East Coast Main Line to Virgin Trains East Coast

[Richard E]

No, no, you've all got it wrong, that's not Edinburgh, it's East Leake with the prototype .....

[kenw]

He works for the NRM? 

Well, I'll probably be ready to go in the NRM with it

[kenw]

Ken. Congratualations on your length of service - you look too young to have done all those years!

Thanks again, and yes well guess I am almost, I did start quite young.

Although as I've said, it's still not exceptional with front line staff. My previous comment on now being top 10 seniority in a depot of 100, so that's 10% with the same service, and a lot more not far behind.

One thing that hasn't changed since BR days, in particular for driving, it's still very much a career rather than job, very few leave voluntarily.

Not just drivers either, we also have guards who can match, or even beat this, and some station staff too.

And I expect many of the signallers / engineering staff etc on here could tell similar.

 

One particularly notable for long service though, although I'm not sure how long, is one of our CSAs,

who's, a few years now been back working on-board after a number of years on the station,

who was working aboard the 04:45 Newcastle - Kings X, 28/02/01

Edited October 22, 2015 by kenw

[kenw]

Hope those HST's and 91's keep going well for you - let us know what you think about the new units when they arrive.

 

91s keep going well? err, when did they start doing that?

[cravensdmufan]

91s keep going well? err, when did they start doing that?

Ha!  Just speaking from my own, quite extensive, travels up and down the ECML.  Never had one failure!  Sounds like maybe I've been lucky!

[kenw]

Ha!  Just speaking from my own, quite extensive, travels up and down the ECML.  Never had one failure!  Sounds like maybe I've been lucky!

I think quite a few on here will already be familiar with my rather low opinion of 91s. Failures? sorry, lost count.

Pre 91/1 refurbishment, as well as bait I used to carry packets of cup-a-soup - emergency rations, they never went out of date!

 

HSTs, never had a total failure (getting hauled in) with one yet. And learned them in '83

At Gateshead as we were then, even as a Relief Driver ('passed secondman') we had to know HSTs for ECS work to Heaton CS

Edited October 22, 2015 by kenw

[Gary H]

Thanks again, and yes well guess I am almost, I did start quite young.

Although as I've said, it's still not exceptional with front line staff. My previous comment on now being top 10 seniority in a depot of 100, so that's 10% with the same service, and a lot more not far behind.

One thing that hasn't changed since BR days, in particular for driving, it's still very much a career rather than job, very few leave voluntarily.

Not just drivers either, we also have guards who can match, or even beat this, and some station staff too.

And I expect many of the signallers / engineering staff etc on here could tell similar.

 

Indeed, there's a couple of old hands at our place (engineering) who started in 1974. One of those is my manager. A classic old school railwayman if ever I met one. We also have a fair few with around 30 years under their belts too.

Edited October 24, 2015 by Gary H

[caradoc]

Yes, just 20 years. Gone are the days of 40 years dedicated service by professional railway staff!

 

Long Service Awards for how many years nowadays? - five?!

 

Edit: Thinking about it that last sentence was a bit cutting and unfair. My apologies. Make that ten.

 

I think you'll be surprised at how many long serving staff there are, still, on the railway. In my own case, 37 years and counting, almost all spent working shifts. For many staff the railway is more than just a job, it is a way of life and for an awful lot an interest and hobby as well.

[stewartingram]

When I joined about 11years ago (admittedly as a contractor working on LU) I was told that if you lasted 3 years you would never leave.

 

Stewart

[m0rris]

When I joined about 11years ago (admittedly as a contractor working on LU) I was told that if you lasted 3 years you would never leave.

 

Stewart

 

I was told on joining last year, that if I made it past the first month, that I'd be in for life... I've now pushed past the year mark and haven't looked back. The railway relies on people who know what they are doing and is a pretty great place to work for all its sins.

[Rusty.J]

Olivia's Trains now selling a Class 91 and HST respray. Surprisingly (NOT) at a further 80 quid approx. Seems to be the most expensive company to do a respray of anything.

 

http://www.oliviastrains.com/trains/model-trains/Hornby-diesel-electrics/Hornby-class-91/Hornby-class-91-124-in-virgin-east-coast-livery/

 

http://www.oliviastrains.com/trains/model-trains/Hornby-diesel-electrics/Hornby-class-43-high-speed-train/Hornby-class-43-hst-43311-43312-in-virgin-east-coast-livery/

[david.hill64]

I think quite a few on here will already be familiar with my rather low opinion of 91s. Failures? sorry, lost count.

Pre 91/1 refurbishment, as well as bait I used to carry packets of cup-a-soup - emergency rations, they never went out of date!

 

HSTs, never had a total failure (getting hauled in) with one yet. And learned them in '83

At Gateshead as we were then, even as a Relief Driver ('passed secondman') we had to know HSTs for ECS work to Heaton CS

At Eversholt in the mod 90's we seriously looked at the possibility of a new class 89 build. The 89 was named 'Avocet'. Bounds Green staff joked that the 91's were named 'Ave-a-reset'.

