Class 800 - Updates

[Ken.W]

On 10/06/2019 at 22:05, rodent279 said:

-there were a few posts about coupling compatibility a while back, something to do with 67's with buckeye not being able to couple to 91's or similar.

 

 

It's not an issue though, as both have drophead / swivel head buckeyes with conventional drawhook and buffers...

They're simply coupled using an emergency screw coupling which is carried on the locos

 

There is a coupling adapter which allows the 67's buckeye to couple to an HST emergency drawbar

.... very rarely used of course!

Although it would have been on the one I posted above, I believe it was hauled to Neville Hill for repair - a look at the windscreen in the photo reveals the reason for returning to Doncaster from Shaftholme....

 

And the headcode I quoted in that post, 1W11. Yes, since the timetable change Highland bound LNER services are now 'W' to make them more easily identifiable...

yes, really!... I did have to ask our managers if they were taking the p....

The Highland services are now........ One...Whisky....

Edited June 12, 2019 by Ken.W

[Ken.W]

On 05/06/2019 at 00:24, jim.snowdon said:

Any more of this, and next we'll have staff being told that the running rails are to be treated as live. They do have traction current flowing through them, after all.

 

This has all the feel of risk aversion getting out of hand.

 

Jim

 

On 05/06/2019 at 10:36, Coryton said:

 

It would be interesting to know how Hitachi would give assurance that the train is safe - over the phone after confirmation that the right steps have been taken, or using telemetry, or someone coming down in person?

 

I would hope not the latter, if nobody can give first aid to someone who has gone down the gap between the train and the platform until Hitachi say they can.

 

 

Good question, we've not been told that part, just until the assurance from Hitachi has been received...

 

To what extent the risk is, some vehicles do have underfloor live OHL equipment, or risk aversion, again there's no information on this.

 

Hitachi do seem to be getting themselves a certain unfortunate reputation with these trains though

In a perhaps similar vain, last Monday drivers arriving at Craigentinny / Bounds Green found that, without any notice let alone consultation or agreement, they were now required to were hard hats and safety glasses anywhere on the depot... even just going to take a set out from the sidings without going near maintenance areas. (The depots are now Hitachi's).

This has always been the case at their Doncaster depot, and during training we were required to do so in the Hitachi compound at Tyne Yard... these are 5 sidings in the open air in the yard, with a security fence round and absolutely no maintenance facility, simply stabling sidings, but they're Hitachi's. The rest of the yard you can go around without such equipment! We also weren't even allowed to touch the sets without the Hitachi fitter present, and had to have their induction before entering the compound, even though we've just crossed the rest of the yard ,and are of course, already PTS trained

 

They do seem rather loath to let anyone else do anything with there trains... there's been examples quoted of training sets not being provided at little if any notice when they've wanted them for whatever else.

 

Similarly, the issue discussed a few days ago where, because their washers aren't working, they'd rather they ran dirty than let them be washed elsewhere...

or as discussed earlier, have them running with toilets out of use rather than let the tanks be topped up away from their depots

 

East may translate to Azuma..

does 'co-operation' not translate?

Edited June 11, 2019 by Ken.W

[Ken.W]

On 08/06/2019 at 14:48, 4630 said:

The reason I’ve seen quoted elsewhere is that Cl 91s are cleared for the route between Carlisle and Newcastle (diesel hauled obviously) as it is a reasonably regular diversionary route when there’s engineering work on the ECML north of Newcastle.

 

Thus the ‘route clearance paperwork’ already exists for them to be taken that way.

 

Whereas, as far as I know, a Cl 91 has never been taken to Crewe via the Trans Pennine routes from Leeds or Sheffield to Manchester, so no ‘paperwork’ exists and it wouldn’t be worth the time, effort or money to organise for what is effectively a one-off.

 

Well, I must admit I was amazed at that routing to start with, like 'could they not have found a longer way round to go?' Then thought as they're already cleared for the Newcastle - Carlisle that would probably have something to do with it.

Plus, a 91 has previously (BR days?) worked a test run on the WCML.

