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Hornby Princess Coronation Class (Duchess)





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#426 adb968008

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 15:08

It's City of Salford, that's why the person you quoted went and reacted like that, you misspelled part of 46257's name.


That's understandable, after all the real City of Manchester was spelt wrong,

It's name is supposed to be "City of Munchessterrr"

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#427 coachmann

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 15:19

When it comes to railway colours, the arguments you guys put forward are unbelievable at times. I expect all professional painters ignore the worlds favourite toy train forum. I should too!   :banghead:


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#428 Ian Hargrave

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 16:32

On the topic of paint colours being "right", my boss told me an interesting story once. During the 80s, a fellow modeller told him that all the locos and coaches he had painted BR Blue were the wrong colour. He was adamant about it right up until my boss told him that the paint he was using was the actual BR Blue paint from Crewe Works (where he worked at the time) that was used to paint the real locos and coaches on the national network. The other chap said nothing after that. :D

 

Alex

 

And the reason BR stopped using it was that it did not weather well after prolonged exposure to the elements and quickly faded in any case.....proving there's no such thing as the "right" shade of blue...


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#429 coachmann

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 17:22

And the reason BR stopped using it was that it did not weather well after prolonged exposure to the elements and quickly faded in any case.....proving there's no such thing as the "right" shade of blue...

No, there is a right shade of blue Ian. What happens to it after it has been applied is something else completely. This is where people go up the garden path. Throughout railway history there has been the search for the colour that is applied new. When Wiliamsons and Masons supplied colour samples, they supplied them with new paint. So when you read a book on railway liveries, don't expect to find references to the shade after three weeks, after it has been cleaned with oily rags, what it looks like a person has a colour cast in his left eye, when locos work by the seaside or when Uranus is in conjunction with the Sun. 

 

The NRM and the heritage lines that take railway liveries seriously have managed perfectly well over the years and all have benefited from research by a number of dedicated people, many of them no longer with us. 


Edited by coachmann, 16 August 2017 - 17:24 .

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#430 sparaxis

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 13:04

I think there is another subtlety that people forget. Many traditional pigments fall foul of modern ROHS rules. Lead, Mercury or Cadmium compounds for example. You may be able to get close to the "right shade" using modern pigments in environmentally acceptable paint base, but all bets are off when you start comparing things after a while out in the sun and the rain.



#431 RickRoper

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Posted Yesterday, 14:19

Is anyone able to confirm that the model of 46256 will be produced with a pivoting rear truck, as per prototype? I can fully understand a fixed truck on the cartazzi fitted locos, but would not be impressed if a rear bissel truck were to be modelled in a fixed position.

 

Richard.



#432 34theletterbetweenB&D

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Posted Yesterday, 14:54

All indications are that it will be fixed truck, flangeless wheel as supplied: take a look at the pics on Hornby's site and the truck wheelset looks flangeless. This is now established as Hornby's one size fits all solution to the problem of getting a big loco round set track radii, and the best offer has been an alternative flanged replacement wheelset in the box.  If you track back over about the last four pages in this thread this has been chewed over.

 

My take on this is that it will be a DIY job to make a running model with a flanged wheelset, had to do this on all the 'fixed truck' Hornby pacifics I own. Now, given that on all the Britannias I have seen, the flanged wheelset doesn't actually fit inside the truck casting and yet online complaint about this is absent - at least I don't recall any - Hornby don't have any customer pressure to persuade them to deviate from their chosen method...



#433 jf2682

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Posted Yesterday, 17:41

Is anyone able to confirm that the model of 46256 will be produced with a pivoting rear truck, as per prototype? I can fully understand a fixed truck on the cartazzi fitted locos, but would not be impressed if a rear bissel truck were to be modelled in a fixed position.

 

Richard.

The Stanier pacifics did not have a Cartazzi arrangement, they all had pivoting trucks.  Unfortunately Hornby's advertising has gone a bit astray here.  The Gresley pacifics had the Cartazzi arrangement.



#434 coachmann

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Posted Yesterday, 20:50

So people want a swinging rear truck because it is prototypical. Shouldn't this be on the Jokes thread...? 

 

How do they square this cock-eyed ideology with sending a bloomin' great Duchess flying around their grossly un-prototypical curves and even trainset curves....?  


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#435 cctransuk

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Posted Yesterday, 21:50

So people want a swinging rear truck because it is prototypical. Shouldn't this be on the Jokes thread...? 

 

How do they square this cock-eyed ideology with sending a bloomin' great Duchess flying around their grossly un-prototypical curves and even trainset curves....?  

 

Larry,

 

BECAUSE it's prototypical - and because it would be easier for Hornby than not doing.

 

As I have pointed out here - twice - and to Hornby - it is surely easier to produce and fit a standard pivotting rear truck and lock it in place with an extra screw for those who are radii-challenged.

