Hornby Merchant Navy announced (formerly Facebook leak)

[DoverPriory]

OK I think we are mostly in agreement that the model looks good and performs well but the sound is naff. So what replacement sound do we fit? My recent WC and BoB buys have had Legomanbiffo chips fitted (and d*mned good they are to).So suggestions please. Although well over 70 myself I never came face to face with an unrebuilt MN the only comparison I have in my head is rebuilt BoBs.

[adb968008]

unfortunately i'm not as sure the technique will work as well with 46235 later this year.

The MN works as it gives cheap chips to the chipless, but more importantly gives an original MN to the Original MN-less.

 

Most people who want a Duchess will probably have a Duchess or two already, so its an individual maths formula of quality / price  to determine if they buy.

Edited August 5, 2017 by adb968008

[Ian Hargrave]

OK I think we are mostly in agreement that the model looks good and performs well but the sound is naff. So what replacement sound do we fit? My recent WC and BoB buys have had Legomanbiffo chips fitted (and d*mned good they are to).So suggestions please. Although well over 70 myself I never came face to face with an unrebuilt MN the only comparison I have in my head is rebuilt BoBs.

Little if any difference....from one who did.You get the message.

[adb968008]

OK I think we are mostly in agreement that the model looks good and performs well but the sound is naff. So what replacement sound do we fit? My recent WC and BoB buys have had Legomanbiffo chips fitted (and d*mned good they are to).So suggestions please. Although well over 70 myself I never came face to face with an unrebuilt MN the only comparison I have in my head is rebuilt BoBs.

Don't all Bulleids sound the same ?

Wheelslip, long whistle and a sound of chuffing sounding like it's coming from a tin can ?

Edited August 5, 2017 by adb968008

[DoverPriory]

My experience of Bulleids is restricted to WCs and BoBs. To my 'ear' Tangmere (unmodified) and Braunton (rebuilt) sound quite different. Braunton sounds more 'butch' whereas Tangmere has the characteristic muffled 'chuffing sound coming from inside a tin can'. I am not technically competent to know why. The major change in rebuilding ,we know, was to get rid of the open oil bath gearing that was liable to catching fire.But I presume other changes to boilers etc took place and the modified versions were said to be much more economical.

I have never 'met' a MN - they were too heavy for our 'neck of the woods'. But I would presume they sounded more powerful judging by the duties they performed on Southern?

[Dunsignalling]

My experience of Bulleids is restricted to WCs and BoBs. To my 'ear' Tangmere (unmodified) and Braunton (rebuilt) sound quite different. Braunton sounds more 'butch' whereas Tangmere has the characteristic muffled 'chuffing sound coming from inside a tin can'. I am not technically competent to know why. The major change in rebuilding ,we know, was to get rid of the open oil bath gearing that was liable to catching fire.But I presume other changes to boilers etc took place and the modified versions were said to be much more economical.

I have never 'met' a MN - they were too heavy for our 'neck of the woods'. But I would presume they sounded more powerful judging by the duties they performed on Southern?

The boilers weren't touched in the rebuilding process, but the smokebox was replaced. The original design more-or-less follows the shape of the outer casing so a new, cylindrical, one was required for aesthetic reasons when that was done away with.

 

The rebuilt locos undoubtedly used less oil and replacing the reverser made them much more predictable performers, perhaps a little below what an original could do if everything was spot-on but a good deal better than most would deliver under everyday operating conditions. The better controllability would have affected coal and water consumption to some degree but, again, any comparison against a "perfect" original will differ from one conducted using an "average" specimen. Preserved locos are generally kept better and worked less hard so the differences now will be less than achieved under BR. Has anybody recorded/compared performance and economy figures from "Tangmere" and "Braunton" in recent years, I wonder? 

 

Aurally, I agree that the rebuilt sound is a bit deeper but, other than from fairly close-up and pulling hard, it takes a practiced ear to tell them apart. That is unless the valve gear on the original is a bit "off" when it sounds noticeably more uneven than a normal 3-cylinder beat. IIRC, at one time, "Wadebridge" (in preservation) displayed this trait for quite a while.  

