Dapol OO Gauge Hawthorn Leslie 0-4-0

[69843]

1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

 

Comme ça?

Comme ça, oui. But as usual it is rarely that simple. I also apologise for the following info dump.

Here is Wallaby at the original Australian Iron and Steel works in Lithgow. Note the dumb buffers on the front and apparent lack of livery. This image is reportedly dated 1913 with Wallaby pretty much brand new (2988/1913), coupled to a 30 ton metal ladle. The locomotive was purchased as the locomotive to look after the No.2 Blast Furnace, which also opened in 1913.

(Unknown collection)

2 undated photos show it to be in a livery very close to as preserved, being it would seem the main livery of the locomotive. The location of the first shot is unknown but plausibly Lithgow due to the proximity of the house behind (the steelworks ran lines right through the middle of the town). The second shot, though undated, shows the locomotive on the ore jetty at Port Kembla. Of interest is the bunker, which appears to be a home-made extension fitted when allocated for jetty work. Also note knuckle coupler conversion.

(Unknown collection)

(Bill Parkinson collection)

It is known that when it was restored in 1963 to have been painted in the red/maroon livery, but from October 1979 to an unknown date it was painted Lined Black, a livery that it may or may not have worn in service.

(Ken McCarthy Collection)

And just for final interest, here is Wallaby tucked away behind "Porter" Badger (steelworks built 1943 clone of an original 1929 Porter) and Possum (Manning Wardle 1802/1912) in the early 1960s, not long before withdrawal. It is interesting to note Possum actually started life out as Cyclops for Vickers' Barrow-in-Furness works, arriving in Lithgow in 1919 and survives today back in Eskbank right near the former site of the original works.

(Bill Parkinson collection)

Edited March 20, 2022 by 69843
Addition of link

[Invicta]

3 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

I drew a blank on 'Spider'.

 

 

Seems to be a local one for Dapol -  they're saying it's from Black Park Colliery , which was apparently near Chirk and closed in 1949 - they also had a Peckett named 'Hornet', which fits with the naming theme.

 

A bit of Googling doesn't unearth a lot other than the Black Park locos seem to have moved on to Ifton after closure. 

According to 'Shropshire Railways' by Geoff Cryer, 'Spider' was HL 2623 of 1905, and after Ifton closed in 1968 it seems to have ended up at Ladysmith Washery,  Whitehaven, where it appears to have been scrapped in the early 70's, having probably never worked there. Can anyone shed more light on 'Spider'?

 

Incidentally, one of Spider's shed-mates at Ifton was the Hudswell Clarke 0-6-0T 'Richboro' which stood outside the Dapol factory for a number of years when they were at Llangollen...

[RichardLong]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

I've got a postcard of it in green.

 

One of a set made in the 1970s or very early 1980s of industrial locomotives. Not all were in industrial condition, some were preserved.

 

This is the photo.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/johannes-j-smit/50207272982

 

 

 

 

Jason

That’s SR malachite green which she carried in preservation only from the 1970s-1990s.  I don’t think she’s ever run in preservation in Farnborough green but I believe that might be going to change soon.

[Steamport Southport]

4 hours ago, Invicta said:

 

Seems to be a local one for Dapol -  they're saying it's from Black Park Colliery , which was apparently near Chirk and closed in 1949 - they also had a Peckett named 'Hornet', which fits with the naming theme.

 

A bit of Googling doesn't unearth a lot other than the Black Park locos seem to have moved on to Ifton after closure. 

According to 'Shropshire Railways' by Geoff Cryer, 'Spider' was HL 2623 of 1905, and after Ifton closed in 1968 it seems to have ended up at Ladysmith Washery,  Whitehaven, where it appears to have been scrapped in the early 70's, having probably never worked there. Can anyone shed more light on 'Spider'?

 

Incidentally, one of Spider's shed-mates at Ifton was the Hudswell Clarke 0-6-0T 'Richboro' which stood outside the Dapol factory for a number of years when they were at Llangollen...

 

Good website here..... 

 

 

 

 

Spider was at Bersham at one point, photo in link.

 

 

Jason

[HonestTom]

When I first started modelling the Port of London Authority railways, there was nothing available ready-to-run. Now I have three locomotives to play with. What an age we live in.

