RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted January 19, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 19, 2015 Not clarified / decided yet, as with the running they do not yet know if it will pre or post 1931 olive green livery (i.e. with or without prefix) Thanks for keeping us up to date Graham, is it any clearer yet whether the SR livery is pre- or post- 1931 please? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Graham_Muz Posted January 19, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 19, 2015 Hi Colin Like the running numbers the issue or pre or post 1931 livery style ie with E prefix or without, has not yet been decided. Again I will advise as soon as I know. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Brasher Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Hornby is not producing any Southern Railway goods or passenger rolling stock for R3327 SR S15 to pull except for R4672 SR 4 Wheel coach. If Hornby made a model of Harry A Frith it could pull Mk1 coaches as a preserved locomotive. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium petethemole Posted January 20, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 20, 2015 Compared to the other Big Four companies the Southern had a relatively small wagon fleet. The concentration of manufacturing industry in the Midlands and North, the presence of large and small ports and the effects of common use of company wagons led to a constant flow of "foreign" wagons onto and off the SR. So a train including no SR wagons was possible. The lack of a suitable brake van is a problem IF you only buy Hornby, don't already have the ex-LBSC van and won't buy second hand. With both the S15 and the 700 forthcoming perhaps Hornby could consider booking production slots for 2016 and re-releasing the SR version of the 5 plank open (fairly accurate body for late 1930s and WW2 production, but non-SR brake gear) and the brake (as a RailRoad item?). Also, perhaps buyers could be persuaded, in their local model shops, to buy brakes and SR type vans from the Blue Team. This shows the advantage of the model shop over the internet, where some Hornby buyers may not be very aware of what the competition has to offer. I've just checked the Hornby website and Maunsell coaches are still available in their interpretation of malachite, so suitable for 1938 onwards Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Brasher Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Unfortunately there are also hardly any pre-nationalisation open wagons or vans from the LMS, LNER or GWR either in the 2015 Hornby catalogue. There is an R6682A,B and C LNER extra long CCT, an R6678 & A LMS Horse Box, an R6625 GWR Mogo Van, loads of private owner wagons, and a R6624B &C Shunters Truck. There is also a shortage of pre-nationalisation wagons in the Bachmann range and the Oxfordrail range is limited to private owner wagons. Looking at photographs I do not think that private owner wagons did not dominate the Railways as much as model railway manufacturers would like us to believe and certainly not as much as on the illustration on pages 88 and 89 of the Hornby catalogue. I agree that a Southern Railway locomotive is as likely to have hauled goods stock from other regions as from the Southern and this is where looking at photographs pays dividends. Examples are an LNER van on the Swanage Railway and an LMS van on the Portland Railway. I accept that you can still buy Hornby Southern coaches but I wonder for how much longer and at what price when people find out that they are no longer any in the Hornby catalogue and Bachmann don't make any. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium petethemole Posted January 20, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 20, 2015 24 quid in my local shop. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 ... Looking at photographs I do not think that private owner wagons did not dominate the Railways as much as model railway manufacturers would like us to believe... Varies with where you are actually looking. At the end of the 1930s, before almost the entire PO wagon fleet was nationalised for the war effort, (effectively permanently) there were about 550,000 in service. That's about the same as the combined wagon fleets of the LMS and LNER. Inspection of photographs taken in these territories show a roughly 50:50 ratio between company owned and privately owned. I would expect a rather different ratio on the Southern especially: no coal export to speak of, main demand for coal outside London likely to be domestic heating, power and gas plants, locomotive and ship's fuel supplies. Most ironically, the one halfway decent RTR model of a wooden bodied general merchandise open - a very desireable product - is of a Southern Railway prototype, the rarest of the lot of those produced in the grouping years. Fortunately it closely resembles vehicles which all of the LMS,LNER and GWR also produced batches of in the late 30s. But of the earlier LMS and LNER general merchandise opens which were 'everywhere' in the grouping period, it's kits you have to build. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted January 20, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 20, 2015 All these comments about models no longer being in the Hornby catalogue... Hornby, and Bachmann for that matter, have traditionally rested models for a few years to allow existing stocks to be cleared and to stoke up interest in further production runs. Just because something doesn't appear in the current/recent catalogue(s) doesn't mean it wont reappear in a year or two, either as a retool or more of the same. Having said that, there are plenty of Hornby's "old" wagon tools/moulds I would love to be consigned to the bin for ever. A pity they weren't the ones "lost" in the transfer from Sanda Kan to the new factories. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted January 20, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) All these comments about models no longer being in the Hornby catalogue... Hornby, and Bachmann for that matter, have traditionally rested models for a few years to allow existing stocks to be cleared and to stoke up interest in further production runs. Just because something doesn't appear in the current/recent catalogue(s) doesn't mean it wont reappear in a year or two, either as a retool or more of the same. Having said that, there are plenty of Hornby's "old" wagon tools/moulds I would love to be consigned to the bin for ever. A pity they weren't the ones "lost" in the transfer from Sanda Kan to the new factories. Also, many of us who will be buying multiple S15s (and 700s for that matter) have been in the game for many years and have plenty of stock to exercise our new motive power even if nothing is being released to coincide with the new locos. Indeed, from a financial viewpoint, I'm quite thankful there isn't ! John Edited January 20, 2015 by Dunsignalling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Having just bought Irwell's excellent book 'H15 and S15 4-6-0s' by Peter Swift I can predict all kinds of merriment picking exact specifications for any of these engines, tenders, boilers, livery and many other changes galore! All power to you Muz and Hornby in putting together the right mix. I am concocting by photo-trickery an H15 ... using a Black 5 for driving wheels and valve gear. I imagine something similar might be possible in actual modelling? The Urie cab and boiler off NI15 736 'Excalibur' are useful for 491 but the dates of boiler-swaps and mods and are a minefield! And it had a unique Urie 5,200 gal tender. Especially the livery changes are complex! How dark was 'Southern dark green'? Was the lining generally visible? Lot's of fun. I am sure Hornby will get it right, and there are plenty who will point out errors... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) here is an edited pic of an H15 based on N15 Arthur 736 'Excalibur' and Black 5 LMS 5000. H15 SR no. e491 between 1927 and 1931 in 'Southern dark green', with Maunsell boiler and smokebox, 5,200 gallon Urie tender, but it got a Urie boiler in 1934... I'm not sure about the safety valve arrangement over the firebox. Engine had a long history built before WW1 (just, 7/1914) withdrawn 1961 with 1,539,740 recorded miles. A taste perhaps of S15s to come soon from Hornby. 491 even got olive green paint in 1939. Edited January 21, 2015 by robmcg 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Graham_Muz Posted January 21, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 21, 2015 I have now posted on my blog here http://grahammuz.com/2015/01/20/updated-information-and-running-numbers-for-the-Hornby-s15-releases-for-2015/ full details of the proposed running details of the first three Hornby S15 releases and the time periods they cover, however in summary: R3327 SR Maunsell lined olive green - number 824 with Smoke delectors - Urie Bogie TenderR3328 BR early emblem livery - number 30843 - Maunsell flat sided bogie tender - 72A shedplate (Exmouth Junction)R3329 BR late emblem livery - number 30830 - with AWS fitted - Urie Bogie tender c/w auxiliary vacuum reservoirs - 72B Shedplate (Salisbury) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45568 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) Most ironically, the one halfway decent RTR model of a wooden bodied general merchandise open - a very desireable product - is of a Southern Railway prototype, the rarest of the lot of those produced in the grouping years. Fortunately it closely resembles vehicles which all of the LMS,LNER and GWR also produced batches of in the late 30s. But of the earlier LMS and LNER general merchandise opens which were 'everywhere' in the grouping period, it's kits you have to build. Pardon my ignorance, but which model, and what part number, is this particular beast? Thanks, Peter C. Edited January 21, 2015 by 45568 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted January 21, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 21, 2015 I have now posted on my blog here http://grahammuz.com/2015/01/20/updated-information-and-running-numbers-for-the-Hornby-s15-releases-for-2015/ full details of the proposed running details of the first three Hornby S15 releases and the time periods they cover, however in summary: R3327 SR Maunsell lined olive green - number 824 with Smoke delectors - Urie Bogie Tender R3328 BR early emblem livery - number 30843 - Maunsell flat sided bogie tender - 72A shedplate (Exmouth Junction) R3329 BR late emblem livery - number 30830 - with AWS fitted - Urie Bogie tender c/w auxiliary vacuum reservoirs - 72B Shedplate (Salisbury) Thanks Graham, although it means I'll have to wait. But at least I don't have to pre-order to guarantee getting what I want as it's not there (late crest, AWS fitted, Maunsell tender). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Pardon my ignorance, but which model, and what part number, is this particular beast*? * Wooden bodied general merchandise open Hornby simply refer to it as 'five plank wagon', but be cautious here as they have another different product also sold as 'five plank wagon'. I have no idea of all the part numbers it may have been sold under, but have definitely purchased it as R6340 in brown carrying large letter SR livery, and as R6395 / R6395A carrying BR (ex SR) markings on bauxite. They have also plastered all sorts of PO liveries on it, of dubious veracity since these are typically for mineral concerns. The distinguishing features of the general merchandise wagon are the angled plank at the foot of the door ( a mineral wagon has all the planks in the same plane) and the 17'6" overall length over headstocks - 70mm in 4mm scale. The angled plank on the general merchandise vehicle door provides a smoother transition between the door dropped as a ramp onto a platform and the wagon floor, easing the passage of sack barrows and other handling equipment. (There should be a chamfer to the inside top edge of the door to the same purpose of providing a smaller step up onto the door from the platform, but this is not represented.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I have now posted on my blog here http://grahammuz.com/2015/01/20/updated-information-and-running-numbers-for-the-Hornby-s15-releases-for-2015/ full details of the proposed running details of the first three Hornby S15 releases and the time periods they cover, however in summary: R3327 SR Maunsell lined olive green - number 824 with Smoke delectors - Urie Bogie Tender R3328 BR early emblem livery - number 30843 - Maunsell flat sided bogie tender - 72A shedplate (Exmouth Junction) R3329 BR late emblem livery - number 30830 - with AWS fitted - Urie Bogie tender c/w auxiliary vacuum reservoirs - 72B Shedplate (Salisbury) For anyone interested I have done a few photos of Urie S15 4-6-0s 497 and 499, stovepipe chimneys, various boilers and smokeboxes, some guesswork, here; https://www.facebook.com/brsteamphotos/photos/pcb.414957422003262/414956662003338/?type=1&theater Will eventually make images of 824, after messing around to much with various H15 and S15 variants, courtesy Irwell's excellent book. Cheers, Rob 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) Here is my rendition of SR e831 from the same batch, or second batch of 1927? as Hornby's proposed 824 in SR guise... https://www.facebook.com/brsteamphotos/photos/a.378493222316349.1073741838.203786143120392/415651711933833/?type=1&theatre and here in a shed scene, years before Black 5s ...! https://www.facebook.com/brsteamphotos/photos/a.378493222316349.1073741838.203786143120392/415676101931394/?type=1&theater Edited January 24, 2015 by robmcg 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 This is causing me some dilemmas! The maunsell S15 I most want is the preserved Bluebell loco 847 or 30847 which has a Maunsell tender. Yet this preserved member is not mentioned. Hornby may or may not eventually do that loco. By default I have ordered the Maunsell tender S15, mainly because it would make a change from the Urie tender N15s and partly because Hornby may eventually do the Urie version of the loco someday. Now if Hornby end up doing 847, then I would end up with 2 Maunsell tendered S15s. If they do not, I will miss a chance to renumber 30843 to 30847. On the other hand 30830 went to Barry's for a while, was saved and stored on the bluebell for a while before going up North to join two other preserved members of the class. I could order both, with a 3rd later if 847 comes out. But I do not want a fleet of these engines.... Do I stay with 30843 or do I switch to 30830? Not an easy question. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigherb Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 This is causing me some dilemmas! The maunsell S15 I most want is the preserved Bluebell loco 847 or 30847 which has a Maunsell tender. Yet this preserved member is not mentioned. Hornby may or may not eventually do that loco. Possibly it has been reserved as a special for the Bluebell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multiple identity account Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 From the Hornby page... Looks astounding!!! 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted February 20, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 20, 2015 From the Hornby page... Looks astounding!!! Well on the way. Just needs smoke deflectors and some transfers and it'll be done! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted February 20, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 20, 2015 weathering, crew, lamps, P4 conversion......... Hat, coat....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted February 20, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 20, 2015 weathering, crew, lamps, P4 conversion......... Hat, coat....... I meant "done" up to the point where I get my grubby mitts on it........... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black 5 Bear Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 From the Hornby page... Looks astounding!!! Just when I thought it was safe to get my wallet out again,lol !!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Looks fab (aside from backwards leaning cab... interfaces needs checking me thinks). A return to Hornby at its best? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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