LNER Models in 4mm

[Pebbles]

John Edgson? a much revered gentlemen of memory. You surely meant John Redrup. 

[micklner]

31 minutes ago, Pebbles said:

John Edgson? a much revered gentlemen of memory. You surely meant John Redrup. 

Corrected thanks

Edited November 7, 2023 by micklner

[Daddyman]

2 hours ago, micklner said:

I have spoken to John at LRM at length re the kit and he is considering a further etch with the missing parts. It also needs new better castings. I have used some Dave Bradwell parts on mine, which are of a far superior quality.

 

Someone needs to offer a whole new kit, I doubt if there is the demand however.

Would be nice if a new cabside went on that further etch, to correct the window shape error and the beading thickness. 

[micklner]

58 minutes ago, Daddyman said:

Would be nice if a new cabside went on that further etch, to correct the window shape error and the beading thickness. 

It seems the Cab Windows on nearly every NER Loco r.t.r and kits,has the same criticism.

 

What is wrong with these ones ( not that I am changing them now 🍌 🫠)?

[Daddyman]

3 hours ago, micklner said:

It seems the Cab Windows on nearly every NER Loco r.t.r and kits,has the same criticism.

Yes, but that's not my fault! 😉

 

Wrong shape, like all the Norton kits, and beading too thick. 

 

But yours looks very good, Mick. 

[micklner]

David ,

        i didnt mean you !! it is a common criticism on modelling threads. The B16 is a ex Steve Barnfield kit as supplied , not a Norton.

 

cheers

 

Mick

[Daddyman]

41 minutes ago, micklner said:

David ,

        i didnt mean you !! it is a common criticism on modelling threads. The B16 is a ex Steve Barnfield kit as supplied , not a Norton.

 

cheers

 

Mick

Often me making it though Mick, to be fair! I think a lot of the character of a loco comes from the smokebox door and the cabside windows. 

[Pebbles]

2 hours ago, Daddyman said:

Often me making it though Mick, to be fair! I think a lot of the character of a loco comes from the smokebox door and the cabside windows. 

I have become confused. Is this a discussion relating to the standard of modelling or a critique of the kit? I believe that we have previously been down this Rabbit Hole. 

[18131r]

On 18/09/2022 at 13:01, micklner said:

This maybe delayed . I have just looked at a just arrived  new sheet of HMRS LNER Lining . Simply dire totally out of register . Any suggestion re other sources for Lining decals (not Modelmaster). HMRS have been emailed to see if all there current sheets are as poor or a refund beckons.

 

The decals should have clean white outside lines not a Black overlap as on these photos.

 

 

 

Hello Mick

 

I am looking for red lining to finish off in LNER lined black my D20 loco built from one of Arthur K kits.

 

May I ask if you have used the HMRS sheet since the problems you had with these, if so are the recent incarnations any better.

 

Thank you

 

Richard

[micklner]

Richard

              I have been lucky to source two sheets of older HMRS/PC Models LNER lining sheets since the debacle with the current HMRS "effort". I havent bought anymore from HMRS since.

 

Try ebay.

 

Mick

[micklner]

B16 Tender ready for paint.

 

 

 

[65179]

Hi Mick,

 

The tender looks good, but there are a couple of things it might be worth checking:

1) is that the only set of coalguards with the etch? The original Barnfield ones are overlong. I assumed the LRM revised version would include a correct length set.

 

2) You might want to look again at those toolboxes. They appear to be the type fitted to earlier NE tenders rather than those fitted to the self trimming tenders.

 

 

Regards,

 

Simon

[micklner]

4 minutes ago, 65179 said:

Hi Mick,

 

The tender looks good, but there are a couple of things it might be worth checking:

1) is that the only set of coalguards with the etch? The original Barnfield ones are overlong. I assumed the LRM revised version would include a correct length set.

 

2) You might want to look again at those toolboxes. They appear to be the type fitted to earlier NE tenders rather than those fitted to the self trimming tenders.

 

 

Regards,

 

Simon

Thanks for the info.

