Oxford Rail announces - OO gauge Mk3 coaches

[jjb1970]

I would like to try a ground breaking idea. I know this will seem a bit controversial with some people and as downright heresy with others, but:

 

LET US WAIT AND SEE. If they re reviewed and found to be poor then we don't buy. If they are reviewed and found to be good then we buy.

 

I know it is a far fetched concept, but don't forget who pioneered the idea.

Indeed, I'd go a step further and say if you like the final model then buy it regardless of reviews.

[Derekstuart]

I don't think 'rivet counters' are fundamentally bad people. Some are either trying to demonstrate to people (who probably don't care) that they know XYZ, a few will be just plain damned nasty, some will be those who really know the subject and are trying to help.

 

Some would say that the SLW 24 is the best (certainly one of them) loco released for British layouts, and even that had some criticisms from some people. So far I think only Rapido's APT-E has been devoid of criticism and that is because they asked the leading authority on it (Mr. Tilt) to advise, and no one else knows it well enough. Perhaps Realtrack's 143 is another one that didn't get any noticeable criticism- either because it was just right (possible) or because connoisseurs of trains still consider them to be buses on wagon chassis.

 

These MK3s look pretty good to me, though I will probably be more enthusiastic when/if the HST variant is released.

[MJI]

It is not Hornby Mk 3s which will be off loaded, but Jouef 3as

 

I have no intention of dumping my HST trailers, as they are shorter than real sets I dump the TGS (so avoiding Lima mix).

 

Mind you the PCs are the last year ringfield ones!!!!!!

 

But all match and look OK as they wizz along.

 

But looking at Jouef, add in new wheels, respray, laserglaze and such, may as well buy a few OR ones.

 

I have 5 of the Jouefs, to run with  a Lima 87 and a Lima 2F

 

Ebay will be full of Jouef soon.

[andyman7]

I'm looking forward to these because getting a really accurate late 1970s/early 80s WCML rake matter to me - I lived by the lineside during that period and absorbed a huge amount of detail, so for me I am pedantic when it comes to this particular theme. However, I also enjoy collecting and using trains of all eras and my son likes modern stuff, so amongst other models we have a Hornby Pendolino, Javelin, FGW HST etc and I have to say in those cases I'm a bit less bothered as long as they look right. Believe it or not, I'm sure Hornby will still sell plenty of Mk3s because a) they have wider distribution and brand penetration than Oxford and b) although less detailed their Mk3s will be more straightforward to use especially for younger hands than models with close-coupling cams and lots of separate detail. 

 

These coaches will fill a gap for those looking for accurate Mk3s correctly differentiated for eras and loco hauled/HST and I hope they are a success for Oxford, but I really don't understand some of the posts that almost imply glee that this will put x or y out of business, or the ones that start on about how if Oxford Rail can sell their Mk3s at £35 we are being ripped off by Bachmann or Hornby. The model railway business is tough and good profits are needed to see business survive, I'd like to stick to appraising and hopefully celebrating what Oxford Diecast are doing without denigrating other suppliers. 

Edited October 2, 2016 by andyman7

[steve1023]

I would like to try a ground breaking idea. I know this will seem a bit controversial with some people and as downright heresy with others, but:

LET US WAIT AND SEE. If they re reviewed and found to be poor then we don't buy. If they are reviewed and found to be good then we buy.

 

I know it is a far fetched concept, but don't forget who pioneered the idea.

It'll never catch on. I mean, what will happen to all the Internet forums........

[jjb1970]

 

Some would say that the SLW 24 is the best (certainly one of them) loco released for British layouts, and even that had some criticisms from some people. So far I think only Rapido's APT-E has been devoid of criticism and that is because they asked the leading authority on it (Mr. Tilt) to advise, and no one else knows it well

Even the APT-E is not perfect. The discontinuity on the nose where the nose moulding meets the rest of the body looks a lot worse in pictures than in the flesh but is nevertheless there. Also the coupling mechanism isn't great. Neither detracts from the fact that it is a terrific model. What is interesting is that in the case of the APT-E and SLW 24 people accepted the issues and were happy with the models (I can't remember complaining about my APT-E model) yet similar issues in models made by other companies can provoke a very different reaction.

