Should those who display at exhibitions engage with members of the public?

[lapford34102]

As layout operators, do you find it rude that a member of the public would be quite happy not to interact but to watch trains for a long period of time? Or is it all in my head?

 

I've noticed people doing this when I'm exhibiting and found it not that uncommon. Don't have a problem with it at all and realise I tend to do the same thing. If they're getting something out of it fine, talking isn't mandatory. The ones who spook me slightly are those who stand there and make notes and don't say anything. I'd love to know what they're writing down, then again, maybe not.

I haven't read through everything here word for word so someone else may have mentioned the completely random conversation that has nothing to do with the layout or even modelling. Occasionally felt like a Ad Hoc social worker and not that comfortable. Having worked on large layouts and my own small ones think it's a particular hazard of the single operator layout.

 

Stu

[Chamby]

Just in case anyone has the wrong idea. The reference to a visitor in Truro was completely tongue in cheek. Stubby is a great chap and has not only helped out on many occasions operate one of our layouts but has also regularly fed us.

I don’t doubt it... you may have noticed my own proximity to Truro, I don’t know Stubby personally but he will not be the only person indirectly referenced by your comment!

 

Edit: no offence intended or taken :-)

 

Phil.

Edited January 6, 2018 by Chamby

[Clive Mortimore]

Exhibitors have a duty to entertain paying visitors. I completely agree that exhibitors have a should always engage with paying visitors. I would even say it is quite wrong for exhibitors to chat with each other (unless it is pertinent to the running of the layout) when there are paying visitors who may wish to speak with them. Having said that the top priority must be to keep trains running while there are paying visitors watching; this is the only thing that is more important than engaging with visitors.

 

It has to be said that a very small proportion of visitors are a pain and it is a relief when they move on to another layout.

 

It is good to let youngsters have a drive if circumstances permit and I give this priority over engaging with others. I have found that nearly all youngsters are very careful when given the chance to drive a train.

 

I’m not sure about having spare operators unless they are placed in front of the layout specifically to chat. Quite often the layouts with the most operators run the fewest trains.

We are railway modellers, if you want entertaining pay to go and see a live band, a play, a musical or a sports event. See how far you get with your fiver you pay at the door of a model railway exhibition. If you went to an art exhibition would you expect the artist to entertain you.

 

Having exhibited my own layouts, club layouts, helped friends with their layouts, sat in the cold on a demonstration stand and manned society stalls I have always engaged with the public. There is a big difference between engaging and entertaining.

 

There are times when you don't want to engage with members of the public. No mater how many times he was told the lawn mower was scratch built and what I had used to make it he still insisted that I told him what kit it was. And there are times when physical engagement would be a course of action to take, when a scratchbuilt loco is picked up off the layout turned over and the geezer with plumb in his mouth accent says " Oh! It is not Hornby" and just plonks it down not even back on the tracks. Or they help themselves to what is in the fiddle yard and go to the nearest trade stand moaning there is no price on it.

 

I do not have an EQUITY card.

[Gilbert]

I'm starting to suspect that a) the public require high intensity operation, flawless reliability all day long, and showman levels of personal interaction and b) you can deliver any two of those at one time.  But not three....

 

I have shown various layouts at all sorts of shows from "very local" to Ally Pally.

Apart  from the "Premier Division"  the vast majority of paying customers are young parents with interested kids (some of whom are naturals at DCC control)  and who are thinking of building something or have bought a 1970s Triang B12 or Class 31 from the second hand stall......I do what I can to help and have had some very pleasant chats and received grateful thanks. The layout is almost incidental...sorry...

[NittenDormer]

I've helped exhibit layouts that I have neither built nor really understand the rolling stock I am operating (lets keep that between ourselves). As I don't know the answers to almost all questions, my approach is more a running commentary on what I am doing (helps me get my own head around it), interspersed with plenty of not-at-all-embarrassed 'oops, that's not meant to happen' type comments as the wrong train moves etc. Which raises another question - to what degree should exhibitors come across as competent and professional, and to what degree amateurs doing something they enjoy?

[roundhouse]

I've helped exhibit layouts that I have neither built nor really understand the rolling stock I am operating (lets keep that between ourselves). As I don't know the answers to almost all questions, my approach is more a running commentary on what I am doing (helps me get my own head around it), interspersed with plenty of not-at-all-embarrassed 'oops, that's not meant to happen' type comments as the wrong train moves etc. Which raises another question - to what degree should exhibitors come across as competent and professional, and to what degree amateurs doing something they enjoy?

