Hornby 2022 - Trains on Film

[eldomtom2]

Well, it wouldn't say anything actually about the law, since anyone can threaten to take legal action regardless of whether or not the law is actually on their side. The most interesting conversations were probably between Hornby and their lawyers.

[mdvle]

To a certain extend any interactions between Hornby and Studio Canal are a sideshow at this point.

 

The more interesting thing is whether there are any personnel changes at Hornby in the next 6 to 12 months as a result of this, because that will be far more informative as to the type of company Hornby will be going forward.

[The Stationmaster]

2 hours ago, Markwj said:

So when is the next show Hornby will be attending - Scotrail?? Will someone politely ask on the stand what has happened to put us out of our misery?

I thought they'd stopped attending shows because of Covid (or was it something to do with budgets as well)?

 

30 minutes ago, mdvle said:

To a certain extend any interactions between Hornby and Studio Canal are a sideshow at this point.

 

The more interesting thing is whether there are any personnel changes at Hornby in the next 6 to 12 months as a result of this, because that will be far more informative as to the type of company Hornby will be going forward.

Something in that maybe although it might well turn out to be more difficult to attribute any changes to anything to do with TItgate if financial performance for 2021/2022 doesn't come up to scratch and entitlements under the Long Term Incentive Plan (LTIP) for various directors do not deliver the number of shares they might have hoped to be able to buy at  an exercise price of 1p per share.   Even at current trading price of 44p  an individual option to purchase over 2 million Hornby shares for much less than that provided that the maximum operating profit hurdle is reached would certainly concentrate minds if that hurdle isn't reached for any particular reason.    (All a matter of readily accessible information in the public domain - on Hornby's website in this instance - as it has to be for a publicly quoted company.)

 

But Titgate would probably have only a minimal impact, if any at all, on operating profit in the 2021/2022 accounts - which will be the relevant the operating profit figure for the LTIP.  However if the numbers fall short then people might be looking for other reasons to make personnel changes or effect operating cost economies - so don't read Titgate as necessarily being the trigger for  entries in the situations vacant column.

[Classsix T]

23 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

I thought they'd stopped attending shows because of Covid (or was it something to do with budgets as well)?

 

Something in that maybe although it might well turn out to be more difficult to attribute any changes to anything to do with TItgate if financial performance for 2021/2022 doesn't come up to scratch and entitlements under the Long Term Incentive Plan (LTIP) for various directors do not deliver the number of shares they might have hoped to be able to buy at  an exercise price of 1p per share.   Even at current trading price of 44p  an individual option to purchase over 2 million Hornby shares for much less than that provided that the maximum operating profit hurdle is reached would certainly concentrate minds if that hurdle isn't reached for any particular reason.    (All a matter of readily accessible information in the public domain - on Hornby's website in this instance - as it has to be for a publicly quoted company.)

 

But Titgate would probably have only a minimal impact, if any at all, on operating profit in the 2021/2022 accounts - which will be the relevant the operating profit figure for the LTIP.  However if the numbers fall short then people might be looking for other reasons to make personnel changes or effect operating cost economies - so don't read Titgate as necessarily being the trigger for  entries in the situations vacant column.

Spoilsport Mike, I wanna see punches thrown and teeth lost in the next report. Anything less will be hyperbole!

 

C6T. 

[wombatofludham]

I doubt we will ever know the background, even if Yesterday are still filming.  These sort of corporate handbaggings tend to be kept very quiet.  

In the meantime, if Simon Kohler keeps his job, I do hope that they either give him some presentation training or get someone else more professional in to do the next launch video.  Putting to one side Titgate, the launch should have been a positive rebuttal of people like me who have been accusing them of being kettle-centric but when he went off script to say that "steam is more charismatic than diesels" he successfully snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.  I've done media training and live TV and radio interviews and Rule 1 is stick to your message, don't riff or introduce personal observations.  Claiming steam is more charismatic was a subjective personal observation that had no place in the video launch and only served to re-enforce the view that they are being dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st Century.

Personally I will still be thinking twice about buying any Hornby as they are still treating their retailers like Putin treats diplomacy, so even if Titgate has been secretly sorted, unless there is positive movement on the Wall of Tiers I'll give them a swerve.