[Wheatley]

Derekstuart, on 01 Oct 2016 - 20:49, said:

Some would say that the SLW 24 is the best (certainly one of them) loco released for British layouts, and even that had some criticisms from some people.

The SLW 24 wouldn't have got half as much stick (not just on here but on S4um) if one of its supporters hadn't been quite so vocal in insisting that it was The Best Thing Ever because he said so, and then trying to shout down anyone who disagreed. If you tell people they should accept something is perfect, they'll damn well find a part of it that isn't. It's like the kid at school who insists his dad has ten Harleys in the garage - open season. 

Edited October 2, 2016 by Wheatley

[Horsetan]

.... What is interesting is that in the case of the APT-E and SLW 24 people accepted the issues and were happy with the models (I can't remember complaining about my APT-E model) yet similar issues in models made by other companies can provoke a very different reaction.

Maybe people complain less when they pay (a lot) more for a model? Now there's a strategy Oxford might want to try in future!

[Vistisen]

It'll never catch on. I mean, what will happen to all the Internet forums........

I've never really thought about it before. But we can rewrite Gartner’s hype cycle (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hype_cycle) to a RMWEB hype cycle. Of course in true RMWeb style you can’t get by with just one cycle, We have two streams depending on one’s affinity to the various teams.

 

The positive cycle

 

Phase 1 Technology Trigger (also known as the froth stage):

XXXXXX is going to the best model ever. YYYYYY are certainly going to go bankrupt as a result of them still trying to push a 20 years old version of XXXXX on us. Often starts before the actual announcement.

Phase 2 Peak of Inflated Expectations

XXXXXX is going to be so good. I can’t wait. Better drop all plans to build the kit I have lying around for years.  Will it come with sound I do hope it does. It had better get here before Christmas. XXXXX is on the boat… I going to have to report in sick so that I can be home to catch it when the postman throws it out of the passing van

Phase 3 Trough of Disillusionment

Oh no it’s got a coreless motor which won’t run on my HM Clipper from the late 60’s. It’s too long to go round the curves! I thought that XXXXX was supposed to be better than YYYYY’s version!

Phase 4 Slope of Enlightenment

As long as I replace the wheels/chimney/ number etc. It will look OK on my OO gauge (Also knowns as the 4’1” gauge). If I use a controller from this century it runs, without there coming smoke out of the wrong holes.

 Phase 5 Plateau of Productivity

 I do hope that they will make the carriages that were used on the particular branch line I model. Saw it running down the club I’m going to have to get four of these.

 

Of course if it is the wrong manufacturer then you have to go through...

 

the negative cycle

Phase 1 Technology Trigger (also known as the foaming stage):

 XXXXXX is going to be a total waste of time because it did not run on my line I 1922. XXXXXX is only being announced because YYYYYY announced their intention of making one four years in the future.

Phase 2 Peak of Deflated Expectations:

 From the badly distorted picture of the first 3d Printed sample I can clearly see that they use square headed bolts on number 123456. Everybody knows the number 123456 had hexagonal bolts in 1954 the square one were not fitted before 1955. The colour on the first painted sample looks all wrong. I remember that the original (now 70+ Years old) and have an old black and white Photo to prove it, That pantone shade is definitely at least 1/3 for a shade for blue it should be somewhere between two of the 20+million pantone shades. After all, an Iphone picture taken through a glass cabinet under bad lightning at the local show never lies.

 

Phase 3 Height of ‘I told you so’

Chinese new year catches XXXXX out again. It’s going to be put back a year, or they’ll go bankrupt first. The boat will hopefully sink to prevent this travesty of a model from ever arriving. The price will go up I know it will.