I built the layout yet still make as many mistakes as my helpers

[newbryford]

I've helped exhibit layouts that I have neither built nor really understand the rolling stock I am operating (lets keep that between ourselves). As I don't know the answers to almost all questions, my approach is more a running commentary on what I am doing (helps me get my own head around it), interspersed with plenty of not-at-all-embarrassed 'oops, that's not meant to happen' type comments as the wrong train moves etc. Which raises another question - to what degree should exhibitors come across as competent and professional, and to what degree amateurs doing something they enjoy?

 

According to some (thankfully a very limited few) exhibition goers, we should be professionals, but until we charge for our services, we are amateurs........ If we did that, then the average exhibition entry price might have to increase a bit a lot.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[wombatofludham]

I've helped exhibit layouts that I have neither built nor really understand the rolling stock I am operating (lets keep that between ourselves). As I don't know the answers to almost all questions, my approach is more a running commentary on what I am doing (helps me get my own head around it), interspersed with plenty of not-at-all-embarrassed 'oops, that's not meant to happen' type comments as the wrong train moves etc. Which raises another question - to what degree should exhibitors come across as competent and professional, and to what degree amateurs doing something they enjoy?

With King's Oak the number of buffer bashes I managed to fit into one running session was legendary. I always made a joke of it, saying something like "I'll sack the driver" or "That'll teach 'em to get out of their seats before we stop". Even better, on a few occasions I'd let (with mum or dad's consent of course) a youngster "have a go" and invariably they managed to drive into the station better than me, much to the mirth of my friend who used to come with me to help out.

 

Point failure was also a source of humour for the audience when the "hand of God" reached over to shift the point manually.

[Argos]

No. Been there, done that... As a visitor, I'd try and acknowledge the operator, if only a nod and/or saying 'good morning', so they knew I'm not ignoring them/sulking. But often I have no questions, just like to take in the atmosphere of a layout. And on the other side of a layout, you know some people just like to do that. If you're too eager to 'engage' them, you can actually put them off. Be available but not 'pushy'. 

 

Agree with this, I exhibited for the first time in December.

The exhibition was not that busy due to the weather and most people were more than happy to chat, facilitated by the layout being operated from the front.

Being a sole operator it was difficult to run the layout and chat though.

 

I did scare a couple of people off who seemed happy to watch by simply saying "hello".

 

I guess it is all a matter of balance and judgement.

[Phil Bullock]

Have to agree with the sentiments expressed so far - covered most of the dynamics very well

 

One discussion not touched on - and perhaps I am being selfish here - is with professional railwaymen. If I hadn't engaged they wouldn't have happened - and you take them in the spirit they are meant ...

 

So at Swansea - elderly gentleman watching a pair of 37s on Gulf tanks eventually volunteers - I used to be a guard at Carmarthen and worked on those trains, you have it spot on!

 

At GETS - Ex Saltley driver volunteers he used to drive Peaks through Abbotswood all the time - response was well you had better come over here and show us how to do it properly then - the look on his face was a picture.

 

And ex Hornsey man - that baby deltic sounds spot on!

 

Now we all know the limitations of our models but if we can engage professional railwaymen in this way then that's good enough for me!

 

And there is one gentleman who has spent many hours with us - he appears at shows , watches for a good while, goes away but is soon back to watch some more. Not the most talkative but I now know that and acknowledge but not try to force conversation

 

But the engagement with families with younger children is always key for me - the look on their faces when you invite them to have a drive and them issue them with a souvenir ticket followed by the thanks from the parents makes it all worthwhile

 

Phil

[Tim Hall]

It was by talking to the audience that I gave the Mayor of Sandwell a chocolate sprout.....

[MarcD]

I can only speak from my limited experience on either side of the operator/viewer role. As a viewer I'm the one who always wants to know how they have built it. And from the operator side I'm also quite happy to boar the viewer with all  the historical info that goes in to each of the models on the layout. We try to get the kids involved changing the points and opening gates on Scratchy Bottom/Lowick and I even have my 5 year old niece operating our narrow gauge shunting layout. 

 

Something I have noticed occasionally I have been very thankful of the interruptions while shunting as It does give me a chance to think about the next move.

