Kernow GWR steam rail motor

[Steamport Southport]

I've given up asking kernow at shows regarding updates to the Railmotor I just get a smile and a "still working on it" response.

 

Maybe in a decade they might reply "we were working on it"

 

Give it to someone else to do, it's taking forever....... or at least do what hattons did with the king and say we are no longer doing it, even Heljan gave the 'occasional' update on the night owl.

 

Have they?

 

How come I can still order one? 

 

 

http://www.hattons.co.uk/88229/DJ_Models_Dave_Jones_HK03DCC_Class_6000_King_4_6_0_6021_King_Richard_II_in_GWR_lined_green_with_shirtbutton_l/StockDetail.aspx

 

 

I know it's OT.

 

 

 

 

Jason

[Barry Ten]

Kernow are a good retailer, one I've supported, and will continue to do so, and I've got sympathy for those who seem happy to wait for this long-promised model, but jwd and others are right, I think, to express their frustration. Yes, you can maybe build a railmotor (although it's definitely at the hard end of kit or scratch construction) but in the meantime there's a limbo in which a model is possibly going to appear, possibly not, possibly in conjunction with some manufacturer and possibly not, and it's been going on for literally years, effectively guaranteeing that no other manufacturer is likely to have a go. It's the same with the Warships; yes, I know there are giimmers of progress but they were already looking very seriously delayed when I visited KMRC in 2012. Think about that. 2012. That's six years ago. WW2 only took six years. I know the Railmotor is "only" 4 years since announcement but that's still a ridiculously long time.

[JSpencer]

Kernow are a good retailer, one I've supported, and will continue to do so, and I've got sympathy for those who seem happy to wait for this long-promised model, but jwd and others are right, I think, to express their frustration. Yes, you can maybe build a railmotor (although it's definitely at the hard end of kit or scratch construction) but in the meantime there's a limbo in which a model is possibly going to appear, possibly not, possibly in conjunction with some manufacturer and possibly not, and it's been going on for literally years, effectively guaranteeing that no other manufacturer is likely to have a go. It's the same with the Warships; yes, I know there are giimmers of progress but they were already looking very seriously delayed when I visited KMRC in 2012. Think about that. 2012. That's six years ago. WW2 only took six years. I know the Railmotor is "only" 4 years since announcement but that's still a ridiculously long time.

 

The Bulleids and D6xx required extra research because the 2 types no longer exist. As originally commissioned, I believe they were expecting the manufacturer to do the research and design work. These projects were bound to take 4 years minimum because basically you cannot visit and measure the thing up. Delay's occurred once the manufacturer proved unable to get a decent amount of progress/research which lead to some divorce , some jangling over who was going to make them and finally doing all/most of it in house themselves.

The Steam railcar won't have that issue of research, but Kernow being a small family firm having forked out huge sums over the past couple of years (4-TC, Bulleids, D6xx, gate stock etc) getting these projects underway and delivered are doubtless waiting for breathing room to recover resources first before moving to the next.

Normally the D6xx should have been out at least 3 years ago but did not due to various troubles, the Bulleids finally getting under way with a 'lucky' find (some research will be either right away or needing an awful lot of digging - I've been through archives, they are generally badly indexed, what looks a promising title can lead to nothing, and what looks unlikely can be a gold mine!).

 

I have every confidence that end of 2018, they will have open waters and resources to push their other projects forwards now that they know how to manage these things themselves (which they did not know 5 years ago).

 

But agree the wait has been long. This does have a side effect though. If other makers think you have no chance of delivering it in a reasonable time scale, they will gazump you now. As Accurascale said "if you snooze, you loose". This is going to hit manufacturers whom are notoriously slow.

[No Decorum]

I have every confidence that end of 2018, they will have open waters and resources to push their other projects forwards now that they know how to manage these things themselves (which they did not know 5 years ago).

 

But agree the wait has been long. This does have a side effect though. If other makers think you have no chance of delivering it in a reasonable time scale, they will gazump you now. As Accurascale said "if you snooze, you loose". This is going to hit manufacturers whom are notoriously slow.

I hope you’re right about things speeding up.

 

Kernow, though, is producing subjects which are probably rather too specialised for other manufacturers to be interested in, so CT might be safe enough.

 

(Edited to remove messy text.)

Edited June 19, 2018 by No Decorum

[JSpencer]

I hope you’re right about Kernow now starting to speed up pro

 

I hope you’re right about things speeding up.

 

Kernow, though, is producing subjects which are probably rather too specialised for other manufacturers to be interested in, so CT might be safe enough.

 

As the most popular subjects are now soaked up, manufacturers are looking elsewhere. Bachmann considered a Q6 but said they would not do it. DJM then announced one and Hornby worked on one quietly until the last minute when it was ready to be made.

 

The rules have changed...