[45568]

I can see BR/WR ex-Swansea Harbour Trust 1144 being possible from these!

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

Edited March 21, 2022 by 45568

[No Decorum]

On 19/03/2022 at 13:13, Mark Dickerson said:

OTOH I'd like to see mention of a flywheel in the spec - not that the Hornby Peckett needs one, and I remain interested - and it looks like both sound and flywheel are possible in the Dapol B4. We shall see.

 

Good news, although I still hold a candle for a HudswelI Clarke 0-6-0ST. I wonder if there's anything "out there" from the last attempt.

Yep. Whilst there are classes I yearn for, when something like the Hudswell Clarke appears, I suddenly discover that it’s just what I wanted; I just didn’t know. It would seem to be the sort of thing Dapol could do a good job on and satisfy my craving.

[Ian J.]

Nice to see this, definitely one for the 'Small Shunters' collection 😊

[Ruston]

On 19/03/2022 at 13:13, Mark Dickerson said:

OTOH I'd like to see mention of a flywheel in the spec - not that the Hornby Peckett needs one, and I remain interested - and it looks like both sound and flywheel are possible in the Dapol B4. We shall see.

 

Good news, although I still hold a candle for a HudswelI Clarke 0-6-0ST. I wonder if there's anything "out there" from the last attempt.

But why? A flywheel on a small shunting engine is about as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike. For a flywheel to be of any use it has to be larger than anything that would fit and be spinning at far more rpm than is going to happen in such a model. It's better to use the space for weight or better still to allow a Stay Alive to be fitted.

[Mark Dickerson]

YMMV - "space for DCC and Stay Alive" is heading into motorbike/ashtray territory for this DC user. Someone at Dapol thought there was a point putting one (apparently) in the B4.

 

I'd be bolshier and ask for a larger motor, bevel gears and to blazes with the techno-doodadery, too, but I think it might not bear fruit. 😏

[Steamport Southport]

Didn't the Gold Wing have an ashtray?

 

 

Something did.

[Ruston]

14 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

Didn't the Gold Wing have an ashtray?

 

 

Something did.

A Goldwing isn't a motorbike. It's an armchair on wheels, with a stereo built in, so that old guys can sit in traffic jams listening to Steppenwolf. So I guess an ashtray would be useful on a Goldwing. 😄

[The Johnster]

The trouble with flywheels is that they are of least use when they are most needed, when the loco is travelling slowly and most likely to stall.  And the trouble with stayalives is the same, plus that they cannot be used in DC.  A small 0-4-0 industrial has the least room available for either, never mind both, and my view is that the space would be better used for more ballast weight to improve rail to wheel pickup. 

 

I have two locomotives on Cwmdimbath with flywheels, both Hornby, a 5101 and a 42xx.  Their slow running is not noticeably any better than other locos that do not have flywheels.  Success with good slow running on small DC BLT layouts where not much in the way of speed is ever indulged in depends on other factors; care taken in track laying, level track joins and dead level turnouts, and clean railheads, wheels, and pickups.  So long as the model is well designed and runs freely, all should be well, but some locos do take longer than others to run in sufficiently to give their optimum slow running and smooth stops and starts and pickups need adjusting, more on some locos than others for some reason.  The flywheels look nice, all brass and shiny, and create an impression of a seriously engineered product, but make no discernable difference to the running of the locos.  A big flywheel in a big loco running at high scale speed might take it over a fair sized gap in voltage provision, but since the biggest gap such a loco will encounter would be an insulfrog curved turnout which it can probably manage on it's own momentum in most cases, even here they are of limited value.

 

Demanding that a small DC loco runs well at low speeds is disturbingly close to the limit of the ability of companies to provide reliable volume produced models at competitive prices, and by and large our providers and their Chinese sub-contractors do pretty well at this!

[Ruston]

15 hours ago, The Johnster said:

The trouble with flywheels is that they are of least use when they are most needed, when the loco is travelling slowly and most likely to stall.  And the trouble with stayalives is the same

I must disagree with you there, Johnster. Stay Alives work at any speed. I have Lais DCC units in most of my locos. They are only about 9x9x11mm in size and on speed step 3 of 28 they can travel approximately 3/4 of an inch without power, which is easily long enough to go over any dirt or a dodgy point frog. They would probably go further without sound taking power in addition to the motor.