 

Actually, thinking about that, yes they could have found a longer way round, via Edinburgh and Carstairs!

(In which case the 91 wouldn't have needed hauling)

[david.hill64]

Ken, How long is the conversion training for IET?

[eastwestdivide]

Another "first impressions" ride... executive summary - not bad at all, including the seats.

 

We were booked on the LNER Hull-London service from Doncaster, an Azuma, returning on the 1903 from KX, a 91+Mk4s, both standard class.

Ride: Very good on the Azuma (and we were sitting over a bogie too), definitely better than the returning Mk4, which was quite jittery both laterally and vertically, and also a lot better than the HSTs I've ridden on the ECML over the last year or so. So 800>Mk4>HST in recent experience.

That Hull-London is routed over the slow line (some jointed track) between Grantham and High Dyke to allow another train to overtake, and it coped just fine with the jointed track, albeit at quite low speeds.

Speed: Acceleration noticeably fast, a bit of early running in places, and GPS recording ~125 with ease, as you'd expect from an electric. 

Ambience: The red colour scheme I found quite nice really, without being overpowering. Also, it was a noticeably quieter environment than the Mk4 on the way back. One niggle was the raised lip on the edge of the table, which is quite narrow, and at a couple of points in the journey it was digging in to my forearm. The corresponding lip on the Mk4 table is broader (~1cm), and didn't cause me any trouble. Used a small (non-accessible) toilet on the Azuma, which I have to say was a bit of a tiny broom cupboard. One detail here is that the sink isn't very deep from front to back: since the water tap is also fairly high above the sink, it's very easy to drip water on your shoes as you're washing your hands. Air dryer reasonably powerful (unlike some trains, notably the 158s).

Which brings us inevitably to...

Seats: We had table seats. I found them fine. At one point I thought the front edge was digging into the back of my thigh, but I uncrossed my legs and shifted position and never thought of it again, and didn't suffer a numb bum as others have reported. NB I'm not at all well-padded - in fact last time I had an injection in my backside, the nurse said "there's not much meat on there, is there". I'm 5'10" ish, with a long back, and the seat seemed to fit me OK in a variety of sitting/slumping positions. My other half is a bit better padded than me, and I'd deliberately not mentioned the seat debate. After the journey, I asked her what she thought of the new train, and in particular the seats, and she didn't notice anything untoward.

 

 

One slightly surprising thing on the Hull-London was the high number of unoccupied reserved seats. A lot of no-shows for some reason, and not all from the same starting point (as you might see if there was a missed connection somewhere).

 

Anyway, there's my 10p-worth.

 

Edited June 11, 2019 by eastwestdivide
minor typos

[Mallard60022]

How many LNERS are there on the Hull service? I suspect many would have preferred the HT service despite it being a bog cart, as it only picks up at Retford and Grantham (after Donny). Is that why the seats were unoccupied as the y had chosen their alternative journey? I have always found this empty booked seat in large numbers  a bit of a mystery. One or two is understandable but loads is weird.

I am doing a Newark to Kings X next week by 800 on the 'new service'. First going up so I can test the GF nosh options this time and cattle class coming back so that I can assess the difference. It will be the same unit on return ABW as I am not staying up there.

Phil

Edited June 11, 2019 by Mallard60022

[4630]

3 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

I didn't think HT were getting Azumas till the end of the year or was this an LNER service?

Phil 

 

It will be an LNER service.

 

1A12, 07.00 Hull to London Kings Cross and 1H10, 17.18 London Kings Cross to Hull are booked Azuma workings.

 

 

[Mallard60022]

3 minutes ago, 4630 said:

 

It will be an LNER service.

 

1A12, 07.00 Hull to London Kings Cross and 1H10, 17.18 London Kings Cross to Hull are booked Azuma workings.

 

 

Yes, sorry, I posted that having not read it properly in the first place and then deleted that post. It just replaces the existing single LNER service then?

P

[4630]

Just now, Mallard60022 said:

Yes, sorry, I posted that having not read it properly in the first place and then deleted that post. It just replaces the existing single LNER service then?