[woodenhead]

Kernow also have a number of Well Tanks and 02s to clear - whilst neither is a GW type it may be that steam engines are proving harder to shift than DE types hence the work to get the Bulleid and Warships out.

 

When it comes it comes, I don't need one for my layout though I certainly want one.

[jwd]

Perhaps you could lend Kernow your expertise and money in order to progress the railmotor more rapidly?

 

That's not the point, no update, news or movement in how many years??

 

If Kernow don't have the money or expertise to expedite then say so, surely having good communication with your potential customers is vital nowadays especially people on a budget will allocate monies for products per year and without any news Kernow could lose out on potential sales.

[cctransuk]

That's not the point, no update, news or movement in how many years??

 

If Kernow don't have the money or expertise to expedite then say so, surely having good communication with your potential customers is vital nowadays especially people on a budget will allocate monies for products per year and without any news Kernow could lose out on potential sales.

 

Simples!!!

 

Allocate the money to the railmotor, then forget it and get on with some modelling.

 

In the extremely unlikely event that the railmotor doesn't materialise, you'll have a nice little financial windfall to spend on something else.

 

...... or are you just another person who insists that monthly " Nothing significant to report" 'newsletters' should be issued regardless?

 

Surely we all know by now that development time is measured in years or even decades?

 

Patience is a virtue - which seems to be in short supply nowadays!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[The Stationmaster]

That's not the point, no update, news or movement in how many years??

 

If Kernow don't have the money or expertise to expedite then say so, surely having good communication with your potential customers is vital nowadays especially people on a budget will allocate monies for products per year and without any news Kernow could lose out on potential sales.

 

No update from Kernow since the end of November last - which according to counting on my fingers is 7 (seven) months and not 'how many years?' (to which the obvious answer is 'less than one' ).  we have long known, and recognised that it is Kernow's policy to tell us something when they have something to report and not to keep saying that they have nothing new to say.  in the meanwhile they have obviously been dealing with matters in respect of other models such as commissions from the majors plus progressing the livery confirmation on the Bulleid diesel and progressing work on the D6XX to the point where it is now at livery samples and where, once they are approved, production and delivery will follow.

 

I'm not at all sure how much more they can do in what amounts to the working day of one or two people plus running a retail business.. As far as the railmotor is concerned they will no doubt get there when they get there but checking CADs isn't exactly a 5minute job and can be a fairly mind numbing task at the best of times when other stuff needs attention.

 

As far as allocating money is concerned then as far as I'm concerned the longer the better because even at current abysmal interest rates a couple of pence in interest every year is slightly) better than nothing.  And in any case other things are demanding their share of my cash so I'm hardly likely to be upset if it doesn't all come at once.  Going back a few decades I would have dismissed as a lunatic anyone who told me that one day I would see and ride on a GWR steam railmotor, having had that particular hopeless dream eventually satisfied I can't really moan about having to wait for a decent model of one.

[jwd]

No update from Kernow since the end of November last - which according to counting on my fingers is 7 (seven) months and not 'how many years?' (to which the obvious answer is 'less than one' ).  we have long known, and recognised that it is Kernow's policy to tell us something when they have something to report and not to keep saying that they have nothing new to say.  in the meanwhile they have obviously been dealing with matters in respect of other models such as commissions from the majors plus progressing the livery confirmation on the Bulleid diesel and progressing work on the D6XX to the point where it is now at livery samples and where, once they are approved, production and delivery will follow.

 

I'm not at all sure how much more they can do in what amounts to the working day of one or two people plus running a retail business.. As far as the railmotor is concerned they will no doubt get there when they get there but checking CADs isn't exactly a 5minute job and can be a fairly mind numbing task at the best of times when other stuff needs attention.

 

As far as allocating money is concerned then as far as I'm concerned the longer the better because even at current abysmal interest rates a couple of pence in interest every year is slightly) better than nothing.  And in any case other things are demanding their share of my cash so I'm hardly likely to be upset if it doesn't all come at once.  Going back a few decades I would have dismissed as a lunatic anyone who told me that one day I would see and ride on a GWR steam railmotor, having had that particular hopeless dream eventually satisfied I can't really moan about having to wait for a decent model of one.

 

Yes I suppose the 'want it now' impatience got the better of me, like you said, the thought of a decent RTR GWR steam railmotor in the not too distant past would've been laughable.

 

Back to my 'impatient' corner 

[Wickham Green]

 

Allocate the money to the railmotor, then forget it and get on with some modelling.

 

In the extremely unlikely event that the railmotor doesn't materialise, you'll have a nice little financial windfall to spend on something else.