 

The Tool boxes are from Dave Bradwell at a guess they are  J27 versions. The LRM versions in the kit are just lumps of a similar shape. Any ideas where some could be obtained please ?

The Coalguards are what came with the kit, which if you read my previous comments re its quality, it may make things more understandable . They appear to match the photos I have . Again where can you source any any alternatives?

cheers

Mick

[65179]

43 minutes ago, micklner said:

Thanks for the info.

 

The Tool boxes are from Dave Bradwell at a guess they are  J27 versions. The LRM versions in the kit are just lumps of a similar shape. Any ideas where some could be obtained please ?

The Coalguards are what came with the kit, which if you read my previous comments re its quality, it may make things more understandable . They appear to match the photos I have . Again where can you source any any alternatives?

cheers

Mick

 

4125 gallon tender here, 54A photography Flickr image:

 

I understand Dave Bradwell does one of the bigger NER tenders for the Q6 so should have the right sort of toolboxes available, in addition to those you've used.

 

I can't help with correct length coalguards, I'm afraid.  Are the DJH ones the correct length? Perhaps not worth the bother.

 

Simon

[Daddyman]

The "wrist-breaker" tool boxes disappeared in the early 1930s (clue as to why in the name). As Simon says, Dave Bradwell offers the later tool boxes in various kits. 

[micklner]

Dave Bradwell only offers the Tender castings at £12 plus postage for a complete set and he will not split them. I have chucked enough money at this god awful kit already . I would probably wreck the Tender taking the others off as well , they can stay. Unless I can find something else in my spares.

DJH are far worse IMHO!!.

 

I have just looked at Hornby's Q6 they are wrong shape as well !!

 

Thanks

Edited November 22, 2023 by micklner

[65179]

37 minutes ago, micklner said:

Dave Bradwell only offers the Tender castings at £12 plus postage for a complete set and he will not split them. I have chucked enough money at this god awful kit already . I would probably wreck the Tender taking the others off as well , they can stay. Unless I can find something else in my spares.

DJH are far worse IMHO!!.

 

I have just looked at Hornby's Q6 they are wrong shape as well !!

 

Thanks

 

Mine are filed up from nickel silver bar with a piece of nickel silver sheet soldered to the front , but then that's fairly easy in 2mm, and they are only a crude representation.

 

Are you adding the slot in the coalplate to match your rather nice fireiron stand?

 

Simon

[mikemeg]

Mick,

 

Re the 4125 gallon tender, as fitted to the North Eastern Class S3's / LNER B16's. Arthur does have the correct toolboxes in his range of white metal castings. These were done in conjunction with the development of the Q7, which were coupled to the 4125 gallon tender.

 

Re the tender axle boxes and springs, as I stated in the postings for my test builds, I used David Bradwell castings for these. These castings allow for the different lengths of the spring hangars on the axle box springs as these hangars are a separate component.

 

As for the coal side plates, during the test build someone (I seem to remember it was 'Pebbles') raised the issue of these being 3mm too long. On checking against a General Arrangement drawing, this was found to be correct; they are 3 mm too long. I therefore reduced the length of these plates by that amount - 3mm - by carefully slitting the plates with a piercing saw - 20 mm from their fronts -  then removing 3 mm wide piece, again with the piercing saw.  A  2 mm x 20 mm strip of .010" brass was then soldered on the inside of the plate at its lower edge to re-join the two parts of the plate, after which the join was filled with solder and then the joint very carefully cleaned up. Each plate took, perhaps, an hour to correct.

 

The joining strip, on the inside of the coal guard plate, will be totally hidden by the coal load.

 

The original 'brief' on these test builds was to check out the original kit as supplied and to then check out the etchings for the new boiler wrapper - representing the later LNER boiler- and the new footplate and splasher etchings representing the last twenty locos built, which were built by the LNER.

 

The brief was very definitely not to identify all of the divergences or dimensional errors from the prototype as none of the original artwork was or is available, So any modifications to the kit could only be made by the provision of replacement parts, which could, conceivably, have involved a large proportion of the etched components i.e. virtually a new kit!