[MrTea]

I’d be interested to know if anyone who has contributed to this thread has ‘skin in the game’ so to speak? Or are we just watching from the sidelines and speculating?
(Which is absolutely fine as far as I’m concerned BTW). 
 

I contemplated ordering one of the Hornby ‘Inspired by’ packs when I realised I could pre-order without paying there and then (I even read the T&Cs on Hornby.com!), basically just to see what happened - I had no intention of actually buying one, if and when they got released. At least if I had I would have been able to share any comms regarding my order with those interested. 
 

As it is, I remain intrigued by this whole episode, but I probably ought to go and do some proper modelling!

[Titan]

52 minutes ago, MrTea said:

I’d be interested to know if anyone who has contributed to this thread has ‘skin in the game’ so to speak? Or are we just watching from the sidelines and speculating?
(Which is absolutely fine as far as I’m concerned BTW). 

 

Don't these guys who posted as recently as the previous page count?

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/169436-Hornby-2022-trains-on-film/&do=findComment&comment=4747304

Edited February 18, 2022 by Titan

[Phil Parker]

1 hour ago, MrTea said:

I’d be interested to know if anyone who has contributed to this thread has ‘skin in the game’ so to speak? Or are we just watching from the sidelines and speculating?
(Which is absolutely fine as far as I’m concerned BTW). 

 

Realistically, the numbers will be in low single figures, and they don't need to read the thread to know what's going on.

 

For everyone else, it's popcorn time, just like watching a fight in a pub car park. That's why the mods are sitting on this thread to wind down the hyperbole and abuse a few notches. Very few people will ever know the full details. If you need to know, you know. If you don't know, you don't need to - no matter how much you might want to.

[The Stationmaster]

8 hours ago, wombatofludham said:

I doubt we will ever know the background, even if Yesterday are still filming.  These sort of corporate handbaggings tend to be kept very quiet.  

In the meantime, if Simon Kohler keeps his job, I do hope that they either give him some presentation training or get someone else more professional in to do the next launch video.  Putting to one side Titgate, the launch should have been a positive rebuttal of people like me who have been accusing them of being kettle-centric but when he went off script to say that "steam is more charismatic than diesels" he successfully snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.  I've done media training and live TV and radio interviews and Rule 1 is stick to your message, don't riff or introduce personal observations.  Claiming steam is more charismatic was a subjective personal observation that had no place in the video launch and only served to re-enforce the view that they are being dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st Century.

Personally I will still be thinking twice about buying any Hornby as they are still treating their retailers like Putin treats diplomacy, so even if Titgate has been secretly sorted, unless there is positive movement on the Wall of Tiers I'll give them a swerve.

Excellent point about media training although you missed out one important bit - if you don't want to face any awkward questions which might be difficult to answer all you do is say that you don't have a spokesman available.  Maybe Hornby could apply that to their launch announcements and just show the new products with a (professional) proper promotional voiceover where needed and no questions at the end?  

 

And if you're introducing new additions to your range you need to talk up all of them - not play one off against the other.  I notice that Bachmann haven't told us that that their double Fairlie isn't cuter or prettier than their new Class 47 - however it was easier for them because they very sensibly introduced them to us at different times so could more readily, and separately. promote both.

[PhilJ W]

I will continue to buy Hornby as they do produce models that are suitable for my purposes. My layout is a micro and Hornby's range of shunters, both steam and diesel fits the bill admirably. And for someone who models the GER they (and their associated Oxford Rail) are the go to maker for prototypical locomotives. We just have to pinch our noses when we make our purchases.

[AY Mod]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

if you don't want to face any awkward questions which might be difficult to answer all you do is say that you don't have a spokesman available.  Maybe Hornby could apply that to their launch announcements and just show the new products with a (professional) proper promotional voiceover where needed and no questions at the end?  

 

And if you're introducing new additions to your range you need to talk up all of them - not play one off against the other.  I notice that Bachmann haven't told us that that their double Fairlie isn't cuter or prettier than their new Class 47 - however it was easier for them because they very sensibly introduced them to us at different times so could more readily, and separately. promote both.