 

I'll have to employ you as my financial consultant ........... so exactly WHERE should I put the railmotor-allocated dosh such that its value actually accrues to a 'nice little windfall' - rather than gaining interest at x% less than inflation like all my current savings ??!? ( I bet it's a secret ! )

[The Stationmaster]

I'll have to employ you as my financial consultant ........... so exactly WHERE should I put the railmotor-allocated dosh such that its value actually accrues to a 'nice little windfall' - rather than gaining interest at x% less than inflation like all my current savings ??!? ( I bet it's a secret ! )

 

Here you go   

 

https://www.racingtips.com/category/ascot-free-bets/?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=cpc_Selections%20for%20Royal%20AScot_Exact_Royal_Ascot&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3K7lld7i2wIVRIjVCh0_Jg8CEAAYASAAEgI9GPD_BwE

[adb968008]

Going back a few decades I would have dismissed as a lunatic anyone who told me that one day I would see and ride on a GWR steam railmotor, having had that particular hopeless dream eventually satisfied I can't really moan about having to wait for a decent model of one.[/i]

Never ! For me, even 20 years ago the thought of riding a steam rail motor along a branchline that closed to passengers over 70 years ago, on a class that was extinct over 80 years ago, complete my my father and daughter was certainly something unanticipated.

Then two weeks later I got to see the same, but on the Down Fast of the GWML at 1am in the morning in steam, even if it had a 47 pulling it !

 

Hopefully some day I get to see another such scene... with that of a AEC railcar last seen on the network 60 years ago... wouldn’t that be nice.

Edited June 20, 2018 by adb968008

[Edwardian]

Have they?

 

How come I can still order one? 

 

 

http://www.hattons.co.uk/88229/DJ_Models_Dave_Jones_HK03DCC_Class_6000_King_4_6_0_6021_King_Richard_II_in_GWR_lined_green_with_shirtbutton_l/StockDetail.aspx

 

 

I know it's OT.

 

 

 

 

Jason

 

Ha, the Hattons King!

 

I still have 8 on pre-order!

 

Never mind, I'll let my executors deal with it.

[HillsideDepot]

Since it was standing outside yesterday, something to look at whilst you're waiting:

 

[Tim Hall]

 

Features quite a bit in my little fillum

[Edwardian]

The steam railmotor has - to my knowledge - never been with DJM to the extent of them actually carrying out any work on it on behalf of Kernow.  I know it was scanned by someone with no connection whatsoever with DJM because I happened to be at Didcot GWS on the day the scanning took place and I am also aware that production of CADs has never had any connection at all with DJM.   Similarly, and as far as I'm aware,  Kernow have never mentioned in any literature or on their website who they are working with on development and production of the steam railmotor - in just the same way that they have never, for example, disclosed who they are working with on development and production of the Bulleid diesel.

 

I suspect I was not alone in forming the distinct impression that this was originally allocated to DJM.  Did not DJM make the infamous coaches, a mention of which would get me banned from the site?  If so, I think this might have been the terminal commission.  I would be surprised to find that neither Kernow's web-site not DJM's had at one stage mentioned DJM's involvement with the Railmotor. If the commission was pulled, no doubt it would suit both sides to conduct a bit of judicious airbrushing of the past, but the point is somewhat academic now. 

 

I have seen nothing to suggest that this model won't happen. I have never been that fussed about how long things like this take.  It spreads the financial pain for one thing! 

[adb968008]

Post 1:

 

Hi everyone,

As this is now out of the bag at Warley, it may as well be announced here formally.

I'm out at the moment but if Chris or Andy don't update this page with the press release before I'm home I'll do it later.

Cheers

Dave

Post 4:

 

Hi mate,

Your welcome, but please remember, it's a Kernow product, so lots of plaudits to them :-)

Post 171:

Yes afaik. Certainly DJ Models/Dave Jones commenced this thread and until recently were the commissioned party for Kernow in relation to their range of models i.e. Tiger bogie hoppers, Gate Stock, D600 Warship, LSWR Road Van and Steam Railmotor. Unless Kernow have altered the arrangements, which hasn't been published. Certainly Kernow have been recently working directly with Chinese manufacturers for the Bulleid diesel and the Turbot bogie engineers wagon, but the earlier commissions were still arranged via DJ Models I understood. Certainly the recent EP of the D600 Warship came via DJ Models

Post 172:

 

Hi,

Then you’d be wrong, sorry.

Cheers

Dave

Edited June 24, 2018 by adb968008

[melmerby]

 

Fake News, Fake News!

[JSpencer]

Since it was standing outside yesterday, something to look at whilst you're waiting:

030.JPG

 

So... Is that lining around the edges of the beading or just the reflection of the light?

 

I ask because there is a huge debate over black and white pics of the Dynamometer car, yet even a colour pic here can give a false impression too.