[Legend]

Olivia's Trains now selling a Class 91 and HST respray. Surprisingly (NOT) at a further 80 quid approx. Seems to be the most expensive company to do a respray of anything.

 

http://www.oliviastrains.com/trains/model-trains/Hornby-diesel-electrics/Hornby-class-91/Hornby-class-91-124-in-virgin-east-coast-livery/

 

http://www.oliviastrains.com/trains/model-trains/Hornby-diesel-electrics/Hornby-class-43-high-speed-train/Hornby-class-43-hst-43311-43312-in-virgin-east-coast-livery/

Very nice . I suspect Hornby may give us a relivery at Chistmas though. Still of the opinion that VTEC is one of the nicest modern liveries around

[m0rris]

At Eversholt in the mod 90's we seriously looked at the possibility of a new class 89 build. The 89 was named 'Avocet'. Bounds Green staff joked that the 91's were named 'Ave-a-reset'.

 

The class 89 has to be the biggest rollingstock "what-if" of its period, possibly until the IC250 project. There was talk a while ago of Bombardier snooping around the bogie design of the 89 for a potential UK offering of Traxx, but allegedly Brush wanted too much and it came to nought.

[frobisher]

The class 89 has to be the biggest rollingstock "what-if" of its period, possibly until the IC250 project. There was talk a while ago of Bombardier snooping around the bogie design of the 89 for a potential UK offering of Traxx, but allegedly Brush wanted too much and it came to nought.

I seem to recall a similar situation came up with the 67's as well as it is the only 3 axle designed currently passed for 125mph running in the UK, certainly at the time. I'm wondering if refurbished bogies off of scrapped 58's could have been made compliant?

[Richard E]

Failed 225 sat in York this evening, causing all sorts of fun as it is(was) in platform 5. They tend to only use 3 & 5 for Southbound through services so lots of platform changes going on.

[Gary H]

Failed 225 sat in York this evening, causing all sorts of fun as it is(was) in platform 5. They tend to only use 3 & 5 for Southbound through services so lots of platform changes going on.

And funnily enough, back in post 233^^^^^

What were you saying about 91's Ken?

[kenw]

And funnily enough, back in post 233^^^^^

What were you saying about 91's Ken?

only what I've always said about 91s.

Like I replied to previous discussion on here about them being cascaded when the IEPs come,

WHO would want them??? EMT and Anglia were both notable in promptly saying NO!

 

Not working today, (lucky), but was in Newcastle just in time to see the 12:25 TO Kings X arriving back in again, just in time to transfer its unlucky passengers onto the 14:25 Kings X. It had made it as far as Chester-le-Street (all of about 8 miles) before requiring the assistance of the 67 to get back.

 

"I rest my case"

[The Stationmaster]

only what I've always said about 91s.

Like I replied to previous discussion on here about them being cascaded when the IEPs come,

WHO would want them??? EMT and Anglia were both notable in promptly saying NO!

 

Not working today, (lucky), but was in Newcastle just in time to see the 12:25 TO Kings X arriving back in again, just in time to transfer its unlucky passengers onto the 14:25 Kings X. It had made it as far as Chester-le-Street (all of about 8 miles) before requiring the assistance of the 67 to get back.

 

"I rest my case"

And whatever happened to the 06,50 Glasgow at durham and south thereof resulted in an hour's delay to a Cross Country train I was waiting for nearly 200 miles further south.  Seems almost as if VTEC have given up on their trains 'pending IEP' while meanwhile GWR is spending money on work on its HST fleet (and just on coats of paint). 

[pete_mcfarlane]

And whatever happened to the 06,50 Glasgow at durham and south thereof resulted in an hour's delay to a Cross Country train I was waiting for nearly 200 miles further south.  Seems almost as if VTEC have given up on their trains 'pending IEP' while meanwhile GWR is spending money on work on its HST fleet (and just on coats of paint). 

Didn't they do something similar on the WCML before the Pendelinos came? They certainly made a big thing about how ancient their 10-15 year old Mk3s and Class 90s were.

[Richard E]

Oh good grief, the 800's are not due until 2018. So that is two years plus of failing 225's to endure then! And that means I won't get to commute on an 800 either, now is that a bonus or a fail?

 

Funny announcement this morning on 1S05. The guard announced "I apologise to customers in Coach F but I am unable to switch the lights on due to a switch fault. We will endeavour to correct this as soon as possible". Not had one quite like that before, mind you I wasn't too concerned having settled into coach B.

 

Oh, it was a 225 again!

 

The only time I've had a 125 fail was four years ago or so in the snow when a block of snow/ice dropped off the front power car and bounced it's way down the underside of the train taking out bits of brake system on the way. The Thunderbird, which took two hours to reach us, went past us on the down line (we were not far north of Donny) and then proceeded to propel us into Donny where the contents of a full and standing HST were decanted onto the next train, a full HST, headed for London.