 

ALL the model producers provided pivotting rear trucks until vey recently. They stated - regularly - that this was necessary to get Pacifics round small radii, even when the subject was a Gresley Pacific that SHOULDN'T have a pivotting truck.

 

Now we have the ludicrous situation whereby locos that should have pivotting trucks are being provided by Hornby withy fixed trucks - allegedly to get them to negotiate small radii.

 

Pull the other one, Hornby !!! :nono:

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.


Edited by cctransuk, Yesterday, 21:51 .

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#436 Brocp

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Posted Today, 02:14

Larry,

BECAUSE it's prototypical - and because it would be easier for Hornby than not doing.

As I have pointed out here - twice - and to Hornby - it is surely easier to produce and fit a standard pivotting rear truck and lock it in place with an extra screw for those who are radii-challenged.

ALL the model producers provided pivotting rear trucks until vey recently. They stated - regularly - that this was necessary to get Pacifics round small radii, even when the subject was a Gresley Pacific that SHOULDN'T have a pivotting truck.

Now we have the ludicrous situation whereby locos that should have pivotting trucks are being provided by Hornby withy fixed trucks - allegedly to get them to negotiate small radii.

Pull the other one, Hornby !!! :nono:

Regards,
John Isherwood.


That's all well and good, but people complained more about the unprototypical appearence of those earlier pacifics than complain about the fixed truck now. So basically they are damn if they do and damned if they don't.

Personally i see no issue with them as they now are, if anyone has an issue they can always modify it of they so wish. That's what modellers do right? Hornby are designing and building these to a budget, to sell them to us at a reasonably cheap price. In OO there will always be comproimse and this is what they feel is the best bet for Pacific locos. They seem to sell extremely well and if there was a call to change to pony truck arrangement it's obviously minimal as they have not changed them this new design for over a decade.
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#437 cctransuk

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Posted Today, 08:35

That's all well and good, but people complained more about the unprototypical appearence of those earlier pacifics than complain about the fixed truck now. So basically they are damn if they do and damned if they don't.

Personally i see no issue with them as they now are, if anyone has an issue they can always modify it of they so wish. That's what modellers do right? Hornby are designing and building these to a budget, to sell them to us at a reasonably cheap price. In OO there will always be comproimse and this is what they feel is the best bet for Pacific locos. They seem to sell extremely well and if there was a call to change to pony truck arrangement it's obviously minimal as they have not changed them this new design for over a decade.

 

Not changed in a decade? They were producing pivotting rear trucks for half a century !!

 

Have a look at their range of Pacifics - how many should have pivotting trucks and how many fixed?

 

A pivotting rear truck, fitted with two screws and a flangeless wheelset, is a fixed truck - and everybody is happy.

 

Unfortunately, the reverse is not true.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.



#438 coachmann

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Posted Today, 08:39

Most views of the final two 'Princess Coronation' class locomotives show very clearly the mainframes behind the trailing truck and under the firegrate.  Within the frames is the ashpan. In order to have a swinging bogie, as some people are asking for on their model, it doesn't take much imagination to show that a massive chunk of mainframe and ashpan has to be removed to allow side play as well as up & down movement of the wheels.....Vitally important to those who run their model train on the carpet! I jest not. The end result of such a modification would be gaping open space of daylight around the wheels, which is far from prototypical. I think that people have simply not thought it through. Fortunately, Hornby has and is using an eminently sensible work around that should suit everyone.

 

The prototype is probably designed ot negotiate a minimum radius of 6 chains or 4½ chain dead slow. Railways rarely go below six chains radius and even this is most often found in sidings. To put this into perspective, it is the equivalent of 5ft 2½ inches radius in 4mm scale. Many modellers think they are doing well with 3ft radius curves and in toyland 17½ inch radius is routine!

 

I hope these tiny details shed some light.

 

PS: I started typing this some time ago so it is not a response to any single individual.


Edited by coachmann, Today, 08:41 .

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#439 34theletterbetweenB&D

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Posted Today, 08:51

... if there was a call to change to pony truck arrangement it's obviously minimal as they have not changed them this new design for over a decade.

 Much as I agree with John Isherwood that a superior design capable of satisfying all parties is eminently possible (and this was brought to Hornby's attention shortly after the Gresley pacifics appeared with the fixed flangeless arrangement in 2004/5) they have absolutely no significant customer pressure toward making such a change.

 

I say this confidently, repeating what I posted earlier. The flanged wheelset supplied with the Britannias, will not even fit inside the rear truck casting on all the 2006/7 examples I have seen! It has been necessary to cut significant clearance inside the rear truck casting to first admit the wheelset and then prevent an instant short circuit. Online comment on this matter in my recollection - none. So the customers are not interested, and DIY it has to be.









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