 

Marc   

[Anglian]

Going against the grain slightly my answer is a roundabout 'it depends' but an emphatic 'yes' if they are demonstrating modelling techniques. I don't expect people to talk to me or consider it their duty even though I've paid to walk in the door of the show. My attitude is more grateful that they are prepared to put on a show in the first place. Of course it's always an interesting bonus when I do have a chat. I tend to find myself falling into conversation with one of a team if I've been viewing a layout for a reasonable time. I guess by that point they can gauge a level of interest. For example, I was quite taken back when Trevor Nunn of East Lynn fame handed me such beautiful delicate looking wagon models to inspect more closely.

 

At a show a couple of years ago there was beautiful layout that I kept coming back to, so much so that they let me sit behind the barriers for a rather different view, conversation continued and I felt rather privileged to be given such an opportunity.

 

I've never been part of an exhibition team but I have sometimes been aware of just how diplomatic many have been when faced with a 'know-it-all'. In some cases I can't believe how rude some folks can be and why perhaps some exhibitors and operators will hope they will quickly move on.

Edited January 5, 2018 by Anglian

[Legend]

It’s another tricky one , a case where one size definitely does not fit everyone.

 

I’ve been round exhibitions and not talked to anyone, through choice . On the other hand occasionally I chat to the guy standing next to me . Some exhibitions positively invite interaction. I’ve always found the Greenock show to be particularly friendly and enjoy talking to the guys there.

 

My pet hate is layouts with either nothing going on or one train constantly going round and the operators having a good laugh or a wee huddle amongst themselves . While I appreciate people go to a lot of trouble to exhibit items and it should be a social and enjoyable occasion for them, they should consider that they are there to provide a show. People have spent good money not just on the entrance fee but maybe car parking or travel to get there.

 

So my suggestion is concentrate on running your layout. Have a good laugh and enjoy yourselves while putting on the show and displaying your layout to its best. That’s no1 requirement. If you do have a spare pair of hands by all means have a chat with folks out front and be prepared to answer questions

Edited January 5, 2018 by Legend

[Suzie]

Yes

 

I try and be proactive to the point of collaring anyone who goes near the layout to find something to encourage them with, but there are times, especially on larger layouts when the available set-up time has not been adequate, that I cannot be as proactive as I like to be and I like to think that less busy fellow operators will step in.

 

Unfortunately exhibitors are from the pool of people and not everyone is as outgoing and charming as me so it can be hard - but I do think many exhibitors could try harder, and that exhibition managers should take note of the layout staffing competence in that regard when booking a layout.

 

Never be frightened to ask, even if you think you are being a bit pushy. Often operators are really that engrossed in what they are doing that they do not notice the customers. You are likely to get a helpful response even if it is just 'we are a little busy at the moment, pop back in five minutes and I can help you better' or 'Have a word with Fred over there he knows all about it'

 

With exhibition managers ever careful with their spending on operators it can be hard to get a proper PR turn in as part of the crew, but perhaps clubs organising the exhibitions could step in and have some PR people with appropriate brightly coloured hats that have made the effort to learn a bit about the exhibited layouts?

[Colin_McLeod]

FWIW my view is that some members of the public just want to watch without engaging in conversation and may or may not say something complimentary and brief as they leave. Other MofP can be rude and deserve to be ignored. In the case of MotP who genuinely want to ask a question/converse with the operator they should be able to do so. However being a railway modeller does not mean that one has the necessary skills to deal with the public. Perhaps the demonstrating club shold nominate one of their number with the necessary social skills to deal with the public and that member should devote him/herself to that task.

Members can rotate this task to give the guy a break.

[bike2steam]

I dunno about others, but I find it difficult to 'multi-task', if someone starts asking questions while I'm operating, things start to go wrong, so if I can, I'll offer control to someone else, and try to answer questions. If I cant pass control on to someone else, and there are others watching, the person asking questions will be respectfully asked to come back later.   

[Clive Mortimore]

Phil has mentioned engaging families. I use to have a sign on Pig Lane asking how many drivers came to work on their bicycles, count the number of bikes. There were 20 odd dotted all over the layout. The kids loved it and no matter how many they counted they got a prize of a sweet, with the parents permission. Normally dad got one too. Until it was pointed out should anything happen to one of those children someone would say, the man at the railway exhibition was giving out sweets to the children. It made me think and now I will not invite a child whose parents I do not know to "come and play".

