Driving standards

[Reorte]

18 minutes ago, SM42 said:

And talking of LEDs, the street lamp opposite SM42 towers has been converted to LED. Now I have to stand to one side of the front door when I get home at night so that I can get some light  to see the key hole from  the  sodium lamp that's about 20yds further away. The LED lamp has a nice pool of light under it about 20ft across but then almost  total darkness if not for that sodium job nearby.

 

Congratulations. The gas lamp has been re-invented. Game of Kick-can nurky anyone

 

IMO that's an improvement, if the streetlighting is only lighting what it's there for (the street).

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

16 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

Not only cyclists but pedestrians do not seem to like making themselves visible at night. Is it only me that thinks that the new LED streetlights make those wearing dark clothing even less visible?

As already mentioned above, this is not a function specifically of LED as the light source, but that by design newly installed street lighting is directional to reduce so called 'light pollution', intended to solely illuminate the road surface. It is a lot less useful than the diffused output of traditional street lighting, as a down lighter isn't capable of effectively illuminating near vertical surfaces: such as are found commonly on pedestrians, cyclists, and many vehicles, which are the road users. Such objects have to be perceived as moving silhouettes in this lighting, and I feel that our vision system is of reduced effectiveness in this condition.

 

We don't complain about 'light pollution' when the big yellow thing is the source of daylight. This source provides a usefully diffused light, with which of course our visual apparatus works best.

[PhilJ W]

1 hour ago, caradoc said:

 

When cycling, even though I am never out after dark, I always wear bright clothing in the interest of my own safety, but I am constantly surprised at the number of cyclists who seem to want to be invisible ! On the other hand, unless out on an unlit road, without pavements, I do not see any need for pedestrians to wear hi-vis clothing. 

 

Pedestrians hereabouts tend to dart out of the shadows into the roads.

[royaloak]

2 hours ago, Reorte said:

 

IMO that's an improvement, if the streetlighting is only lighting what it's there for (the street).

Street lights are slightly more than 40ft apart so what is lighting the street between the 20ft pools of light?

Edited December 10, 2019 by royaloak

[kevinlms]

4 hours ago, SM42 said:

 

 

I find it strange too that if they do have lights then they have to be the smallest possible (especially at the back)

 

I much prefer a big red lamp to a single 0.5 mm LED.

 

 

But bigger lights run the batteries down quicker - in the best Mrs Richards voice!

 

Yes I know LED's make the batteries last far longer, but that doesn't stop the Mrs Richards, of this world. Their own safety has cost that their not prepared to pay.

[ejstubbs]

On 07/12/2019 at 13:14, Nick C said:

people don't put their lights on in those low light conditions, presumably because they have DRLs, and so think they don't need to.

 

I'm not sure that the kind of person who does this goes to the bother of applying any sort of logic or rationale to it.  I strongly suspect that one of the prime reasons is simple laziness.

 

However, I do also think that modern car instrument panels may be a contributory factor.  When I were a lad (and even more recently then that) the instrument panel typically wasn't illuminated if the lights weren't on.  If you were driving around in low light conditions, not being able to see your speedo was quite a good reminder that it was time to turn your lights on.  Most modern instrument panels seem to be permanently illuminated, removing that obvious prompt.  I'd guess that this is partly because of the tendency to recess instruments much deeper in the binnacle these days, for whatever reason (maybe against glare?), so they'd be difficult to see even in broad daylight if not illuminated.  And even more modern, swanky trick stuff like 'soft' configurable LCD instrument panels have to be illuminated to work at all.

 

My current car doesn't offer any indication of the state of the headlights on the instrument panel, unless they're on full beam.  This can be inconvenient, particularly at this time of year.  My previous car - an earlier version of the same model - did have a headlight icon on the instrument panel which lit up when the headlights were on low beam, but for some reason they removed that from the facelift version (rumours abound about penny-pinching but I have to think that a bulb that costs a few pence would be taking things a bit far - I lean towards incompetence rather than greed/malice as an explanation).  I think there is a light to show when the sidelights are on, which IIRC is helpfully integrated within the headlight/foglight switch.  That is situated somewhere in the region of the driver's right knee and therefore not exactly easy to check visually, although fairly straightforward to check by feel.  But if you find yourself looking at the switch to check the state of the lights anyway, having a wee light on the switch isn't much of an additional aid.  (The car does at least have reminder lights on the instrument panel for the front and rear fog lights.  I have a feeling that these are obligatory, though observation suggests that many drivers haven't a clue what they actually mean.)

[SM42]

10 hours ago, Reorte said:

 

IMO that's an improvement, if the streetlighting is only lighting what it's there for (the street).

 

Unfortunately for my neighbour, 2 doors down on the opposite side, at the end of the cul-de -sac, the street outside their house is now in total darkness.  In fact, at night, I can only see their house if they have their lights on. 

 

The rest of the lights round here are due to be done soon, so SM42 towers will drop into the gloom soon too. I'll need to get myself an outside light so I can find my way to the car.

