Hornby Merchant Navy announced (formerly Facebook leak)

[Ozexpatriate]

... all the chatter on this topic makes me wonder if there has been a leak from the Bachmann camp. 

Doubtless there are some who are in the know. For most of us it is an educated guess.

 

Farish has made a Merchant Navy (due out later this year) and Bachmann has made comments to the effect that they will leverage design data across scales when they can so it seems logical.  Bachmann may of course not announce one, but their 2015/16 catalogues are presumably all printed by now.

 

I'm not aware of a 'public' leak. That the people running Chinese factories might know what each other are doing is very plausible.

[Hroth]

But,...bb'b' but.... I prefer chopped Ham with Pork !

Bloody Vikings!!!

 

ahem.......

 

Sorry, I'll leave now - its been a long day......

[RFS]

.

 

Did the Sothern ever paint any of their coaches in green with two or three narrow yellow stripes to match the initial livery of the Merchant Navies ?

 

.

No that didn't happen.

[Ozexpatriate]

But,...bb'b' but.... I prefer chopped Ham with Pork !

Bloody Vikings!!!

 

ahem.......

Nice catch. I should have picked up on Ceptic's avatar and the great Viking victory at the Green Midget Cafe in Bromley. "Once again the Viking strategy was the same. They sailed from these fiords here, assembled at Trondheim and waited for the strong north-easterly winds to blow their oaken galleys to England whence they sailed on May 23rd. Once in Bromley they assembled in the Green Midget cafe."

 

You all know what happened.The Vikings took great delight in announcements of models of Merchant Navy locomotives.

Edited March 1, 2015 by Ozexpatriate

[trevor7598]

.

 

Did the Sothern ever paint any of their coaches in green with two or three narrow yellow stripes to match the initial livery of the Merchant Navies ?

 

.

No yellow stripes on Bulleid coaches, but the Southern Railway did produce a modern streamline train.

An original MN hauling one of the Bournemouth line six car dining sets.Loco and coaches perfectly matched!!

 But the SR never advertised or acknowledged the fact that they had such a train.

I think their publicity dept. missed a trick!.

[Horsetan]

You may find that Phoenix Precision Paints have these models, as they purchased the former NNK range.

....and, like much of the stuff they've taken over, most of it's unavailable, and likely to remain so.

 

It's just a repeat of what happened when Karlgarin took over Impetus Kits. Everything died.

[Ian Hargrave]

No yellow stripes on Bulleid coaches, but the Southern Railway did produce a modern streamline train.

An original MN hauling one of the Bournemouth line six car dining sets.Loco and coaches perfectly matched!!

 But the SR never advertised or acknowledged the fact that they had such a train.

I think their publicity dept. missed a trick!.

Anyone remember theTavern coaches ?

[brushman47544]

Hornby and Bachmann have been poaching one another's products for years, but in terms of high spec models they have really only gone head to head twice: on the 08, and on the Standard 4MT 4-6-0. The two 08s seem to have done similarly well, whereas the Hornby 4MT appears to have vanished without trace leaving the field clear for the Bachmann version. I'd be interested to learn how sales of the two models have compared.

 

My understanding was that sales of both the Hornby and Bachmann Std. 4MT have been disappointing. IIRC Bachmann said that people were hanging onto their existing models rather than upgrading to the new ones and that this was what convinced them to follow the upgraded chassis approach (to replace split chassis with DCC Ready versions) rather than fully retool.

[Fenman]

Hornby and Bachmann have been poaching one another's products for years, but in terms of high spec models they have really only gone head to head twice: on the 08, and on the Standard 4MT 4-6-0. The two 08s seem to have done similarly well, whereas the Hornby 4MT appears to have vanished without trace leaving the field clear for the Bachmann version. I'd be interested to learn how sales of the two models have compared.

 

Yes, I'd also be interested in the sales figures, but I suspect we won't ever see them. Even if we did, they may just tell us that Hornby has a much stronger brand than Bachmann and, therefore, benefits from a big tail of "indulgent grandparent" purchases.

 

Anyway, there are some other examples where they've got competing models pitched at the same standard: the A4 may be the most obvious. Interestingly, despite many people asserting that Bachmann is much more interested in the hard-core modeller market they don't always win these head-to-heads: most people seem to think that Hornby's 08 and A4 are both better representations than Bachmann's. 

 

Behaviour when duplications are discovered does vary, too. Hornby abandoned its full-fat 9F when Bachmann announced they were also doing one, instead giving us a Railroad version and leaving the field clear for Bachmann.

 

In general I think competition is to be welcomed. With Rapido and DJM both promising much higher-spec models (though, in fairness, neither has actually delivered anything yet), I guess both the main manufacturers have had to think about upping their game. Today's announcements should be interesting.

 

Paul

Edited March 2, 2015 by Fenman

[trevor7598]

Anyone remember theTavern coaches ?

Yes I remember the Taverns,when converted to green buffet cars,had a pork pie in one on the way home

from Exeter.

But seriously the Tavern signs, and all that fake brickwork and fake tudor beams just cry

out for modern tampo printing. YES bring on a Tavern set!!.

[Hroth]

But seriously the Tavern signs, and all that fake brickwork and fake tudor beams just cry

out for modern tampo printing. YES bring on a Tavern set!!.

After all the hoo-ha about the graffiti coach???

 

Yes - lets have a tavern set!

[melmerby]

The official photos of 21C1 when new show a lined livery.

Was that just lined photographic grey or was it green?

it also had cast numbers all round and cast "SOUTHERN" on the tender.

Did that last long?

 

The rest of the wartime built locos all seem to have been black from the outset with transfers for numbers and insignia apart from the smokebox "wheel" logo.

