RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted December 17, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 17, 2015 Now with Hornby, e-mail arrived today to tell me it's about to be dispatched so looking good to arrive before Christmas, woo hoo! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted December 17, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 17, 2015 Well I'm hoping this is still available at the end of January. Soonest I'm going to be able to afford any sort of model purchases unfortunately. The Silver Jubilee collection will probably cost me a bomb on eBay by then but nothing I can do about it. Stupid bills! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikesndbs Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 The Hornby R3300 Churchill commemorative funeral train pack I take a look at this lovely but expensive pack with a promise to you for more of it in 2016. Unboxing and review. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted December 20, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 20, 2015 I'm very much NOT in favour of this pack, I remember my late father standing the whole night to get a view of the cortège. Our shop was closed during the procession, as many others were too; especially small businesses run by veterans. We had a packed sitting room, neighbours watching the procession on our to because they did not have one themselves (about the last time I remember such a thing). Extraordinary, to think that only four years later, a man would walk on the moon I can't see a commercial venture by a distributor of Chinese-made model railways as appropriate, sorry. Same goes for the "Harry Patch" loco, both the original and its models and representations. It is a forum rule that politics....and your post is such......have no place on this forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikesndbs Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 I'm very much NOT in favour of this pack, I remember my late father standing the whole night to get a view of the cortège. Our shop was closed during the procession, as many others were too; especially small businesses run by veterans. We had a packed sitting room, neighbours watching the procession on our to because they did not have one themselves (about the last time I remember such a thing). Extraordinary, to think that only four years later, a man would walk on the moon I can't see a commercial venture by a distributor of Chinese-made model railways as appropriate, sorry. Same goes for the "Harry Patch" loco, both the original and its models and representations. Reading your post I was most interested in the first hand experience of the day and your recall of it. But I really don't understand the next bit, why does it matter where something is made? it's a British loco depicting a very British event by a British model firm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted December 20, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 20, 2015 I like the box design, nice that Hornby have made an effort with the packaging. This model is one that for me is not a rational purchase. If looked at dispassionately it is an air smoothed BoB, two nice Pullman coaches and an antiquated old Triang luggage van. The BoB is a very nice model but there are plenty available in the main range (or have been available and there has just been another batch released). Ditto, there has been no shortage of great Pullman coaches released by Hornby. And for the luggage van, OK I expect this one will be very nicely finished but it is still a relic. However, for all that this is a release that I was determined to buy as soon as it was announced and I'd kick myself if I let it pass. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted December 20, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 20, 2015 I quite like the thought of acquiring Winston Churchill to celebrate the great man ,but I'm not interested in Pullmans or the luggage van. So is too much money. Gong to have to stick with my original Wilton. Part of me gets what Rockershovel is saying . I get that it is not entirely appropriate to celebrate a somber event , which he clearly remembers, and that it's an affront that it's made in China. Not really the best way to celebrate one of the greatest Brits ever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikesndbs Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 I quite like the thought of acquiring Winston Churchill to celebrate the great man ,but I'm not interested in Pullmans or the luggage van. So is too much money. Gong to have to stick with my original Wilton. Part of me gets what Rockershovel is saying . I get that it is not entirely appropriate to celebrate a somber event , which he clearly remembers, and that it's an affront that it's made in China. Not really the best way to celebrate one of the greatest Brits ever. As a very long term admirer of Sir Winston, no offence was meant by myself and I honestly do not think Hornby means any! 21C151 was officially named Winston Churchill in a ceremony at Waterloo railway station on 11 September 1947. The former prime minister, by then Leader of the Opposition, was offered the chance to name the locomotive, but turned it down, claiming a prior engagement. The locomotive was named by Lord Dowding, who also named his own eponymous locomotive at the same ceremony. Churchill became the only person to decline the opportunity to name a Battle of Britain class locomotive after himself. The loco was of course a natural choice to haul the funeral train and the pack is commemorating not celebrating the the sad occasion. At the end of the day this is a chance to own a little bit of British history. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted December 20, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 20, 2015 I quite like the thought of acquiring Winston Churchill to celebrate the great man ,but I'm not interested in Pullmans or the luggage van. So is too much money. Gong to have to stick with my original Wilton. Part of me gets what Rockershovel is saying . I get that it is not entirely appropriate to celebrate a somber event , which he clearly remembers, and that it's an affront that it's made in China. Not really the best way to celebrate one of the greatest Brits ever. If you use that argument you would not buy most named model locomotives on release Some examples recently released by Hornby: Lord Kitchener and Earl Haig And by Bachmann ....Nelson and Hong Kong. So where then do we celebrate our patriotic heritage of railways if we put an embargo on Chinese manufacturing of such illustrious names ? BTW....I thought political discussion was inappropriate on this forum and against its rules ? Come on chaps...this is absurd.This is the 21st century and we don't want a reenactment of the Boxer Rebellion,do we? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted December 21, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 21, 2015 Since the matter has been disputed, I'll just say that I don't believe that commercial ventures are appropriate in a matter of this nature. WSC had no connection with Hornby, nor does his surviving family; he did not sanction any such thing when alive (indeed he would not participate in naming the original loco) nor have his surviving family, there are no financial benefits to anything he was connected with or endorsed. There is a statue of the late Sir Winston outside Westminster, after all. You might also say, si monumentum requiris, circumspice; but whether the great man would recognise or approve of what we see, I don't care to venture an opinion. Same goes for the Harry Patch loco, real and model. We need only look in the press to find accounts of ex-servicemen being treated very shabbily in their declining years. We have a well-established form of rememberance, charities for the purpose, statues and memorials in every town and village. If I want to spend some money to remember, I'll buy a poppy (which are made by ex-servicemen, remember), or buy some lottery tickets from The Poppy Lottery. That or I can just pause a moment by the war memorial, which after all I walk past every time I'm in town, as most if us do. I don't wish this to be read as "political", I just feel that it is disrespectful at best. I don't regard it as a specific affront that it's made in China, but I feel that is inappropriate. Ben So it's not appropriate for a British Company, to commemorate a momentous British occasion? When Cunard alone recently commemorated the sinking of the Lusitania with a special voyage onboard Queen Victoria during 2015 that was not appropriate? Or when they commemorate the sinking of the Titanic that is not appropriate either? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikesndbs Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Since the matter has been disputed, I'll just say that I don't believe that commercial ventures are appropriate in a matter of this nature. WSC had no connection with Hornby, nor does his surviving family; he did not sanction any such thing when alive (indeed he would not participate in naming the original loco) nor have his surviving family, there are no financial benefits to anything he was connected with or endorsed. There is a statue of the late Sir Winston outside Westminster, after all. You might also say, si monumentum requiris, circumspice; but whether the great man would recognise or approve of what we see, I don't care to venture an opinion. Same goes for the Harry Patch loco, real and model. We need only look in the press to find accounts of ex-servicemen being treated very shabbily in their declining years. We have a well-established form of rememberance, charities for the purpose, statues and memorials in every town and village. If I want to spend some money to remember, I'll buy a poppy (which are made by ex-servicemen, remember), or buy some lottery tickets from The Poppy Lottery. That or I can just pause a moment by the war memorial, which after all I walk past every time I'm in town, as most if us do. I don't wish this to be read as "political", I just feel that it is disrespectful at best. I don't regard it as a specific affront that it's made in China, but I feel that is inappropriate. Ben Dear Ben You know, once again there is a lot I full agree with but the way it's said comes over in places as down right offensive. For example, I support our servicemen and women to a high degree during the year and I'd guess others do here as well. Your argument suggests that 'all' model makers should stop immediately producing any historic locomotives! so no more Rocket as Stephenson won't be making any profit out of it and did not endorse it? I am afraid Sir Winston is British public property, we elected him, we admire him and therefore despite the money grabbing estate he is our Sir Winston. Now weather he'd agree to that or not is neither here or there, in fact I can hear the man saying he does not give a flying *** about a model train, after all he did not care for the real locomotive overly. He exercised his personal choice while alive. When I was looking to make my video I wanted to include some words by the great man, I discovered that the estate of the late great man would want to charge me £175 per few words read by myself and a astronomic amount to use an actual recording. Yet if i was in America I could do it for free as its considered 'public property' So you can be very sure indeed that Hornby had to pay out a handsome sum to the estate to include photos and use the name as they have so no need to worry about that I am sure, in fact it might explain why the pack is so expensive! Like I say, there is a lot of good thoughts in your words but some of it is just wide of the mark, we can't stop appreciating our history just because the person is dead, nor can we stipulate that we will only appreciate it provided it is entirely brought to us by British means! if you say that then I suggest you throw away your computer, TV, Radio, Magazines etc as all these will be brought to you using foreign electronic components. All the best Ben. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black 5 Bear Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Moving on Gents, considering the cost of this item and the potential for it to become collectable.Why on earth didn't Hornby include the later version luggage van, rather than the poorly detailed triang version ???? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Graham_Muz Posted December 21, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 21, 2015 Moving on Gents, considering the cost of this item and the potential for it to become collectable.Why on earth didn't Hornby include the later version luggage van, rather than the poorly detailed triang version ???? They are two different designs of vans the ex Triang version (and yes it is a shame this has not yet been updated) being the 'Gangwayed Bogie Luggage' (GBL) van as actually used on the funeral train (albeit with additional windows in the middle pair of doors) whilst the later model you refer to is the 'Van B' which would be totally incorrect for the train being represented. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted December 21, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 21, 2015 [quote name="rockershovel" post="2135151" timestamp="1450687489 The comparison with Cunard and the Titanic commemoration is surely a false analogy. Cunard are, after all, the successor to its original owners, are in the same business. The connection is direct, obvious, and intrinsically commercial. The sinking itself was very much "in the public domain" and has been the subject of several highly successful films and other commercial ventures, long after the legal liabilities were held to have been met or discharged. That is exactly my point. Churchills funeral train was also very much "in the public domain". A British company is commemorating a British prime minister. Cunard commemorates a Cunard Liner. It is exactly the same thing. I don't see how this is being seen as a political issue by some. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted December 21, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 21, 2015 This is an inappropriate place to be having this discussion.For Heaven's sake,if any of you have wider,ethical issues then please discuss it elsewhere maybe in PM format. This thread is about a new Hornby Train Pack.This is what both Grahamuzz and Black 5 Bear are discussing. Might be sensible to read Forum Rules ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black 5 Bear Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 They are two different designs of vans the ex Triang version (and yes it is a shame this has not yet been updated) being the 'Gangwayed Bogie Luggage' (GBL) van as actually used on the funeral train (albeit with additional windows in the middle pair of doors) whilst the later model you refer to is the 'Van B' which would be totally incorrect for the train being represented. Morning Graham, Thank you for pointing that out, Always good to have an expert on board to point out errors in our thoughts..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tim Hall Posted December 21, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 21, 2015 Lord and Butler have just received some. I was there earlier today when they unpacked them. Nice presentation. Won't be getting one, though. Too many Pullman vehicles already Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adams442T Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 At the end of the day (last cliche I promise!) what really matters (b*ggrit, another one slipped in!) is whether you wish to pay, what I consider an exorbitant sum, for a set which poorly represents the original. This isn't the first poorly assembled, ill-representative, inaccurate set that Hornby (and for that matter Bachmann) have offered on the back of an anniversary, and sadly I don't suppose it will be that last. For those that, for whatever reason, wish to buy it, well it's their money to spend how they wish. Personally I wouldn't touch it with a barge-pole! (oh dear, there goes another one......) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forester Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 At the end of the day (last cliche I promise!) what really matters (b*ggrit, another one slipped in!) is whether you wish to pay, what I consider an exorbitant sum, for a set which poorly represents the original. This isn't the first poorly assembled, ill-representative, inaccurate set that Hornby (and for that matter Bachmann) have offered on the back of an anniversary, and sadly I don't suppose it will be that last. For those that, for whatever reason, wish to buy it, well it's their money to spend how they wish. Personally I wouldn't touch it with a barge-pole! (oh dear, there goes another one......) Worth pointing out that the Winston Churchill set is a long-delayed commemorative set which missed its target date by a mile through a number of difficult circumstances. Hornby has moved on a long way since this set was first conceived. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted December 21, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 21, 2015 Mine was waiting for me tonight and I am really pleased with it. The packing is very nicely done and the contents are good. As expected the luggage van is very basic and there is no hiding the fact it is an antique but it is nicely finished. The air smoothed BoB is still an excellent model despite no longer being in the first flush of youth and the two Pullmans are nicely done. Is it a perfect model? No, but I was aware of the short comings when I pre-ordered. Is it a nice set of one of the few trains of genuine historical significance? In my opinion yes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawyermodels Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Shows how popular the set is, ours arrived this morning, now only have one left. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Anyone know a retailer that is splitting the set? I have all my Pullmans but missed out on 34051 when first released. Would quite like the loco... please PM if any info. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonnyRailMan Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 This train pack looks good and having seen it on Mikes video looks even better ,but yes I think it is over priced . Surely you can put this pack together yourself for less than what Hornby are asking. Having said that the baggage coach that carried the coffin might be tricky to pick up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted December 23, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 23, 2015 This train pack looks good and having seen it on Mikes video looks even better ,but yes I think it is over priced . Surely you can put this pack together yourself for less than what Hornby are asking. Having said that the baggage coach that carried the coffin might be tricky to pick up. The same unfortunately can be said of other Hornby train packs.Look at the reduced prices available on The Tyseley Connection and The Return From Dunkirk.The trend seems to be to initially market at inflated prices to see what you can achieve with a quick hit and if inevitably they don't sell,then reduce to the trade and all and sundry.The trade relies heavily on sales of new releases .Stock sitting on warehouse shelves does not bring home the bacon.The Churchill factor might be different.I wonder how many will be left after Christmas.Then there is the distinct probability that some retailers/e bay sellers will be "doing the splits" so that those who lust after 34051 will be able to achieve their desires..This was,remember,a Hornby release in 2004. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 This train pack looks good and having seen it on Mikes video looks even better ,but yes I think it is over priced . Surely you can put this pack together yourself for less than what Hornby are asking. Having said that the baggage coach that carried the coffin might be tricky to pick up. This was a "Solo" Boxed release a few years ago.... I got mine discounted from Modelzone....before the Closing Down Sale....obviously they didn't sell so well...and so Hornby discounted them? So...there are some out there...... (Que X-Files Music! ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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