Oxford Rail announces - OO gauge Mk3 coaches

[sub39h]

I could do with a some suitable WCML kitchen / Buffet cars plus a swallow HST set. The Hornby MK3 DVT is a good model but only suitable for post Virgin operations so an as built version would be a nice addition to match the coaches.

Slightly off topic I know so I apologise, but excepting the front valance (which I believe is available as a resin part on eBay) what other differences are there?

[298]

Slightly off topic I know so I apologise, but excepting the front valance (which I believe is available as a resin part on eBay) what other differences are there?

Drawbar fittings (buffers, Pullman rubbing plates and buckeye coupling) changed along with the original horn grille to the stainless steel V type, controller changes to work with class 67 & 68, and Chiltern and NR types have a grill fitted in one of the luggage doors for a generator, with the associated tank and filler cap on the underframe.

[steve fay]

There we go beat me to it!! Hurst do the skirt as a rein part but I'm not sure if you can get it separately. The V grill would need to be rubbed down and an etch replacement fitted.

The Hornby DVT is a nice model but they've done a one size fits all approach which isn't really good enough considering what other manufacturers do.

[newbryford]

, and Chiltern and NR types have a grill fitted in one of the luggage doors for a generator, with the associated tank and filler cap on the underframe.

 

And the grille is different between the Chiltern and NwR versions.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[scottrains29]

This is a great announcement!

Hornby STILL haven't produced a matching rake of the very popular Virgin HST coaches (they messed up the TGS livery)

The GNER coaches haven't been produced for a while and are like hens teeth on ebay.

If these new coaches are done to a good standard and at a reasonable price I'll certainly be buying many!

[ruggedpeak]

There is clearly an opportunity for Oxford to do Mk3's well, but realistically I doubt they are going to produce the huge range of variants that exist, or if they do it would be over a very long time due to practical constraints.

 

A full and accurate set of coaches to sit behind Dapol's 68 would be a great starting point. I have various Hornby 67's and DVT sets (WSMR, ATW etc) and really like these loco hauled sets. 68 versions I'd buy full sets.

 

Also early Scotrail liveried pushpull MK3's please.

[Roddy Angus]

The Scotrail pushpull Mk3s (at least for Waverley/Queen Street should be relatively simple as only the SO and FO are needed (I think).  I've suggested this to Oxford as something to fit between Bachmann's Class 47/7 and DBSO is needed.

 

Roddy

[Legend]

The Scotrail pushpull Mk3s (at least for Waverley/Queen Street should be relatively simple as only the SO and FO are needed (I think).  I've suggested this to Oxford as something to fit between Bachmann's Class 47/7 and DBSO is needed.

 

Roddy

In later days there were composites as well. I think by converting the firsts . Probably you would just need a new seat insert as I don't think they were any external changes. In fact I could live without that , just have the yellow first strip applied half way down coach. I won't be peering in my Mk 3 windows

 

Excited by this as I think you are right , this is the best chance of getting Scotrail mk3s . I'll have a go at converting a mk2 break or maybe pick up a second hand conversion when the Bachmann one comes out , as I'm sure the price will be prohibitive based on the Autocoach

[Mike at C&M]

The ScotRail Mark 3s are covered in great length in the following thread:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/69564-cm-models-commission-scotrail-mark-3s/

 

I know that Oxford are not going to flood the market with every possible livery of Mark 3 going, at the same time. They will start with the most popular versions.

 

My hope is that by taking care in the design stage, they are then able to allow for the detail differences from down the years which have been omitted from previous runs of Mark3, by various manufacturers, e.g: Roof details, door closed warning lights, correct style of doors, window arrangements on catering vehicles etc.

[Glorious NSE]

I struggle to believe any manufacturer out there can cope with the challenge of researching and tooling all, or even most.......I'd even go so far as to say I doubt you'll get enough variation to produce an accurate everyday rake for any current TOC.

If you want a quick-ish example - I've had a quick look through my shots of HST TS/TS(D) cars (42xxx) ONLY - in those I count no less than eleven different arrangements of windows on car sides, and I'm not going to dare to suggest that's the limit of the variation. 

And that doesn't include that there's cars ex other HST types that may have differences, cars ex LHCS which may have LHCS features, interior differences, that on conversion where toilets have been moved/removed the roof may have been altered also....or may not....and so on....or get into catering vehicle variations and conversions...

Okay some of those variants can just be avoided by doing some serious research before picking the set to model, but sooner or later you will get to a bespoke bit of tooling that only fits (for example) a FGW TS(D), or whatever, and which can't really be skipped if you're going to try and present it as modelling a whole train.
 