 

Cheers

 

Keith

[toboldlygo]

The official photos of 21C1 when new show a lined livery.

Was that just lined photographic grey or was it green?

it also had cast numbers all round and cast "SOUTHERN" on the tender.

Did that last long?

 

The rest of the wartime built locos all seem to have been black from the outset with transfers for numbers and insignia apart from the smokebox "wheel" logo.

 

Cheers

 

Keith

Ex-works 21C1 was matt malachite green and lined, by the time she was repainted in early BR Blue she had lost the cast plates.

 

 

21C2 also received Malachite green and cast plates

Edited March 2, 2015 by toboldlygo

[petethemole]

21C1 was turned out in green.

[Black 5 Bear]

A late version BR would answers my prayers, lol 

[Dunsignalling]

Hornby and Bachmann have been poaching one another's products for years, but in terms of high spec models they have really only gone head to head twice: on the 08, and on the Standard 4MT 4-6-0. The two 08s seem to have done similarly well, whereas the Hornby 4MT appears to have vanished without trace leaving the field clear for the Bachmann version. I'd be interested to learn how sales of the two models have compared.

My own experience of this started with buying one of each.

 

If I'm entirely objective about it, Hornby's version had the edge but for the valve gear (most particularly the motion bracket) which I wasn't at all keen on.  

 

What clinched things for me, though, was that the Bachmann one "fitted in" visually with all my other Bachmann Standards whereas the Hornby model just looked "different".

 

In the end, my Hornby 4MT got moved on and I bought another Bachmann one.

 

John   

[Andy Y]

Sneaky leak 10 minutes ahead of time. There is no MN in the blue team's announcements.

[farren]

Maybe it's big and red then

[JaymzHatstand]

Sneaky leak 10 minutes ahead of time. There is no MN in the blue team's announcements.

That's good, the way some have been banging on, it's as if one had already been announced!

 

Once wonders though if it was withdrawn given the Hornby announcement, if so then (in my opinion) it was a sensible move. And now the speculators will run wild!

 

Cheers

 

J

[Forester]

Sneaky leak 10 minutes ahead of time. There is no MN in the blue team's announcements.

 

That doesn't mean they are not planning to do one.

 

Just saving it as a spoiler to Hornby's next announcement ..................

[Combe Martin]

Referring to post 301 above, it's an S15 and J50 that have been withdrawn.  Just read the announcement fully.

[7013]

Thank goodness Bachmann have not announced a MN, now perhaps people will concentrate on the Hornby model and what we can expect .

[Graham_Muz]

That's good, the way some have been banging on, it's as if one had already been announced!

Once wonders though if it was withdrawn given the Hornby announcement, if so then (in my opinion) it was a sensible move. And now the speculators will run wild!

Cheers

J

As printed catalogues were given to us today it very much confirms that the MN was not going to part of the range and therefore definitely not pulled as a result of the Hornby announcement.

Having spoken to their R&D team today it is not on the cards for a future release in 00 either.

[JSpencer]

That leaves 2 further speculations.

 

1) on the Rapido next project teasing thread, one poster suggested that it might be an MN. Something many miles away from Rapidos stamping grounds but who knows, maybe Hornby felt a cold shiver and announced it...

 

2) Hornby knew Bachmann had no southern steamers in the line up. To calm southern enthusiasts and avoid their rival from taking a panning, they announced the MN to save their rival from such a fate.

 

Ok i will buy one of each variant they do, including 21C1 in very early days and a batch one in BR days, then batch 2 and 3 proving they do all 3 basic tender types to go with it. Looking at past performance, Hornby may not cover all that and indeed 2 variants of the first batch will be fine for me.

 

To date I think Hornby have done the rebuilt MN with one body variant (I think BR was quite consistent in rebuilding them so that would make for a limit) and 2 later batch type tenders (both cut down style).

 

For the WC and BB, there seems to be 3 basic variants for the air smoothed, 1 for the rebuilt (maybe because there are no major variants so to speak) and 4 tender types, mix of sizes, cut down or not.

[Dunsignalling]

That leaves 2 further speculations.

 

1) on the Rapido next project teasing thread, one poster suggested that it might be an MN. Something many miles away from Rapidos stamping grounds but who knows, maybe Hornby felt a cold shiver and announced it...

 

2) Hornby knew Bachmann had no southern steamers in the line up. To calm southern enthusiasts and avoid their rival from taking a panning, they announced the MN to save their rival from such a fate.

 

Ok i will buy one of each variant they do, including 21C1 in very early days and a batch one in BR days, then batch 2 and 3 proving they do all 3 basic tender types to go with it. Looking at past performance, Hornby may not cover all that and indeed 2 variants of the first batch will be fine for me.

 

To date I think Hornby have done the rebuilt MN with one body variant (I think BR was quite consistent in rebuilding them so that would make for a limit) and 2 later batch type tenders (both cut down style).

 

For the WC and BB, there seems to be 3 basic variants for the air smoothed, 1 for the rebuilt (maybe because there are no major variants so to speak) and 4 tender types, mix of sizes, cut down or not.

I really can't imagine Hornby doing anything to save Bachmann from embarrassment!

 

There is quite a lot of mileage still to be got from Hornby's existing range of Bulleid Pacifics just by producing different tender bodies but, given the number of other Southern locos due from Hornby this year and next, I don't expect to see any until they announce an update for the Rebuilt MN.

 

However, there is an obvious and (by the early sixties) quite common combination, as yet not produced, that is open to them from existing tooling. A wide-cab air-smoothed Light Pacific paired with a cut-down 4500 gallon tender, having lost it's original large one to a rebuilt classmate.  

 

John

Edited March 2, 2015 by Dunsignalling