery mixes ......

One version of the MN would cover two thirds of the class for most of the lifetime of the unrebuilts.

Still, no doubt another producer will pick up the opportunity.

[Budgie]

The SECR Wainwright H 0-4-4T class seems like a long-shot to me. It's highly polled but with the LSWR Drummond M7 still in the range perhaps it's a bit redundant.

Take that to its logical conclusion. With one 4-6-2 in the range, perhaps another is a bit redundant.

[Ian Hargrave]

It didn't stop Hornby having a big success with the original WC/BBs, where there were wide and narrow cabs, 4500 and 5500 gal tenders, different safety valve locations, small, large (and extended large) deflectors, casing differences around the cylinders, speedo and battery mixes ......

One version of the MN would cover two thirds of the class for most of the lifetime of the unrebuilts.

Still, no doubt another producer will pick up the opportunity.

With no surviving prototype to scan that's going to be a tough one to do

[stewartingram]

Why the fuss about scanning? We all managed before they were invented.

 

Stewart

[pete_mcfarlane]

Why the fuss about scanning? We all managed before they were invented.

 

Stewart

They managed to do a P2 and a 2-Hal without real ones to laser scan so Hornby can still manage without it. 

[Oldddudders]

But Hornby could get two releases out of it . . .   

 

JE

I think they've already done 34064 in grey?

[Guest Belgian]

I think they've already done 34064 in grey?

That makes three . . . I meant two locomotives . . .

 

JE

[Bernard Lamb]

Looking at Hornby doing a MN with the casing and would they do one or not,I spoke to Mr Konler at the Coventry show and asked would Hornby do one?...

Mr Konler said that Hornby would not do one as they had looked at doing one and found that there was to may versions in the class and was a bit of a mine field, Yes it would be nice to have one, but i don't think we will see it from them?.

But we may see one from someone else in the future, i live in hope.

Darren 

Funny that it did not stop them doing the A3 and A4.

Or do they have a bigger/richer following?

Hint to Hornby. Still one tender variant required.

Bernard

[Ian Hargrave]

I think they've already done 34064 in grey?

One commissioned several years ago by the now departed 'Much Ado About Toys' of Stratford on Avon (whose empty premises I coincidentally passed on Thursday evening).It seems to command a high price on the bay of tears.

[Ravenser]

It's a reasonable assumption that the unannounced items that appeared at Warley were there because Hornby were aware of duplicates being announced or intended . The rest were there because the release was imminent.

 

This points - to me - to someone else being rumoured to be working on LMS suburbans . Given what's in the public domain in terms of intentions , that would suggest Oxford Diecast might be thinking about having a go. Let's hope they now decide to do something else, and the tooling budget gets to expand choice

 

Given that they did not show a Q6 , and DJM have announced one, Hornby aren't working on one. (Why show the 71 but not the Q6 if both were duplicated. Especially as a Q6 for 2015 would be further advanced than the Hornby 71?) 

 

The Class 71 seems to be intended for the 2016 range, and with most of the 2014 range not yet out and the recent comments about "how long can the arms race in new tooling go on?" on Simon Says, I would not expect more than 2 additional locos . An extra wagon or coach seems plausible. We've seen the new coach range for 2015 in the LMS suburbans, but I think a new model of the SR luggage van for the 50th anniversary of Churchill's funeral is a shrewd bet. The old Triang model has sold very well for many years , Hornby have a recent track record in doing parcels stock , and have likewise a record with Southern coaches.