 

A similar, but slightly less pronounced example could be heard with Flying Scotsman before-and-after Riley's work on her. She'd never (to my ear) sounded like a "proper" 3-cylinder engine, (compared to an A4 or a rebuilt Bulleid) in the past and now she does. We now know that she hadn't been put back together quite right during her final BR overhaul.   

 

John

Edited August 9, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[melmerby]

 

A similar, but slightly less pronounced example could be heard with Flying Scotsman before-and-after Riley's work on her. She'd never (to my ear) sounded like a "proper" 3-cylinder engine, (compared to an A4 or a rebuilt Bulleid) in the past and now she does. We now know that she hadn't been put back together quite right during her final BR overhaul.   

 

John

Surely FS was far from as it should have been in the later years before the NRM got hold of it?

Botched repairs/overhauls, wrong boiler pressure etc.

 

Keith

[Dunsignalling]

Surely FS was far from as it should have been in the later years before the NRM got hold of it?

Botched repairs/overhauls, wrong boiler pressure etc.

 

Keith

Whatever else was wrong with it, my point related to the valve events, which were out of kilter because of the misaligned middle cylinder, though I concede that other shortcomings might have been contributory factors.

 

John

Edited August 9, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[7013]

Judging by what I have read there is little difference (soundwise) between an unrebuilt MN and WC/BB. Ian (Hargrave) always gives a pretty decent analysis of topics so if a WC/BB Legomanbiffo is near enough for him that will do me. I was edging towards one of theirs anyway. To be honest my concern was whether the chip was correctly set to give the proper amount of chuffs per revolution which i am assuming the Legoman chip does.

[Ian Hargrave]

Judging by what I have read there is little difference (soundwise) between an unrebuilt MN and WC/BB. Ian (Hargrave) always gives a pretty decent analysis of topics so if a WC/BB Legomanbiffo is near enough for him that will do me. I was edging towards one of theirs anyway. To be honest my concern was whether the chip was correctly set to give the proper amount of chuffs per revolution which i am assuming the Legoman chip does.

 

Sorry,the one sound-fitted example of a Bulleid Pacific that I have is rebuilt WC "Crewkerne" which is a Hornby ESU Loksound fitted.(2012) It sounds good to me.I cannot speak for Legomanbiffo.Hornby appear to have given up on producing these sound fitted species

[7013]

Thanks Ian, I will go for a Legoman Biffo chip because I know they are good.

[Ian Hargrave]

Thanks Ian, I will go for a Legoman Biffo chip because I know they are good.

 

Good luck.If you don't mind the expense,I'm sure you will achieve a superior outcome.A Bulled Pacific sound is like none other.

[Rising Standards]

Legomanbiffo does the diesel projects for DC Kits, while Locoman handles steam. I have the Locoman WC/BoB project giving a voice to 34041 Wilton and it's excellent, particularly when paired with a bass enhanced speaker mounted towards the front of the loco (as per the demo model they run at shows). The number of chuffs per revolution is set by two CVs, and takes a while to get right, but the end result is well worth it when you see it chatter away from a station stop. Rebuilt Merchants and light pacifics seem to sound pretty similar, so I'd have no qualms personally about using this project in an original Merchant Navy.

[7013]

Thank you chaps Lego/Locoman I mean the same DC kits team. If I am looking at the drivers side on moving, would it be six beats per one full revolution or three? 

[Rising Standards]

You want six beats per revolution, due to each cylinder acting in both directions.

[lochlongside]

Legomanbiffo does the diesel projects for DC Kits, while Locoman handles steam. I have the Locoman WC/BoB project giving a voice to 34041 Wilton and it's excellent, particularly when paired with a bass enhanced speaker mounted towards the front of the loco (as per the demo model they run at shows). The number of chuffs per revolution is set by two CVs, and takes a while to get right, but the end result is well worth it when you see it chatter away from a station stop. Rebuilt Merchants and light pacifics seem to sound pretty similar, so I'd have no qualms personally about using this project in an original Merchant Navy.

Good day,

I had been looking on You-tube (w/o success but still searching ) for an example of the Legomanbiffo WC/BoB sound to compare with HA Line TTS so glad to hear it is recommended. Thank you for that - what speaker did you use?