 

Makes neighbourhood watch  harder. Still I suppose a burglar can't see either. 

 

Andy

[TheQ]

10 hours ago, royaloak said:

Street lights are slightly more than 40ft apart so what is lighting the street between the 20ft pools of light?

In many areas it's 100ft and the legal definition of street lit is 200yards ( for the purposes of speed limits and what lighting you must have switched on your car) ..

[Enterprisingwestern]

12 hours ago, ejstubbs said:

 

for some reason they removed that from the facelift version (rumours abound about penny-pinching but I have to think that a bulb that costs a few pence would be taking things a bit far - I lean towards incompetence rather than greed/malice as an explanation).  

 

Multiply that bulb and associated circuitry that is no longer required by the number of cars produced and it will not be pennies that are saved, the motor company and it's accountants will make sure of that.

ISTR Ford doing something similar with light bulbs/lens colours many years ago, and it saved an eye watering amount of money.

 

Mike.

[Gwiwer]

Driving standards on the doorstep.  Almost literally.  I watched a beauty yesterday and held my breath at one point.

 

Car drives onto our local level crossing as the yellow warning light comes on; car STOPS astride both the railway tracks in response to having seen the light.  The barriers start to fall but their movement is abruptly stopped; this would be manual intervention by the bobby at Feltham watching the CCTV as the crossing was activated.

 

I have not always been thankful for the picket lines associated with industrial action but yesterday there was one at the depot gate right by the crossing meaning all could see what was taking place.  And all of us are railwaymen with safety our priority.  

 

There were shouts of "Get off the crossing" to which there was a reply "But the light is red .........I have to stop "  Which of course it now was though the driver would only have seen it in her rear-vision mirror until turning her head.

 

After repeated shouts from the picket line the poor woman managed to compose herself enough to drive on.  And was never seen again.  But the CCTV will have a capture of her number plate ..... 

[Reorte]

Really don't know what to say to that, both on the front of lack of knowledge and sheer lack of thinking of anything further beyond "these are what the rules say" when not even knowing them properly or understanding them at all.

[alastairq]

Often can be seen at traffic light-controlled junctions? Especially when the STOP line is set further back form the actual junction itself [to allow long/large vehicles to make the turn]...

 

If traffic is proceeding slowly, one often sees a driver...on seeing the solitary amber[or red] light of the repeater traffic light, then stops, thinking they are being 'ever so safe' stopping clear of the actual junction. Often quite a distance past the actual 'stop' line....and much to the annoyance of a large vehicle driver who swings around the corner to be confronted by a stationary car...thus cannot complete the manoeuver. Often these junctions have views obstructed by buildings.....so a lorry driver cannot see 'into' the road they are turning in.

 

Of course, once past the stop line [on a green light] one is technically 'not under the control' of that traffic light.....[unless at a filter]....and can continue [if safe, as always].....but folk panic, and re-invent the road traffic act to suit.

Getting them to get out of the way is a nightmare.

Most often [in my experience] a middle aged to elderly driver , too.

About time a CPC-type assessment was mandatory to all drivers over the age of 40!

[Nick C]

44 minutes ago, alastairq said:

Often can be seen at traffic light-controlled junctions? Especially when the STOP line is set further back form the actual junction itself [to allow long/large vehicles to make the turn]...

 

If traffic is proceeding slowly, one often sees a driver...on seeing the solitary amber[or red] light of the repeater traffic light, then stops, thinking they are being 'ever so safe' stopping clear of the actual junction. Often quite a distance past the actual 'stop' line....and much to the annoyance of a large vehicle driver who swings around the corner to be confronted by a stationary car...thus cannot complete the manoeuver. Often these junctions have views obstructed by buildings.....so a lorry driver cannot see 'into' the road they are turning in.

 

Of course, once past the stop line [on a green light] one is technically 'not under the control' of that traffic light.....[unless at a filter]....and can continue [if safe, as always].....but folk panic, and re-invent the road traffic act to suit.

Getting them to get out of the way is a nightmare.

Most often [in my experience] a middle aged to elderly driver , too.

About time a CPC-type assessment was mandatory to all drivers over the age of 40!

 

I've seen a few stop at the repeater lights - on the exit to the junction.

[Reorte]

3 minutes ago, Nick C said:

 

I've seen a few stop at the repeater lights - on the exit to the junction.

Saw one last night, sailed straight across the stop line (through the red) and stopped by the repeater on the other side of the junction (it was wet and dark so hard to tell exactly but I think he was at least clear of the box).

 

Talking of repeater lights I prefer the French version, where they have a set of miniature lights on the same post as the main one but closer to eye level.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Reorte

[Gwiwer]

6 hours ago, Reorte said:

Really don't know what to say to that, both on the front of lack of knowledge and sheer lack of thinking of anything further beyond "these are what the rules say" when not even knowing them properly or understanding them at all.

Reaction time left something to be desired too. 
 