[scottrains29]

I really hope Oxford will produce a full length flexible corridor connection for these Mk3s. The Hornby Mk3s look toy-like with their huge gap between coaches, their mk2s are even worse. The connection could be made of thin flexible rubber or silicone (like the type used for the cake cases etc often seen in poundshops) with a thin bar magnet either side to attach to each coach. This way coaches can easily be uncoupled. The connections can also be removed altogether if using tight radius curves. It would also allow for the possibility of through wiring for lighting etc. I know some people make paper ones but these look a bit naff to me. A proper corridor connection that removes all daylight between coaches would certainly give them a huge advantage over the current Hornby ones.

[No Decorum]

A huge advantage over any RTR coach, I would have thought. Such an arrangement would be quite an improvement.

[Nile_Griffith]

I'm guessing that someone from Oxford Rail is keeping an eye on this thread............ and fool to them if they don't.

 

But here is a bit of a "out of the box" or maybe I should say in these circles "out of the signal box" notion.

 

Would it be possible to design and manufacture a range of Mk3 coaches that have mix and match sides? The thought is that you buy a standard chassis, bogie set and interior, then choose your sides and roof. I know that there are certain undeframe and bogie variances also, but most of the concern seams to be around coach sides and roofs, but a manufacturer could make the optional sides and roofs available in whatever pre-painted versions they thought best for them and their financial needs, but also make a plain version for modellers who are happy to apply their own paint. As I understand it, a noticeable portion of the manufacturing cost is in paying for those nimble little fingers to put it all together. I wouldn't like to estimate how much of a saving there would be in just "Bagging up" a kit of parts in order to offset the additional design, tooling and manufacturing cost, but as said it is an out of the box thought. A manufacturer is still able to sell on a completed model for those collectors and modellers who aren't interested in either assembly or prototypical concerns ............ As said it's just a notion.

 

(The bit I forgot to add)  I am very aware however, that the number of modellers looking for adherence to such detail possibly makes up a relatively small portion of the customer base for these models as a whole. God knows I have banged on about this fact in other threads often enough before. But wondering that if with the popularity of these carriages and the multiplicity of options, whether am manufacturer might see enough benefit in it to make the leap????

 

Right with that i shall get me coat and retire to the back of the room.

Edited February 4, 2016 by Nile_Griffith

[Wolf27]

Bit like Triang did in the 60's with their CKD range.

 

Cheers

 

Shane

[Nile_Griffith]

Bit like Triang did in the 60's with their CKD range.

 

Cheers

 

Shane

 

Thats me!!!  Ideas and brainwaves well behind the times. Thanks for that heads up Shane!!

[JSpencer]

I'm guessing that someone from Oxford Rail is keeping an eye on this thread............ and fool to them if they don't.

 

But here is a bit of a "out of the box" or maybe I should say in these circles "out of the signal box" notion.

 

Would it be possible to design and manufacture a range of Mk3 coaches that have mix and match sides? The thought is that you buy a standard chassis, bogie set and interior, then choose your sides and roof. I know that there are certain undeframe and bogie variances also, but most of the concern seams to be around coach sides and roofs, but a manufacturer could make the optional sides and roofs available in whatever pre-painted versions they thought best for them and their financial needs, but also make a plain version for modellers who are happy to apply their own paint. As I understand it, a noticeable portion of the manufacturing cost is in paying for those nimble little fingers to put it all together. I wouldn't like to estimate how much of a saving there would be in just "Bagging up" a kit of parts in order to offset the additional design, tooling and manufacturing cost, but as said it is an out of the box thought. A manufacturer is still able to sell on a completed model for those collectors and modellers who aren't interested in either assembly or prototypical concerns ............ As said it's just a notion.

 

(The bit I forgot to add)  I am very aware however, that the number of modellers looking for adherence to such detail possibly makes up a relatively small portion of the customer base for these models as a whole. God knows I have banged on about this fact in other threads often enough before. But wondering that if with the popularity of these carriages and the multiplicity of options, whether am manufacturer might see enough benefit in it to make the leap????

 

Right with that i shall get me coat and retire to the back of the room.

Dapol already sell some of their coaches as a bag of bits. The price difference is not much.

[MJI]

Where to start

 

Not HST I feel as the Hornby trailers do normally match their power cars, and the scale length ones are OK.

 

I would want all the same colour power cars and trailers, same blue and same shade of grey.

 

I did buy train pack and same year release trailers, but dropped TGS for length and Lima reasons.

 

So where is a good place to start?

 

Loco Hauled Coaching Stock

 

Mk 3a

 

TSO FO RUB to start with for WCML and Edinburgh Glasgow sets

Then of course the BFO and Sleeper.

 

Currently we have to search for old Joueff models.

 

5 coaches, 3 starting liveries, easy start.