 

(I therefore confidently predict a lot of postings in 12 montrs time saying (a that the delay in getting the commemorative set into the shops until  Feb 2016 means Hornby have missed the market and (b that they wouldn't be buying it anyway because 34061 is modelled without the Giesl and this shows Margate's incompetence/contempt for the market)

 

So we can expect 1-2 steam locos and possibly a modern traction item to be awaiting announcement. The sensible steam candidates would include a retooled B12 (this must be due to happen soon), a Bugatti front P2, an S15, or possibly a Lord Nelson.  It's very difficult to think of any LMS candidates - the Stanier 0-4-4Ts are ruled out by the presence of the Radial - you won't get more than 1 pretty vintage tank per year - and beyond that you have no pre-group 0-6-0s flagging up strongly in the polls in the way J15, J11 and 700 class have. Short of reissuing the Lima J50 in the Railroad range on the current 0-6-0 chassis - and considering some of the ex Lima tat that's featured there, they have done worse things  - I can't see any other obvious LNER candidates . So many options have been taken off the table in the last 5 years since the LNER Consensus thread

 

The B12 does have the merit of inside cylinders and no valve gear - which commended it to Triang in 1962 and which featured strongly in last year's announcements

 

I suspect there could be a modern image item. The suggestion of a retooled 86 has a lot to commend it . The alternative would be a new 2 car DMU - the last 2 years have featured a 2 car EMU and thismight be seen asa direct equivalent  . A Modernisation Plan unit might make sense - say Class 104, and the second generation alternative would be to retool the 156, though this may not be an urgent matter. They might even retool the 142. I suspect a 3 car 120 would be seen as a step too far , but a first generation unit would certainly sell into the large steam/diesel market, and should be as good a commercial proposition as a Maunsell 2 car EMU

[Ian Hargrave]

Funny that it did not stop them doing the A3 and A4.

Or do they have a bigger/richer following?

Hint to Hornby. Still one tender variant required.

Bernard

Point succinctly made.However it does occur to me that scanning is now so common that it has become an industry norm and because of this,production won't function without it. TheA3/4 were a decade or more ago.Maybe there is no one around with the necessary skills to do it the old fashioned way.That would not surprise me.Agree it doesn't account for theP2 and Southern Electrics,though.

Are you listening,Dave Jones.....? Now that's a thought...

[Andy Y]

However it does occur to me that scanning is now so common that it has become an industry norm and because of this,production won't function without it. TheA3/4 were a decade or more ago.Maybe there is no one around with the necessary skills to do it the old fashioned way.That would not surprise me.

 

The skills are still very much evident within the established manufacturers; the lead designer of Bachmann's Blue Pullman is younger than you or I and I've seen the crammed full reference folders he was working from; probably one of the more challenging projects achieved to date where there wasn't a handy preserved example to go and scan. Similarly Hornby have worked from masses of reference material for a number of projects where there's no prototype available.

 

It can certainly be more cost effective for a business to not just arrange a scan but have that point cloud data converted into a form where further CAD work from reference material can be carried out rather than starting from scratch with a mouse and screen so this can impact on the viability of a project and influence its end price.

 

Scans aren't a cure all anyway as a lot of the data is very dirty and needs working with rather than working from so I think the skillset in dealing with scan data will preserve the CAD skills for those instances in the future where the prototype is long gone.

[stewartingram]

Does anyone know when the LMS horsebox announced at Warley, is due?

 

Stewart

[Mike Storey]

You are a bully! Back in early 1993, I was with one Phil Rowe in his office near Kings Cross, and we needed to consult you on something. Phil rang your number, and I heard him say "Oh, hello Mike, I've got Ian with me, and he says he'd like to stick a red hot poker right up....". He then admitted you hadn't answered the phone. At the time I felt his suggestion a little harsh. Now I'm not so sure.

 

I think he was the one more likely to want to do that, because I kept interrupting his habit of marking music scores whilst supposedly listening intently at our project progress meetings, and asking awkward questions like "why do we need a cricket net to catch the tickets coming out of the APTIS printer?".....Remember that?!

 

Seriously - I must obtain an invite to get past the menagerie to see just how many layouts you have squeezed into one barn!!! Is it an old aircraft hangar or was the Hindenberg parked in there once? Will Hornby ever be able to fill it?

[Andy Y]

Does anyone know when the LMS horsebox announced at Warley, is due?