 

Also a comment on TTS - I haven't picked up on here any comment here about the TTS wheelslip function (My first memory of a rebuilt one of these restarting on the bank up to Branksome with a Wessex Express).  When I select wheelslip for the normal 2-3 revolution and then turn it off,  all sound pauses noticeably after the wheel slip (e.g. 0.3-1 sec of dead silence - not timed it but....), before continuing normally. This is consistent not a one off, and at odds with what I see nowadays for real. Has anyone else heard/noticed this?

[7013]

Go on to DCkits website, follow the links to Locoman, you can access the sounds there. I have just ordered one today for my MN.

I note that the loco was only achieving 3beats (chuffs) per revolution but this can be adjusted by using CV 57 and 58 for a Lok sound V4 or if you are not too bothered left alone. The sound is a world apart from the TTS sound.

[lochlongside]

Go on to DCkits website, follow the links to Locoman, you can access the sounds there. I have just ordered one today for my MN.

I note that the loco was only achieving 3beats (chuffs) per revolution but this can be adjusted by using CV 57 and 58 for a Lok sound V4 or if you are not too bothered left alone. The sound is a world apart from the TTS sound.

Ok got it -  Thank you

I had been searching on MN not Wc/BoB - assuming that as some sound providers had separated these out that there was some subtle difference that I needed to worry about. The linked You-Tube example appears to have nailed down an overall deeper tone that appears much more realistic. As this is probably going to be my first chip replacement project (as opposed to buying equipped and then tinkering) it would be appreciated if you could (would ?!)  advise which speaker option you went for (and why)  - there appear to be 3 options.

P.S thank you also for CV info

[7013]

I have gone for the standard speaker. I figure that I would see how that performed first. There are lots of good speakers on the market a reasonable prices. I see some people are experimenting with mobile phone speakers too. So my reasoning was start with the simplest set up and take it from there. I have several sound chips (diesel) from this team and they always sound excellent.

[SRman]

I received my Holland Afrika Line yesterday. It ran beautifully straight out of the box, but I agree with comments about the sound not suiting the MN/WC/BoB. However, I think it would better suit a two cylinder type, so will contemplate transferring the sound decoder and speaker into something suitable, like a T9 or a BR Standard - the whistle may be more appropriate for the latter.

The model itself is superb, and puts my kit-built one in its place.

 

I may experiment with different speakers too - even the best sound decoders often need something different from the originally supplied speakers to get the best out of the loaded sounds.

Edited August 15, 2017 by SRman

[Guest Midland Mole @ Footplate]

Just a quick post to say we have now sold out of the Sound removed Holland-Afrika Lines, but we still have the Sound fitted versions in stock.

Alex @ Footplate

[7013]

I bought the Locoman WC/BB sound chip for my MN. First thing I noticed straight out of the box was that the supplied speaker was far too big to go into the tender without serious hacking. So I purchased an Uhlenbrock 28mm circular speaker from my local shop. Soldered it up and placed it face down inside the tender so that the sound went out of the bottom. The resonance box would not fit so  covered the back of the speaker housing with a thin layer of blue tac to seal it. The sound is absolutely superb with the correct chuffs per revolution a nice soft deep chuff. I still had to cut a small slot out of the bunker as its all a bit tight, but the result is worth itI I could have used one of Uhlenbrock small phone speakers which would fit without having to modify the bunker, but I am really pleased with the result. I will post a sound video when I get it on the club test track.

[gwrrob]

Royal Mail looks splendid.

 

[Ian Hargrave]

As a point of historical interest,did one stray onto the South Devon banks at any time ? Just trying to control a bout of apoplexy at the sight.But you are right,it does look wonderful.A permanent or temporary resident,Robin ?

[gwrrob]

As a point of historical interest,did one stray onto the South Devon banks at any time ? Just trying to control a bout of apoplexy at the sight.But you are right,it does look wonderful.A permanent or temporary resident,Robin ?

 

Never seen west of Exeter so highly unlikely. Only temporary Ian, she's not mine.