 

Again with HST, unless they do power cars as well, they will need to accurately match Hornby

[Glorious NSE]

Lots of liveries for a Mk3a TSO/FO body.

Not so I suspect for the RUB? - only blue/grey and maybe Intercity (as an RFB?) - am I right in thinking they were all converted to RFMs (which included window changes) by Intercity - RFM's are a minefield all of their own...

BFO's I'd have said would be an unlikely choice (due to there only ever having been three) - unless you're thinking they would be selling accurate train packs for the GW sleeper service - in which case you'll also need to model one of the RFMs from that fleet.


 

[newbryford]

 

BFO's I'd have said would be an unlikely choice (due to there only ever having been three) - unless you're thinking they would be selling accurate train packs for the GW sleeper service - in which case you'll also need to model one of the RFMs from that fleet.

The BFOs were originally delivered in Inter City livery for use on the Manchester Pullman.

 

As a slight aside, there's a previous thread about Mk3s here.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Glorious NSE]

Yes I realise that was at least their previous 'famous" use, and I guess that would give another "theme" train pack if a seller wanted?

But presumably they were only really "useful" in that regard for a small period (3 or 4-ish years?) between them being built and the DVTs coming on stream, after which they would have been something of a pointless anachronism in the WCML fleet under Intercity and latterly Virgin - effectively an FO with fewer seats and an alternative guard's seat...

[James90012]

I think it would be worth emailing to request that they liaise delivery of these MK3s with the other manufacturers. I don't mean structuring their yearly strategies around each other just informing of intentions, hoping that the other parts of the set are released.

[scottrains29]

I wouldn't be surprised if Oxford Rail announce a class 43, and/or an electric loco. After all no point having HST mk3s without anything to pull them! Didn't Oxford say they weren't just going to release random items but have a well thought out range. They have been watching the model rail sector for a number of years apparently. When Hornby first released their class 43 in the late 70's it was followed shortly after by the superior Lima class 43. The two models co-existed for many years with high sales between them. For such an iconic train it is unusual to only have one manufacturer producing it today, c.f. Mallard A4, Tornado A1, 37, 47 etc. Although the Hornby model is good I'm sure it could be improved upon (no model is ever 100%) plus I think the market could easily sustain a second class 43 model. Some of Hornby's more recent release HSTs are starting to become quite rare and in high demand, plus there are still plenty more liveries to cover.

[298]

Yes I realise that was at least their previous 'famous" use, and I guess that would give another "theme" train pack if a seller wanted?

But presumably they were only really "useful" in that regard for a small period (3 or 4-ish years?) between them being built and the DVTs coming on stream, after which they would have been something of a pointless anachronism in the WCML fleet under Intercity and latterly Virgin - effectively an FO with fewer seats and an alternative guard's seat...

The BFOs on the WCML were something of a rareity, but quite easy to spot due to their unique pillar arrangement (assuming I wasn't looking at what was on the other end of the train.

 

I'm sure they'd be of more use for those modelling GW Sleeper workings, if Oxford were to model the Caley Sleepers they'd also need Mk2 types that aren't available.

[298]

I wouldn't be surprised if Oxford Rail announce a class 43, and/or an electric loco. After all no point having HST mk3s without anything to pull them! Didn't Oxford say they weren't just going to release random items but have a well thought out range. They have been watching the model rail sector for a number of years apparently. When Hornby first released their class 43 in the late 70's it was followed shortly after by the superior Lima class 43. The two models co-existed for many years with high sales between them. For such an iconic train it is unusual to only have one manufacturer producing it today, c.f. Mallard A4, Tornado A1, 37, 47 etc. Although the Hornby model is good I'm sure it could be improved upon (no model is ever 100%) plus I think the market could easily sustain a second class 43 model. Some of Hornby's more recent release HSTs are starting to become quite rare and in high demand, plus there are still plenty more liveries to cover.

I doubt you could create a market for those wishing to ditch their Hornby Power Cars for something better (apart from a few awkward livery mistakes), but the Hornby items are often perceived as being expensive and there might be a market for something to a ViTrains standard and at a price comparable to a 2-car DMU for a powered & dummy pair.

[Revolution Ben]

 A manufacturer is still able to sell on a completed model for those collectors and modellers who aren't interested in either assembly or prototypical concerns ............ As said it's just a notion.

 

Hi there,

 

If (as I understand it) you're saying the manufacturer would still be producing complete RTR coaches in any event, then producing the unpainted, or half-painted, bagged up kits as you suggest adds a new production process and requires different packaging. For the relatively small numbers involved the unit costs of these kits would probably work out at least as much as the RTR, if not more.

 

Undecorated models are offered in the US by most manufacturers, but usually for the same price as the decorated versions, since the cost differential spread over an entire production is so marginal.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.