Phase4 Slope of Eating one’s own hat

Model railway magazines reviews never really tell the truth. Of course, the real thing never pulled more than two coaches so the fact that the model can pull 8 is OK. Why did XXXXX make so few of this model it’s sold out everywhere XXXXX will go bankrupt if they don’t produce enough of these things.

Phase 5 Plateau of Productivity

I do hope that YYYYY will make the carriages that were used on the particular branch line I model. Saw it running down the club I wish I’d bought four of these, but XXXXX did not make enough of them.

Edited October 2, 2016 by Vistiaen

[No Decorum]

Maybe people complain less when they pay (a lot) more for a model? Now there's a strategy Oxford might want to try in future!

I had made up my mind that whatever Rapido was going to produce for the NRM, it wouldn’t be the APT-E because to produce a complete train to Rapido’s standard would make it far too expensive. I was astonished to find that it was to be the APT-E and even more astonished to learn how cheap it was going to be. I wasn’t alone in this – even Mr. York had guessed a much higher price.

 

Yes, it cost a lot but it was extremely cheap considering what it was and what went into it.

[jjb1970]

In relative terms I considered the APT-E to be an out and out bargain. OK, to a normal person £200+ for a toy train probably seems bonkers, but if you look at the price of the (admittedly wonderful) Blue Pullman or the forthcoming SWT Class 450 the APT-E looks exceptional value for money.

[Steamport Southport]

Does anyone here ever buy actual toys?

 

I can assure you that model railway prices are an absolute bargain compared to what you have to pay for a bit of misshapen plastic or the latest gadget. A simple box of LEGO can set you back a few hundred pounds.

 

 

 

Jason

[jjb1970]

Maybe people complain less when they pay (a lot) more for a model? Now there's a strategy Oxford might want to try in future!

Many a true thing said in jest and all that....I always feel the main appeal to some of designer clothing, expensive watches etc is precisely because the price means it is beyond the reach of the lower orders (unless they sell a kidney or something).

Edited October 2, 2016 by jjb1970

[UP 4000]

Does anyone here ever buy actual toys?

 

I can assure you that model railway prices are an absolute bargain compared to what you have to pay for a bit of misshapen plastic or the latest gadget. A simple box of LEGO can set you back a few hundred pounds.

 

 

 

Jason

 

Yes,

 

I have 2 APT-E's, one's a big burgger, and a large collection of Trix/Marklin Big Boy's, Highly detailed and very expensive, But they are my toy trains. I do love to run them when I get the chance, which is what a toy is, fun and enjoyment.

[Horsetan]

Many a true thing said in jest and all that....I always feel the main appeal to some of designer clothing, expensive watches etc is precisely because the price means it is beyond the reach of the lower orders (unless they sell a kidney or something).

Even though it costs pennies to make at sweatshop rates.

[VXDH92]

I spoke to Oxford the other day to query if they were going to tint the windows, as the EPs have clear glazing. They said 'they will probably have a light tinting - but not too much, as the tint in real life depends on the natural light. We are also playing with some possible interior lighting for them'. This sounds quite interesting. I pointed out the Hornby MK2Es seem to have pretty accurate tint, and may be worth trying to emulate.

[BR(S)]

Many a true thing said in jest and all that....I always feel the main appeal to some of designer clothing, expensive watches etc is precisely because the price means it is beyond the reach of the lower orders (unless they sell a kidney or something).

 

Positional/Veblen Goods: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/positional-goods.asp

Edited October 4, 2016 by BR(S)

[JSpencer]

I spoke to Oxford the other day to query if they were going to tint the windows, as the EPs have clear glazing. They said 'they will probably have a light tinting - but not too much, as the tint in real life depends on the natural light. We are also playing with some possible interior lighting for them'. This sounds quite interesting. I pointed out the Hornby MK2Es seem to have pretty accurate tint, and may be worth trying to emulate.

 

The Mk2Es also have a pretty good lighting unit except that it misses the coach ends. With brightness being just right and constant.