[Gary H]

Oh good grief, the 800's are not due until 2018. So that is two years plus of failing 225's to endure then! And that means I won't get to commute on an 800 either, now is that a bonus or a fail?

 

I think you could be missing the 225's and MK4 sets after a short while with the Hitachi rail busses poo tubes to be honest.

Still, atleast you'll have the quiet version. Please think of us poor unfortunate souls in Devon & Cornwall who will lose their beloved and much lamented HST's for the Hitachi underfloor diesel engine / buzz saw version!

[kenw]

Oh good grief, the 800's are not due until 2018. So that is two years plus of failing 225's to endure then! And that means I won't get to commute on an 800 either, now is that a bonus or a fail?

 

Funny announcement this morning on 1S05. The guard announced "I apologise to customers in Coach F but I am unable to switch the lights on due to a switch fault. We will endeavour to correct this as soon as possible". Not had one quite like that before, mind you I wasn't too concerned having settled into coach B.

 

Oh, it was a 225 again!

 

The only time I've had a 125 fail was four years ago or so in the snow when a block of snow/ice dropped off the front power car and bounced it's way down the underside of the train taking out bits of brake system on the way. The Thunderbird, which took two hours to reach us, went past us on the down line (we were not far north of Donny) and then proceeded to propel us into Donny where the contents of a full and standing HST were decanted onto the next train, a full HST, headed for London.

I think you could be missing the 225's and MK4 sets after a short while with the Hitachi rail busses poo tubes to be honest.

Still, atleast you'll have the quiet version. Please think of us poor unfortunate souls in Devon & Cornwall who will lose their beloved and much lamented HST's for the Hitachi underfloor diesel engine / buzz saw version!

 

Afraid it'll probably be a bit longer than that, as our first 800s will be the underfloor diesel engine / bi-mode version to replace our 125s too, as these aren't planned to be made 2020 compliant.

It'll only be later that we get the all electric 800s to replace the 225 / MkIV sets, and even then we still get to keep six of them 

 

Personally, I'll reserve judgement on the 800 till having actually seen a one.

Although, no doubt, the way the contract will be tied up, if they have anything like the reliability of the 91/MkIVs, Hitachi would end up paying us for them!

 

Which brings in another interesting point. Actually, none of us, including the trainers, have even seen one yet, other than a few reps.

Even the test running's being done by another company.

There's somewhere around 300 drivers to train, and the trainings currently expected to be 5 weeks, as it also has to include ERTMS in order to be able to work them.

So, that's 1500 weeks, or 30 years, of training to be done within the next 3 year, and we still have to run the existing service at the same time

Edited November 3, 2015 by kenw

[Richard E]

OK, I'll accept those comments as positive news that I won't have to commute on an 800 since the consensus to date seems to be that they are not nice ...

[The Stationmaster]

Afraid it'll probably be a bit longer than that, as our first 800s will be the underfloor diesel engine / bi-mode version to replace our 125s too, as these aren't planned to be made 2020 compliant.

It'll only be later that we get the all electric 800s to replace the 225 / MkIV sets, and even then we still get to keep six of them 

 

Personally, I'll reserve judgement on the 800 till having actually seen a one.

Although, no doubt, the way the contract will be tied up, if they have anything like the reliability of the 91/MkIVs, Hitachi would end up paying us for them!

 

Which brings in another interesting point. Actually, none of us, including the trainers, have even seen one yet, other than a few reps.

Even the test running's being done by another company.

There's somewhere around 300 drivers to train, and the trainings currently expected to be 5 weeks, as it also has to include ERTMS in order to be able to work them.

So, that's 1500 weeks, or 30 years, of training to be done within the next 3 year, and we still have to run the existing service at the same time

Interesting numbers Ken.  Assuming some of the much heralded accelerations actually happen I suppose it's conceivable that some small reduction in Driver numbers might be possible but it will still be a very big task to release and cover for that level of training.  And no doubt the size of each group released will also have an 'interesting' effect - presumably your new franchise owners will have taken the costs into account in their bid (not)? If you could release 10 men at a time I reckon the best you could do - keeping leave etc in mind - is run 9 courses per trainer per year = 90 Drivers trained per year.  If you could run two courses that would do twice as many, i.e. 180 Drivers trained per annum but I'd be surprised if 20 Drivers could be released during the main leave period (even 10 might be pushing it?) so it's an interesting challenge, and of course you need a train to train them on.

 

GWR are planning to start training on electrics in the new year (which month of the first three seems to depend on who told you) but that's for the existing types of unit for outer-suburban etc work.  That will presumably affect different depots from those having to learn 80X sets but that still creates a demand for trainers unless that role will be handed over to suitably qualified Drivers rather than using Inspectors although no doubt the classroom and some of the static stuff could be handled by other folk.

 

But overall with a 5 week training programme for 80X sets one is left wondering to just what extent that has been factored into DafT's plans for train cascades and the contracted dates to take on the Class 80X sets?  Somehow I'm not exactly brimming with confidence if that bunch have been involved in deciding dates and changeover phasing.