[Edwardian]

The steam railmotor has - to my knowledge - never been with DJM to the extent of them actually carrying out any work on it on behalf of Kernow.  I know it was scanned by someone with no connection whatsoever with DJM because I happened to be at Didcot GWS on the day the scanning took place and I am also aware that production of CADs has never had any connection at all with DJM.   Similarly, and as far as I'm aware,  Kernow have never mentioned in any literature or on their website who they are working with on development and production of the steam railmotor - in just the same way that they have never, for example, disclosed who they are working with on development and production of the Bulleid diesel.

 

It is probably high time to move on from the issue of DJM's past involvement, as this is now academic.  But I did some digging because I don't like to be made to feel that I may be going senile.  I do not appear to be the only one who remembers this being announced as a DJM collaboration, rather than simply being announced by DJM on RMWeb. 

 

There is now no evidence on the Kernow website that DJM was involved; the original announcement page has been deleted.  That Kernow did originally publicise this as a DJM collaboration is, however, reflected by the web-content still visible, dating from around November-December 2014, recording the announcement of a DJM/Kernow GW railmotor.

 

"... never been with DJM to the extent of them actually carrying out any work on it" is not the same as saying that the commission never was with DJM.  This just goes to the point at which DJM's involvement ceased.  DJM was still publically referred to as the partner as late as May 2016.  What, if anything, DJM did during the time it was named partner on this project is another matter, but to suggest that they were not involved for a significant period, would be disingenuous.

 

But, so what?

 

Hattons has done perfectly well, arguably better, since it took to dealing directly with the Chinese factory.  That is a credit to them. There are clearly pitfalls in doing this if you do not research and understand your subject adequately and can check effectively on what the Chinese team is making of it all, but Hattons evidently negotiated these successfully.

 

As Kernow keep their cards and their CADS close to their chests, we can but hope that they will be similarly successful.  They have access to the preserved vehicle and, I imagine, to some very well-informed folk at Didcot, so it seems to me that there is no reason to suppose that they will not get it right.

 

As for expressions of impatience, it's a long job in the nature of the thing, and I don't mind folk taking the time to get things done properly.  

 

Neither does my bank balance.

 

I am sure that this is progressing and will prove worth the wait when it comes clanking and hissing our way.

[No Decorum]

Since it was standing outside yesterday, something to look at whilst you're waiting:

 

 

 

Features quite a bit in my little fillum

 

Gentlemen,

 

Gorgeous picture and video; thank you for posting. That’s the first shot I’ve seen of it towing a trailer and it seems to cope very well with it. I am trying very hard to be patient but pictures like that don’t help me at all! 

[Steamport Southport]

So... Is that lining around the edges of the beading or just the reflection of the light?

 

I ask because there is a huge debate over black and white pics of the Dynamometer car, yet even a colour pic here can give a false impression too.

 

Definitely lined.

 

 

 

Jason

[Edwardian]

So... Is that lining around the edges of the beading or just the reflection of the light?

 

I ask because there is a huge debate over black and white pics of the Dynamometer car, yet even a colour pic here can give a false impression too.

 

Definitely lined.

 

 

 

Jason

 

Yes, indeed.  We know what GW livery of the period should be, and it should be lined.

 

Reflective sunlight is deceptive, though, because it tends to hit exactly the rounded profile at the corner of the beading where the lining was applied.

 

It is easier to spot in colour pictures, of course, and, in the example above, I think it's very clear.  If in doubt, open the picture so it's bigger and look at the lower edges, e.g. on the beading at the top of the driving end.  There you can still see the line, even in shadow.

 

Black and white is obviously harder, as you are interpreting a change in tone, not seeing a change in colour. My two top tips for black and white pictures are to:

 

- Look at the edges on which the light is not shining directly - one of the two sides to the verticals and the lower edge of the horizontals.  If you can see something there, it's likely to be lining.

 

- Look at the bolections.  These won't be lined at the edges like the beading, but were varnished and equally capable of reflecting light on the leading edges.  So, if the edges of the bolection in sunlight look different from the edges of the beading that are in sunlight - specifically less of a contrast with the main colour - that suggests that highlight seen on the beading is more than just the reflection, but is lining.

 

I daresay that's not fool-proof in every case, but I have found it helpful.

[adb968008]

Brighton toymodel museum certainly seems to think the Gresley coaches were lined, even brake end panels, and this advert was from 1938...

https://www.brightontoymuseum.co.uk/w/images/Two-Coach_Articulated_Unit,_Hornby_Dublo_D2_(1938_Dublo_brochure).jpg

 

Back in the 1930’s conditions as such you do what you can, but to include something that wasn’t there would seem odd, especially if it’s going to cost you time and money to include it.

 

Similarly, the GNR directors saloon has some lining..

https://locoyard.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/107-bluebell-railway-sheffield-park-u-class-1638-pulling-great-northern-railway-706-directors-saloon.jpg

 

 

I don’t know about such things other than most varnished coaches seem to have lining.

Edited June 25, 2018 by adb968008