 

Of course lighting means easy access to add passengers. Take a look at Rapido LRC coaches to see what ease of access means in a lit coach (here is also a very good example of the standard we would expect for the new Mk3).

[VXDH92]

The Mk2Es also have a pretty good lighting unit except that it misses the coach ends. With brightness being just right and constant.

 

Of course lighting means easy access to add passengers. Take a look at Rapido LRC coaches to see what ease of access means in a lit coach (here is also a very good example of the standard we would expect for the new Mk3).

 

I was really referring to the pretty accurate window tint on the Hornby MK2Es... I agree, the lighting strip could be better.

[slg]

No idea yet what livery there going to be but the A1 trust have just announced they're putting together a MK3 set for Tornado to pull from 2019

[Nile_Griffith]

No idea yet what livery there going to be but the A1 trust have just announced they're putting together a MK3 set for Tornado to pull from 2019

How are all those kettle nutters going to stick their heads out the window then??????? Edited October 5, 2016 by Nile_Griffith

[phil-b259]

How are all those kettle nutters going to stick their heads out the window then???????

 

To be fair if the A1 group can pull it off then there is no excuse for other charter operators following suit.

 

The proposed spec includes:-

 

The yet-to-be named new train will set new standards in a railtour market long dominated by difficult to maintain 60 years or older vehicles. As with all modern trains, it will be equipped with air conditioning, central door locking, controlled emission toilets, power at seat and persons with restricted mobility facilities. The passenger vehicles will also all be fitted with opening windows so those travelling can still experience the sound of Tornado working hard more clearly should they wish to do so and consideration is being given to equipping them with Wi-Fi. Although the final formation of the train is yet to be determined, it will include kitchen car(s) to enable high quality meals to be delivered to 250 First Class Dining passengers, a new support coach which will provide accommodation for the support crew and the locomotive’s day-to-day spares and consumables and a service vehicle with generator and staff accommodation. The train will also carry sufficient additional water to extend Tornado’s range to around 200 miles. The refurbished train is expected to enter service towards the end of 2019.

[Wheatley]

Hopper windows then. You can hear, but you can't stick your head out.

[Revolution Mike]

Or drop windows in the vestibules (as Mk3s already have them).  Would they really go to the lengths of putting new windows of a new design in a Mk 3? Would it even be allowed - I don't know if the safety glass is an integral design or not?

[Nile_Griffith]

To be fair if the A1 group can pull it off then there is no excuse for other charter operators following suit.

 

The proposed spec includes:-

 

The yet-to-be named new train will set new standards in a railtour market long dominated by difficult to maintain 60 years or older vehicles. As with all modern trains, it will be equipped with air conditioning, central door locking, controlled emission toilets, power at seat and persons with restricted mobility facilities. The passenger vehicles will also all be fitted with opening windows so those travelling can still experience the sound of Tornado working hard more clearly should they wish to do so and consideration is being given to equipping them with Wi-Fi. Although the final formation of the train is yet to be determined, it will include kitchen car(s) to enable high quality meals to be delivered to 250 First Class Dining passengers, a new support coach which will provide accommodation for the support crew and the locomotive’s day-to-day spares and consumables and a service vehicle with generator and staff accommodation. The train will also carry sufficient additional water to extend Tornado’s range to around 200 miles. The refurbished train is expected to enter service towards the end of 2019.

 

Is Tornado capable of pulling that much train? With 250 first class diners, even spread over four sittings that's still sixty three bays of four required per sitting (thereabouts). Add that to kitchen and preparation space that has to be three dining cars minimum. Then of course those passengers need to go back to their first class accommodations (another two cars). Then of course there would be standard class passengers plus their catering requirements (assuming both classes are catered for on the planned tours). Plus all these wonderful generator/crew coaches (going to need quite a bit of power for all those passengers). Spares and water (more electrical power for pumping). Is Tornado up to it?

 

Just curious as not really a steam enthusiast.