P

 

Yes, that's correct. It was a straight replacement for the LNER HST that operated the service previously.

[eastwestdivide]

Yes, LNER's only Hull-London service is what we caught between Doncaster-London (and an LNER Leeds service back). Hull's services to London start like this:

HT Hull 0626 - KX 0915
LNER Hull 0700 - KX 0953 (recently changed over to Azuma)
HT Hull 0823 - KX 1109
 

Edited June 11, 2019 by eastwestdivide

[Mallard60022]

I'm waiting to try HT's 'new' HST.

P

[royaloak]

1 minute ago, Mallard60022 said:

I'm waiting to try HT's 'new' HST.

P

Get yourself to Bristol and try the GWR 2+4 slam door sets, apart from the HT set having 5 coaches (the extra one is a Buffet First) they are basically the same.

[Mallard60022]

5 minutes ago, royaloak said:

Get yourself to Bristol and try the GWR 2+4 slam door sets, apart from the HT set having 5 coaches (the extra one is a Buffet First) they are basically the same.

I believe the HT sets are ex GWR sets?

P

[royaloak]

1 minute ago, Mallard60022 said:

I believe the HT sets are ex GWR sets?

P

They are indeed, still fully vinyled up as First Great Western despite both sets being dedicated to First Hull Trains.

[Bomag]

I write this going through St Neots on the 15:33 ex KX. I often get the WY executive ticket with the free upgrade to first to get some work done; I won't be doing so in future as the appalling ride coupled with the less that comfy seat mean that I got motion sickness when trying to concentrate. A quick couple of lines and thats it. When  the whole service goes over to 800s it will be back to stearage and with the money saved I will get one of thiose blow up cushions.

 

Also the power sockets and usb keeps on fading out.

 

On the plus side after the Stevenage stop it managed to get to 121 mph by Hitchin.  We have slowed at Peterborough which menas I can finish this post.

 

 

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

Hmm,  interesting day IET wise today as i accompanied a fellow RMweb member to a station I'd suggested to him for train watching  for an hour or so.  I don't know what has happened but there seems to have been a concerted effort to kick Hitachi backsides by GWR as the majority of 80X were the right way round - probably in excess of 70% of the sets I saw were the right way round and several 2x5 formations were also correctly marshalled although not all the right way round.

 

More interesting was 5X41 14.11 Acton ML to Eastleigh Trsmd  which had clearly not passed Acton ML according to RTT so had presumably come via the Goods Lines and was equally presumably ex GN ML.

at some earlier time.  Alas the shutter lag on my little Fuji seems to have deteriorated a bit hence the rather poorly framed first view below as it passed Twyford -

 

[Mallard60022]

2 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Hmm,  interesting day IET wise today as i accompanied a fellow RMweb member to a station I'd suggested to him for train watching  for an hour or so.  I don't know what has happened but there seems to have been a concerted effort to kick Hitachi backsides by GWR as the majority of 80X were the right way round - probably in excess of 70% of the sets I saw were the right way round and several 2x5 formations were also correctly marshalled although not all the right way round.

 

More interesting was 5X41 14.11 Acton ML to Eastleigh Trsmd  which had clearly not passed Acton ML according to RTT so had presumably come via the Goods Lines and was equally presumably ex GN ML.

at some earlier time.  Alas the shutter lag on my little Fuji seems to have deteriorated a bit hence the rather poorly framed first view below as it passed Twyford -

 

NIce in that livery aren't they? Was this going east later SM or is it down at Eastleigh for 'adjustments' perhaps? Might be the one getting ready for practising for the Flying Scotsman inaugural run and needs its' bogie 'ride' sorting out?

Phil

Edited June 11, 2019 by Mallard60022

[jim.snowdon]

7 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

I have always found this empty booked seat in large numbers  a bit of a mystery. One or two is understandable but loads is weird.

Not on afternoon services it isn't. There's quite a few folk who going out and back the same day will book a seat for the return trip even though they are uncertain which train they will be on, just in case and because it's free, so there is no penalty for not being on that train. 