 

I built a LRM N8 (a George Norton kit some thirty years old) but replaced the entire chassis using one of Arthur's J21 chassis etch sets - the N8 and J21 had exactly similar wheel spacing. Various other parts were also replaced or modified i.e. the LRM radial axle, Arthurs chimney, dome, ross pop valves, etc. The result is a very much updated (perhaps even unique) version of this kit build.

 

Since these George Norton or Steve Barnfield kits were drawn and developed, there have been enormous strides made in the quality and accuracy of the etched kits and the availability of cast components. It is simply not possible to reflect these thirty plus years of improvements in those kits!!

 

It is up to the builder to identify and then supplement those older kits to whatever level they consider necessary!!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2023 by mikemeg

[micklner]

20 minutes ago, mikemeg said:

Mick,

 

Re the 4125 gallon tender, as fitted to the North Eastern Class S3's / LNER B16's. Arthur does have the correct toolboxes in his range of white metal castings. These were done in conjunction with the development of the Q7, which were coupled to the 4125 gallon tender.

 

Re the tender axle boxes and springs, as I stated in the postings for my test builds, I used David Bradwell castings for these. These castings allow for the different lengths of the spring hangars on the axle box springs as these hangars are a separate component.

 

As for the coal side plates, during the test build someone (I seem to remember it was 'Pebbles') raised the issue of these being 3mm too long. On checking against a General Arrangement drawing, this was found to be correct. I therefore reduced the length of these plates by that amount - 3mm - by carefully slitting the plates with a piercing saw - 20 mm from their fronts -  then removing 3 mm wide piece, again with the piercing saw.  A  2 mm x 20 mm strip of .010" brass was then soldered on the inside of the plate at its lower edge to re-join the two parts of the plate, after which the join was filled with solder and then the joint very carefully cleaned up.

 

The joining strip, on the inside of the coal guard plate, will be totally hidden by the coal load.

 

The original 'brief' on these test builds was to check out the original kit as supplied and to then check out the etchings for the new boiler wrapper - representing the later LNER boiler- and the new footplate and splasher etchings representing the last twenty locos built, which were built by the LNER.

 

The brief was very definitely not to identify all of the divergences or dimensional errors from the prototype as none of the original artwork was or is available, So any modifications to the kit could only be made by the provision of replacement parts, which could, conceivably, have involved a large proportion of the etched components i.e. virtually a new kit!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

Thanks Mike.

 

A new kit is exactly what is needed. !!

 

As said earlier I have made LRM aware of the kits multiple failings as regards to the Loco , the Tender can now also be added to the list. LRM even list "it" as seperate item for £50 !!!

 

Another message will be sent to LRM re the Tender as well.

 

Mick

[micklner]

33 minutes ago, 65179 said:

 

Mine are filed up from nickel silver bar with a piece of nickel silver sheet soldered to the front , but then that's fairly easy in 2mm, and they are only a crude representation.

 

Are you adding the slot in the coalplate to match your rather nice fireiron stand?

 

Simon

On the photos I have the Fire Iron stand was higher than the Coal Plate on all of them , no slot obvious.

[18131r]

16 hours ago, micklner said:

Richard

              I have been lucky to source two sheets of older HMRS/PC Models LNER lining sheets since the debacle with the current HMRS "effort". I havent bought anymore from HMRS since.

 

Try ebay.

 

Mick

Hello Mick

 

Thank you for the information, I will try ebay fingers crossed.

 

Richard

[18131r]

1 hour ago, mikemeg said:

Mick,

 

Re the 4125 gallon tender, as fitted to the North Eastern Class S3's / LNER B16's. Arthur does have the correct toolboxes in his range of white metal castings. These were done in conjunction with the development of the Q7, which were coupled to the 4125 gallon tender.

 

Re the tender axle boxes and springs, as I stated in the postings for my test builds, I used David Bradwell castings for these. These castings allow for the different lengths of the spring hangars on the axle box springs as these hangars are a separate component.