 

3 of 28 steps is very slow.

 

[Mark Dickerson]

Well, I suppose I could take off the flywheels from my Bachmann 08s and Hornby J15s and test this experimentally, too, but...

[Les1952]

On 09/04/2022 at 00:29, The Johnster said:

The trouble with flywheels is that they are of least use when they are most needed, when the loco is travelling slowly and most likely to stall.  And the trouble with stayalives is the same, plus that they cannot be used in DC.  A small 0-4-0 industrial has the least room available for either, never mind both, and my view is that the space would be better used for more ballast weight to improve rail to wheel pickup. 

 

 

The N Gauge Society's Hunslet shunter has a stayalive that works on analogue, and that is a very small N-gauge loco.

 

Les

Edited April 14, 2022 by Les1952
addition

[wilks]

This is an excellent choice by Dapol. Hopefully it will easy to convert to EM with sufficient space behind the slidebars and crosshead and wheels and axles that can be swapped easily.

[The Johnster]

1 hour ago, Les1952 said:

 

The N Gauge Society's Hunslet shunter has a stayalive that works on analogue, and that is a very small N-gauge loco.

 

Les

 

This is very interesting information and I will investigate it further.  A DC stayalive has long been a dream of mine.

[Ian J.]

Just had an email from Hattons outlining the availability:

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/directory/versiondetails/5374/dapol_oo_0_4_0st_hawthorn_leslie#models

[SR71]

That's a lot of variations!

[James Harrison]

I had the same email and had to double check (as I thought, I've had Invincible on order since first announced).  A lot of various identities and liveries announced, but do we know anything about variations in details?  Are these going to be like the Hornby Pecketts which have different domes, chimneys etc depending on which model you order?

[TheEngineShed]

2 hours ago, James Harrison said:

A lot of various identities and liveries announced, but do we know anything about variations in details?  Are these going to be like the Hornby Pecketts which have different domes, chimneys etc depending on which model you order?

 

That's a good question, if we are going to get different height chimneys, cab backs, etc, it would be nice to have that information up front, it would make it easier to preorder, instead of waiting for engineering samples...

 

Edited August 28, 2022 by TheEngineShed

[Dunsignalling]

7 hours ago, TheEngineShed said:

 

That's a good question, if we are going to get different height chimneys, cab backs, etc, it would be nice to have that information up front, it would make it easier to preorder, instead of waiting for engineering samples...

 

Very useful if one is trying to work out which one is most suited for adaptation to a personal favourite, but I doubt that such information is imminent! It's possible, anyway, that the prototypes have been specifically chosen for their uniformity.😁

 

I'm pretty sure which I'll be getting, but am hanging fire on any pre-orders until I know more.

 

All we've been shown so far is a single CAD image for all  the versions, so these probably aren't yet very far along the development process. Thus, firm decisions on detail variations may not yet have been taken.

 

The announced delivery window is basically all of 2023, so we might see fuller CAD images with more info in a month or two, and initial EPs just this side of Christmas....(if we're lucky).

 

John

Edited August 29, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[alexl102]

Have Dapol released any livery illustrations for these models? I’ve look on Rails and Hattons but they’re all  just showing a CAD drawing. 

[TheEngineShed]

2 hours ago, alexl102 said:

Have Dapol released any livery illustrations for these models? I’ve look on Rails and Hattons but they’re all  just showing a CAD drawing. 

 

No, not yet.

 

I managed to find proto photos of 7 of the 9 models being offered.  I went so far as to post flickr links to all seven in a response to this topic.  Problem was that even though flickr allows you to copy links, some of the photographers didn't want their images reposted on other sites without permission.  So I deleted them all to avoid any controversies.  The biggest difference from the photos I found at seemed to be whether the cab back was open, or closed with port holes.   If that matters, it is a simple exercise to search flickr.  Of course, if Dapol are only going to offer a closed back with port holes as depicted in the current CAD image, you might want to stay away from certain models...

Edited September 3, 2022 by TheEngineShed
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