 

The counting the bikes was great fun and it fully engaged the kids and the grown ups, even serious modellers enjoyed it. Pity out in the big wide world there are people who can take advantage of others disguised as fun.

Edited January 6, 2018 by Clive Mortimore

[newbryford]

. Pity out in the big wide world there are people who can take advantage of others disguised as fun.

 

That reminds me of another thing to go on the exhibition layout packing list - A CRB/DBS certificate....

 

Heck - I even get grief when offering chocolate biscuits to my operating team.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Moggs Eye]

That reminds me of another thing to go on the exhibition layout packing list - A CRB/DBS certificate....

 

Heck - I even get grief when offering chocolate biscuits to my operating team.

 

Cheers,

Mick

I'm usually in trouble for forgetting chocolate biscuits!

[Chris M]

"I've paid therefore I have the right to your attention" is a very crude and transactional attitude to what is still a hobby and a voluntary activity for everyone involved. Exhibitors might get paid expenses, but you still always end up out of pocket, one way or another, after a weekend at an exhibition. If nothing else, these people are giving up their time freely to be there.

 

Of course, when someone has a question or wants to see something up close, or to chat about the prototype or whatever, the operators should do their best to help, and I always do. But it is going too far to say that it is not legitimate for them to talk amongst themselves about expenses (which almost always have to be dealt with before a certain time on the day - no come back for anything sent in later), or just chat with fellow operators who might have come from the opposite end of the country to operate. On one recent show with the layout I help operate, one of the operators had flown in from the USA (at his own cost) specially to help operate - was he not allowed to have a chat with fellow operators he hadn't seen for the past year?

 

If people want to trot out the "I'm a paying customer" attitude, you should remember not only that the operators don't make a penny from your entry fee, but that as a fundamentally voluntary activity that usually only just covers its costs, the overall fee for a model railway show is remarkably low compared to any other organised weekend activity. If you see yourself first and foremost as a customer, and want "professional" customer service, perhaps you should consider what a model railway show would cost, and be like, with operators being paid employees at your beck and call? Its certainly not the kind of experience I'd want, on either side of the layout.

 

Don't get me wrong, there is no excuse for rudeness or disrespect on the part of operators, and of course they should engage so far as is feasible at the particular time, but please do remember that they are volunteers, and part of the reason they give their time up will be for the social side of the show too.

 

J

When I said "Exhibitors have a duty to entertain paying visitors." I was speaking as an exhibitor rather than a visitor. My two layouts and the club layout I run will be going to ten shows this year. These layouts are very different in character and who they are aimed at but the crew will always be keen to do what they can to engage with and entertain the paying visitors. The joy of exhibiting is to see happy faces enjoying your work.

[37114]

Agree with this, I exhibited for the first time in December.

The exhibition was not that busy due to the weather and most people were more than happy to chat, facilitated by the layout being operated from the front.

Being a sole operator it was difficult to run the layout and chat though.

 

I did scare a couple of people off who seemed happy to watch by simply saying "hello".

 

I guess it is all a matter of balance and judgement.

I have a front operated layout precisely to allow me to better interact with the public. I make a point of saying hello to people who come to see the layout, which often results in either an interesting discussion with the viewer pr in rare cases the viewer smiles and legs it!!!

[Phil Bullock]

Clives bicycle counting is a good one - and on Abbotswood the watching kids often count wagons in trains. If families are friendly I will expand that by saying those wagons carry 16 tons of coal - how much coal does the whole train carry ? The parents often struggle with the maths ! Just wait until those HUOs come along... 24.5 tons hee hee

 

And then for adults theres the Python allusions to be spotted..... John Cleese, the fierce white rabbit, and the lupins

 

Phil

Edited January 6, 2018 by Phil Bullock

[Chamby]

That reminds me of another thing to go on the exhibition layout packing list - A CRB/DBS certificate....

 

Heck - I even get grief when offering chocolate biscuits to my operating team.

 

Cheers,

Mick

Make sure that you have gluten free and vegetarian alternatives available too.

 

And if you are getting into DBS requirements, maybe you need to think about gender diversity training as well.

 

Also, what about those layouts that have a copulating couple secreted in the camping coach, or behind partly open curtains in that low relief house? They might get you into trouble too, if someone complains...

[Hroth]

 

...

And then for adults theres the Python allusions to be spotted..... John Cleese, the fierce white rabbit, and the lupins

 

Phil

And on that note, how about a Morris side equipped with fish instead of sticks?