 

This is a very good point. Using Bachmann's launch of their new 47 as a case study they had a pre-recorded video (made available to consumers, retailers and media at the same time) with a member of the design team (Dave Parsons) along with their Comms Mgr (Richard Proudman) explaining the tooling suite and the detail differences between the models as well as the technical spec in a comprehensive fashion. Also, thanks to Wendy at Barwell, there are clear and informative detailed images. Plus, I knew, I'd be able to phone or email if any clarification was needed and an answer is always known and given rather than fudged or hidden. The depth of information was far greater than we receive in a face-to-face or video call in the case being presently discussed. Bachmann very much sets the gold standard in information provision to us and the timely supply of review models so that we stand a chance of getting them in print around the time the products hit the shelves with their stockists.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

I will continue to buy Hornby as they do produce models that are suitable for my purposes. 

I would like to, but over the past over the past 11 years out of 10 locos only 3 run properly, RR class 73 and two Spamcans.  Three were sold for spares and repairs only, one I threw against a wall in frustration (about the only time I have lost it, ashamed).  Class 08 still runs, only used for shunting, but has R/H conrod missing after it came loose and flipped loco over after a couple of weeks.  Cannot be repaired without whole new wheelset.  H's attitude was that I broke it!  Which seems a pretty standard response now, 10-15 yrs ago they were most helpful.  My five Baccys just plod on.  No more H's for me.

 

I wonder when Hornby will get round to contacting TFTB pre order customers.  Hope this post does not get deleted like last nights.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Guest
spelling

[Porcy Mane]

4 hours ago, AY Mod said:

This is a very good point

 

It would seem Hornby could now a learn a lot from their younger contemporaries like Accurascale, Bachmann & Rapido in the way in which they engage with their prospective customers and retailers.

 

I feel rather sorry for those Hornby employees that at some point will have to go out and promote the company and its products via face to face contact. They may have to deal with some awkward questions to which they'll not have the answers.

 

I look forward to seeing how Hornby try to turn this PR nightmare around. Maybe they'll just ignore it and hope everybody else forgets about it too. 

Edited February 18, 2022 by Porcy Mane
Change there to they.

[Gilbert]

1 hour ago, confused said:

Cannot be repaired without whole new wheelset.  H's attitude was that I broke it! 

Funny that...mine did exactly the same. The purists love the Hornby gronk for the detail but I prefer Bachmann for reliability..

[Vistisen]

20 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

If somebody mixes models together randomly and runs them around with no regard to how things are done on real railways, what else can it be called other than a train set?

 

 

It's a model railway inspired by...

By your argument then nobody has a model railway...

Anything OO is to narrow a gauge to be real. No model has radius curves anywhere close to the real thing. Platforms are far too short. No model railway I have ever seen has locking of points and/or interlocking of points and signals that I know of), need I go on? 

All model railways (or trainsets) have compromises. Happily, we can each decide what is the most important things that we choose to compromise the least.

[MarkSG]

21 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

If somebody mixes models together randomly and runs them around with no regard to how things are done on real railways, what else can it be called other than a train set?

 

A freelance preserved railway?

[The Stationmaster]

Great News For Collectors and Investors.

 

Having ventured out into the 'Red Wind' this morning  I visited the local branch of WHS in order to purchases various newspapers and a magazine of railway modelling interest.  But what should I spy among the 'hobbies - railways (modelling)' area but copies of the Hornby 2022 catalogue.  Deciding that I had plenty of time in hand I browsed the index which led me to page 45 which I found in all its 'as published' glorification of  'Trains On Film'.  

 

So, I wondered,  would it be a worthwhile investment what with bitcoin being a bit dodgy and bog rolls undoubtedly being worth building into mountains as the prices increase?  But at £10.99 (How much????)  a go and even with inflation coming back into fashion i decided that the number probably floating around plus the number of decades needed to even get a whisper of any sort of profit I'd probably do better looking for another copy of 'The Fallen Madonna with The Big Boobies' by van Clomp if I could find one at a reasonable price and subsequently sell it for rather more. 

 

BTW the only problem with the 'Fallen Madonna ... etc'  picture is that it doesn't really fit in our downstairs facility hence I decided to sell my previous example as there wasn't really anywhere else in the house where it could be hung (or where the management would permit me to hang it).  So if I bought another one - if I could find one - it would have to be taken out of the frame then rolled up and stored in a large sausage.

[Neil]

1 hour ago, Porcy Mane said:

.... I look forward to seeing how Hornby try to turn this PR nightmare around. Maybe they'll just ignore it and hope everybody else forgets about it too. 