 

As for the coal side plates, during the test build someone (I seem to remember it was 'Pebbles') raised the issue of these being 3mm too long. On checking against a General Arrangement drawing, this was found to be correct; they are 3 mm too long. I therefore reduced the length of these plates by that amount - 3mm - by carefully slitting the plates with a piercing saw - 20 mm from their fronts -  then removing 3 mm wide piece, again with the piercing saw.  A  2 mm x 20 mm strip of .010" brass was then soldered on the inside of the plate at its lower edge to re-join the two parts of the plate, after which the join was filled with solder and then the joint very carefully cleaned up. Each plate took, perhaps, an hour to correct.

 

The joining strip, on the inside of the coal guard plate, will be totally hidden by the coal load.

 

The original 'brief' on these test builds was to check out the original kit as supplied and to then check out the etchings for the new boiler wrapper - representing the later LNER boiler- and the new footplate and splasher etchings representing the last twenty locos built, which were built by the LNER.

 

The brief was very definitely not to identify all of the divergences or dimensional errors from the prototype as none of the original artwork was or is available, So any modifications to the kit could only be made by the provision of replacement parts, which could, conceivably, have involved a large proportion of the etched components i.e. virtually a new kit!

 

I built a LRM N8 (a George Norton kit some thirty years old) but replaced the entire chassis using one of Arthur's J21 chassis etch sets - the N8 and J21 had exactly similar wheel spacing. Various other parts were also replaced or modified i.e. the LRM radial axle, Arthurs chimney, dome, ross pop valves, etc. The result is a very much updated (perhaps even unique) version of this kit build.

 

Since these George Norton or Steve Barnfield kits were drawn and developed, there have been enormous strides made in the quality and accuracy of the etched kits and the availability of cast components. It is simply not possible to reflect these thirty plus years of improvements in those kits!!

 

It is up to the builder to identify and then supplement those older kits to whatever level they consider necessary!!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

Hello Mick and Mike

 

Do you know how is Arthur after his health problems?

 

Has he managed to recommence trading?

 

I do not wanrt to contact him if he is still unwell.

 

Thank you

 

Richard

 

 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2023 by 18131r
spelling

[mikemeg]

3 hours ago, micklner said:

Thanks Mike.

 

A new kit is exactly what is needed. !!

 

As said earlier I have made LRM aware of the kits multiple failings as regards to the Loco , the Tender can now also be added to the list. LRM even list "it" as seperate item for £50 !!!

 

Another message will be sent to LRM re the Tender as well.

 

Mick

 

Mick,

 

And I dare not even list the number of changes and additions which I made to the LRM G5 kits (I built three together) when I built them. Certainly on the B16/1's, G5's, N8 kits I approached all of these builds on the basis that the kit was the basis (and a substantial basis) of a scratch or at least a 'hybrid' build.

 

Having a detailed knowledge of Arthur's range of kits and his castings and knowing of the quality and contents of David Bradwell's range of castings, along with an acceptance that scratch building was always available, as a last resort, I was able to produce models which were, I hope, substantial improvements on the original kits. 

 

Of course what also comes into that equation is the massive improvement in the quality and accuracy of r-t-r models. Just look at the new Bachmann V2;  it is simply wonderful!!

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2023 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

9 minutes ago, 18131r said:

Hello Mick and Mike

 

Do you know how is Arthur after his health problems?

 

Has he managed to recommence trading?

 

I do not wanrt to contact him if he is still unwell.

 

Thank you

 

Richard

 

 

 

 

 

Mick,

 

You're probably better placed to answer this than I as you have had recent dealings with Arthur's business.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

[micklner]

25 minutes ago, mikemeg said:

 

Mick,

 

You're probably better placed to answer this than I as you have had recent dealings with Arthur's business.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

Mike and Richard.

 

Only via Janet his daughter a few months ago, he was progessing well at that time . Hopefully, I have been contacted today re the Toolbox saga and hopefully he has some spare ones. 

Once I know re the Toolboxes I will then email Janet to see how Arthur is, at the same time as finding out if she has any castings. Janet said the last time I emailed her that she hope to keep the kits going.