If you see the yellow and can safely stop then do so. If you are so close that you cannot safely stop there is enough time to clear the far barrier before they descend even though the reds will be flashing by then. 
 

If you cross the line with no light showing it will make no difference if the yellow comes up a moment later because you still have time to get clear. 
 

And if you drive through the reds you automatically qualify for a Darwin Award. 

[Titan]

5 hours ago, Reorte said:

Saw one last night, sailed straight across the stop line (through the red) and stopped by the repeater on the other side of the junction (it was wet and dark so hard to tell exactly but I think he was at least clear of the box).

 

Talking of repeater lights I prefer the French version, where they have a set of miniature lights on the same post as the main one but closer to eye level.

 

I also prefer the French system. They have no Traffic lights beyond the stop line. Not only does this encourage people to actually stop at the stop line, it also means you don't have to pass a repeater at red when you make a turn. So the rule is simple, if you see a red light you have to stop.  I often suspect that some that make the above mistake are foreign and just applying the rules as they are in their country.

[johnofwessex]

Its worth pointing out that when the Dutch improved & extended their cycle network in the 70's they also rebuilt every road junction to standard designs, unlike the UK where with even new junctions you are thinking 'Oh Dear what exactly have we here'  (Rephrase this in Stoke (Merchant Navy) Speak for what was actually said)

[royaloak]

9 hours ago, alastairq said:

 

About time a CPC-type assessment was mandatory to all drivers over the age of 40!

Because everyone under 40 is such a fantastic driver arent they! 

Edited December 12, 2019 by royaloak

[alastairq]

5 hours ago, royaloak said:

Because everyone under 40 is such a fantastic driver arent they! 

Everyone under 40 is still a learner, really. 

( I was being charitable, sorry)

[stewartingram]

Got involved in a good one in March town centre this morning.

For those that don't know, the centre of March is in effect a short dual carriageway (or rather 2x one-way streets) with parking bays in the middle. The North end is a traffic light controlled T-junction, here the left turn is a normal 2 way street. The shops on the left/West side, also have a 2 way narrow street behind the, starting at the beginning of the "dual" road, and ending at the North end in another T junction to the 2 way road mentioned earlier (except that it is not rally a T, as it is clearly marked as No Right Turn

So I'm in this slow moving northbound queue, coss the river and come to the dual section, to find it coned off by the Police (no idea why but it happens. I follow the queue round the back of the shops on the narrow street - narrow, 2-way, with some parking bays, and usually a few vehicles parked behind the shops as well (deliveries etc), so I'm expecting a crawl through here. But at the end, most of the vehicles are blatantly turning right, when the traffic on the main stops to let them out!

The "ME" attitude again?

 

Stewart

[30801]

Saw this. Watch the kid.

 

 

[chris p bacon]

Doesn't play, I'm guessing it's a Facebook link.

 

[mezzoman253]

42 minutes ago, chris p bacon said:

Doesn't play, I'm guessing it's a Facebook link.

 

Played fine yesterday evening and again this morning, in latest Chrome  browser.

 

Is indeed a Facebook link.    

 

 

Rob

Edited December 13, 2019 by mezzoman253

[chris p bacon]

6 minutes ago, mezzoman253 said:

Played fine yesterday evening and again this morning, in latest Chrome  browser.

 

Is indeed a Facebook link.    

 

 

Rob

 I'm on Apple safari, I'm also not signed up to FB so I wonder if that is the reason, as they never play for me.

[farren]

On 10/12/2019 at 16:38, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

As already mentioned above, this is not a function specifically of LED as the light source, but that by design newly installed street lighting is directional to reduce so called 'light pollution', intended to solely illuminate the road surface. It is a lot less useful than the diffused output of traditional street lighting, as a down lighter isn't capable of effectively illuminating near vertical surfaces: such as are found commonly on pedestrians, cyclists, and many vehicles, which are the road users. Such objects have to be perceived as moving silhouettes in this lighting, and I feel that our vision system is of reduced effectiveness in this condition.

 

We don't complain about 'light pollution' when the big yellow thing is the source of daylight. This source provides a usefully diffused light, with which of course our visual apparatus works best.

I hate LED street lighting! I think it's worse then the old sodium lighting. The street lighting works so well that many cyclest don't need any lights to be seen and they don't until they hit a dark spot say under a bridge or near trees when they vanishe and become valuable to drivers who suddenly find themselves in the same dark spot.  

 

When driving your head lights make little difference on well lit roads that if a driver dose forget to put on the lights their likely to not notice any difference and drive quite happily making them a danger to other people out and about be it drivers or bikers like myself or anyone walking. 

 

And the last point is light pollution since Leicester has gone LED, it never gets fully dark anymore. The  Clouds glow. I can go into the back garden which is a 100 foot long with six trees in it and a allotment behind that with more trees and can walk round it quite safely and pick out plants and even flowers even now in winter.

 

Yes the LED'S cut light bleed so all the light gose downwards trouble is they create so much more light too that when it hits the ground even more then bounces upwards and lights up the sky.