 

I do wonder how far the reputational damage has spread? I'm thinking not just about Titgate but the tier system and quality control issues too.

 

Remedy? Well an admission of fault, proper apologies and an all out attempt to address the problem would be a good start. I believe that the ordinary man in the street can respect 'I made a mistake, I'm sorry and this is what I'll do to fix it'. Not rocket science, no tricksy PR required, no spin or bluster.

[Vistisen]

26 minutes ago, Neil said:

 

I do wonder how far the reputational damage has spread? I'm thinking not just about Titgate but the tier system and quality control issues too.

 

Remedy? Well an admission of fault, proper apologies and an all out attempt to address the problem would be a good start. I believe that the ordinary man in the street can respect 'I made a mistake, I'm sorry and this is what I'll do to fix it'. Not rocket science, no tricksy PR required, no spin or bluster.

I suspect that the 'man in the street' (what happened to the man on the Clapham omnibus?) and the majority of Hornbys customers do not know, or care about any of these issues. As long as they can buy a trainset...

[Porcy Mane]

6 minutes ago, Vistisen said:

(what happened to the man on the Clapham omnibus?)

 

He was last seen jumping on Hornby's Pearce & Crump OB just before it disappeared.

[Dunsignalling]

2 hours ago, Vistisen said:

It's a model railway inspired by...

By your argument then nobody has a model railway...

Anything OO is to narrow a gauge to be real. No model has radius curves anywhere close to the real thing. Platforms are far too short. No model railway I have ever seen has locking of points and/or interlocking of points and signals that I know of), need I go on? 

All model railways (or trainsets) have compromises. Happily, we can each decide what is the most important things that we choose to compromise the least.

That wasn't my argument, but the only post by anyone who had clearly read my whole post (thanks Titan) was rapidly deleted (moderated?)  whilst those attacking it haven't been.

 

I've therefore hidden it - no point in a discussion if only one side of it gets seen.

 

John

[Porcy Mane]

54 minutes ago, Neil said:

I believe that the ordinary man in the street can respect 'I made a mistake, I'm sorry and this is what I'll do to fix it'. Not rocket science, no tricksy PR required, no spin or bluster.

 

It might all be just blamed on the office intern. You know the type of stuff, "He/she pressed a few buttons they weren't meant to in between making the tea's. It's alright now we've discovered their mistake. Things are slowly getting back to normal now they've gone back to Uni. Sorry but as you can see, it wasn't our fault."

[DK123GWR]

13 minutes ago, Porcy Mane said:

 

It might all be just blamed on the office intern. You know the type of stuff, "He/she pressed a few buttons they weren't meant to in between making the tea's. It's alright now we've discovered their mistake. Things are slowly getting back to normal now they've gone back to Uni. Sorry but as you can see, it wasn't our fault."

Have they gone back to the University of Sheffield? Do they perchance have a part time job on Rails' ebay store?

[MrTea]

17 minutes ago, Porcy Mane said:

 

It might all be just blamed on the office intern. You know the type of stuff, "He/she pressed a few buttons they weren't meant to in between making the tea's. It's alright now we've discovered their mistake. Things are slowly getting back to normal now they've gone back to Uni. Sorry but as you can see, it wasn't our fault."

I can definitely see someone at Hornby being thrown under an R7381. 
 

That’s due in stores in April if I recall correctly. 

[Phil Parker]

4 hours ago, confused said:

I would like to, but over the past over the past 11 years out of 10 locos only 3 run properly, RR class 73 and two Spamcans.  Three were sold for spares and repairs only, one I threw against a wall in frustration (about the only time I have lost it, ashamed).  Class 08 still runs, only used for shunting, but has R/H conrod missing after it came loose and flipped loco over after a couple of weeks.  Cannot be repaired without whole new wheelset.  H's attitude was that I broke it!  Which seems a pretty standard response now, 10-15 yrs ago they were most helpful.  My five Baccys just plod on.  No more H's for me.

 

I wonder when Hornby will get round to contacting TFTB pre order customers.  Hope this post does not get deleted like last nights.

 

Go on then - how much of this post has ANYTHING to do with the topic "Hornby 2022 - Trains on Film"?

 

None of it. Not one word.

 

OK - I've done my best to keep this on track, and many posters have decided that they will ignore those efforts, so I'm locking the thread. If anything relevant appears, I'll unlock it again.