 

Jim

Edited June 11, 2019 by jim.snowdon

[jim.snowdon]

27 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

Do you mean uncertain about their return trip train Jim? If so then I get it.  Presumably they don't have a booked seat on the train they catch? My brain can't cope with working that out?

Phil

You're right, and I have corrected the original text.

 

Jim

[rodent279]

4 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

NIce in that livery aren't they? Was this going east later SM or is it down at Eastleigh for 'adjustments' perhaps? Might be the one getting ready for practising for the Flying Scotsman inaugural run and needs its' bogie 'ride' sorting out?

Phil

LNER red & white does seem to suit them. Is it me, or are they slightly reminiscent, from the sides, of the Blue Pullman's in reverse blue & grey?

[The Stationmaster]

5 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

NIce in that livery aren't they? Was this going east later SM or is it down at Eastleigh for 'adjustments' perhaps? Might be the one getting ready for practising for the Flying Scotsman inaugural run and needs its' bogie 'ride' sorting out?

Phil

I doubt it came back today Phil as it wasn't through Twyford until c.14/50.  It was followed by a. Crossrail tram - which was gradually getting further and further behind it for some reason as I watched on the 'staff information' screen. (Both are capable of the line speed so should have remained evenly spaced).

[Ken.W]

21 hours ago, david.hill64 said:

Ken, How long is the conversion training for IET?

 

As a piece of string?

 

Seriously though, the coarse itself is 3 weeks, however...

this is week 7, and I'm still not finished!

 

Weeks 1 and 2 went fine... classroom work, simulator sessions, and static doing cab prep, isolating cocks etc.

This ends with an assessment and simulator session, which then allows us to go out on them under supervision of a Driver Trainer....

 

On week 3, which is the practical handling.... on which we need to log 20 hours driving

20 hours in a week? = 4 hours a day? easy?

 

Well, to start with, as there was 5 of us  on the course, some did the handling on week 3, while some, myself included, were back on our own turn and then did the handling in the fourth week.

This however, was the first week of the new timetable, and we found that as a.n.other operator had taken half the training paths, the new diagrams were useless...

20 hours? erm, actually managed to get...

11

Yes that's right, 11 hours in a week. I was saying I learned more about traveling passenger!

(and most those who were on the 3rd week didn't get the full time in, though not as bad)

Then the last two weeks (that's 5 & 6) have been the classroom weeks for the next course, so we've not had a training set, and been back on my normal turns again.

 

So here we are now in week 7, with the next coarse now doing their handling as well. I do get one day on them this week,  on Saturday, but on a six hour diagram that's not going to get much more in...

Then if I don't finish in the next two weeks, it'll not be until August

[Ken.W]

18 hours ago, eastwestdivide said:

That Hull-London is routed over the slow line (some jointed track) between Grantham and High Dyke to allow another train to overtake, and it coped just fine with the jointed track, albeit at quite low speeds.

 

Ah yes, that one.

That's 1E01 that passes it..

I mentioned the other day about my last 91 run with 'the flyer' on Friday, and that's the Hull that always gets in the way at Grantham...

It's only got, from booked departure time to getting inside clear on the slow, through a slow crossover a good train length beyond the station, 5 minutes before the 'Scotsmans' due to pass... and never seems to make it, even it seems with an Azuma as I did get checked for it despite deliberately dropping time from Newark to make sure I wasn't at Grantham early.

If we actually get stopped for it, then with 60 mins for 105 miles, there's no way we'll be in on time.

 

The Hull was chosen as LNERs first Azuma service in order to displace the non-standard ex-EMT HST set, which still has the BR interior, that was booked to normally work that service

[Richard E]

That ex EMT HST set used to crop up on York KGX turns now and again in the past as well I believe.

[Oldddudders]

14 minutes ago, Richard E said:

That ex EMT HST set used to crop up on York KGX turns now and again in the past as well I believe.

Must be the one I saw on the stops at KX a couple of weeks ago.