 

Stewart

 

Pure guesswork Stewart but I'd say early-ish in the New Year.

[doublecee]

The skills are still very much evident within the established manufacturers; the lead designer of Bachmann's Blue Pullman is younger than you or I and I've seen the crammed full reference folders he was working from; probably one of the more challenging projects achieved to date where there wasn't a handy preserved example to go and scan. Similarly Hornby have worked from masses of reference material for a number of projects where there's no prototype available.

 

It can certainly be more cost effective for a business to not just arrange a scan but have that point cloud data converted into a form where further CAD work from reference material can be carried out rather than starting from scratch with a mouse and screen so this can impact on the viability of a project and influence its end price.

 

Scans aren't a cure all anyway as a lot of the data is very dirty and needs working with rather than working from so I think the skillset in dealing with scan data will preserve the CAD skills for those instances in the future where the prototype is long gone.

 

To add to this:

 

You can scan for a few reasons...

 

1: Complete scan, with all point cloud data cleaned up and a solid Pre Cad model delivered (as is the service I provide)

2: Reference scan. Further on down the project when (lets say for arguments sake) a prototype was not available (in service perhaps) and work was done from drawings. When the asset is available, you scan it so you can compare the drawings with the scan. All data treated as above.

3: Scanning a few different assets of the same class, to identify any subtle differences.

 

But its not just stock that can be scanned. Buildings, infrastructure and line-side details are also prime subjects.

 

Like Visual effects in film (the core of my business), we don't scan for the sake of scanning or because its de-rigour. Great data is for nought if its not passed on to a skilled artist (I use the term artist because I prefer to call the CAD teams that work at the main model train manufacturers Artist / Engineers). Scanning will never ever take the place of these tireless indivduals. Scan Data is dense and complex, and you can never tool from it. Even at the lowest resolution, a processed laser scan handed to one of our model rail clients will still have in excess of 5 million Polygons. Sometimes as many as 30 Million. In comparison, the Film stuff I do can go as high as half a billion polygons! One of the other reasons to capture in 3D is because it negates the need for repeat visits to a site to re-measure and double check (which happens). 

 

So, scanning ( like Visual Effects in a film) is a tool, to be used to tell a broader story. In our hobby's sense, the story is the finished product, and the scanning helps expedite that story. But it doesn't TELL the story. What it does do is remove any margin of error, and gives the nay-sayers nowhere to go in terms of pointing out errors etc. It streamlines the R&D, and as you will see from all of the manufacturers that use it, it helps bring product to the shelf quicker.

 

But those core CAD skills employed after the scan are always going to be the epicentre of Model Train design. More so when you think of all those prototypes that are no longer in existence, and gone to the big scanner in the sky.

 

Ive been doing this for many years, and have scanned many thousands of assets for the big screen, from Spy Drones to space ships, Container ships to milk cartons, steam trains to train stations and countless alien worlds... and despite the perceived glamour of the movie world, you will never find me at most happiest than when I am trackside, scanning a living breathing Steam Train. 

 

So, just to clarify... please don't delude yourself to the fact that scanning is the be all and end all. Its not. But it is THE (and I cant stress the "THE" enough) most accurate way to measure something that has complex width, height and depth. 

[Ian Hargrave]

So all of these posts say,in effect,there is no major obstacle other than cost in the tooling and manufacture of an airsmoothed MN in OO..

 

So,if Bachmann have done one in N,then they can progress to produce one in OO...or even two .

[KGV]

An open letter:

 

Dear fellow GWR fans,

 

do we really need or want anything more announced by Hornby this year? We have the King and Hall to look forward to already (or not, depending on your preference) and at last there is another Collett liveried Castle on the way (March reputedly).

 

GWR enthusiasts have had an embarrassment of riches recently.

 

The only GWR locomotive I am expecting to be announced by Hornby any time soon is the Limited Edition King for the STEAM Museum.

My prediction is that this will be 6000 in as-preserved condition (i.e. BR Green with early emblem).