Oxford Rail announces - OO gauge Mk3 coaches

[Sir TophamHatt]

I was all ready to buy a whole set of these but after watching the review, I'm holding off.

 

Not fully desperate for them but there's too many minus points - plus the fact they'll be running with my Swallow HST (new tooling) only so if the colours don't match...

 

If the oxford rail / Hornby merger is true then I'd be better off waiting anyway as they may solve the niggles like the toilet glazing, silver window surrounds and such.

 

Still, a very nice coach.  Just not quite what I'm looking for.

[adb968008]

On 20/01/2018 at 01:41, dubscottie said:

Swallow was not an evolution of mainline.

Swallow appeared in 1987 and mainline in 1989/90.

Then you have mainline 86 and 87s. In the days when a loco would do a Euston - Glasgow passenger and return on a Mossend steel train.

Painted mainline also, some with Intercity italics added.

Sorry yes, they both descend from Executive.

 

Here is a few ideas for window labels...

 

Manchester Pullman looks kind of a slow stopping service compared to Virgin Trains operation today.

Edited May 9, 2021 by adb968008

[cs233]

These coaches would benefit from a window destination label for sure. Is there any small printing retailer known that would offer such a service of selling them? 

[Waverley West]

Window labels........

 

Cheers,

Mick

 

Already sorted on my Hornby ones. They make for an easy and interesting addition.

 

 

The Oxford Mk 3s look pretty good to me, but I don't think they're good enough for me to ditch my Hornby ones, which I've spent many hours improving, with Lazerglaze windows and frames, painted interiors, fitting of passengers, respraying, etc. The next improvement is to fit corridor connections and then, finally, interior lights.

 

I might have been tempted if the Oxford ones had had lights. The grey on the Oxford ones definitely looks too grey for me and I don't fancy respraying yet another rake of Mk 3s. Having said that, they look good value for money, but as others have said they're far from perfect, which is actually a relief for me as I would have been in the market for 30 or so, which even at £30 a coach would have added up. It looks like the Bachmann Mk 2f's are going to cost me a fortune as it is.

[adb968008]

These coaches would benefit from a window destination label for sure. Is there any small printing retailer known that would offer such a service of selling them?

 

Just copy my picture above into MIcrosoft paint, select/cut out the one you need into a new window and shrink it down to size, print it out.

 

Remember sometimes window labels went into the top left, or top right first passenger window in either ends of the saloon too... all depends on the train crew doing it. (Removing them was a bit more edgy, as people can see you, especially if the train hadn’t reached its destination).

Edited January 20, 2018 by adb968008

[adb968008]

Here’s my first comparison...

Impressions, very good, especially the electrical cables, paint finish..



The end details beats the hell out of my aging lima one..

The coach is all set up for lights, the bogies have pre-drilled wiring holes, and has contact plates along the inside of the bogie, with bearing cup shape groove to hold the wheel coned axles ends on..


Painted interior detail looks very good, here’s with a simulated interior light...


For comparison here’s a Lima one..


Your just not looking at the same thing, it’s clear the interior has been painted in a reflective way to bring out the best of the interior with lights, which I think is a must for these.

On the question of length, the coach is just shorter than the Lima one and comes in at a scale 75’ 6” dead on.




Livery I think the lower light grey bar is too light, however as you see against the Lima one, which in the 90’s was considered to be too dark... there’s little in it. It’s acceptable, and given all the other detail, extra printing even the wheel tooling details.. this is a no contest winner. The shade is exacerbated depending if your in the light or the dark (in a loft or a shade you’ll not see it as much, in the daylight or sunlight... yes it’s obvious).

 

Check out the detail on the wheels...





Finally,.. not that the underframe is devoid of any tooling (not that it matters as no one sees it), but it’s also devoid of Oxford Rails name too.

 

 

Where next for this coach ?

It was designed as a competitor to the Hornby coach, so to outsell it, it needed to be better and cheaper to sell in large Quantity.

 

Oxford and Hornby are no longer competitors.

 

If they fix the grey, add the lights, it would easily fetch a £59.99 RRP... so this is a bargain, and I suspect not to be repeated.

Edited January 20, 2018 by adb968008

[DaveClass47]

whoa...

don't be too hasty.

 

it does look too light, but i'll reserve my judgement until I've compared both the Oxford models with my photo collection (I have several images from the early - mid 90s).

 

but in the pictures above your comparing mid-late 1980s British Rail intercity 'Executive' livery (c1983-1987, but lived onto the 90's), against 1987-1996s Sectorised Intercity 'Swallow' livery. I always personally remembered comparing BA Swallow white as a silver white, like Concorde, where as the earlier grey livery was more drab. The Dark Grey on Swallow livery was more of a black too where as Executive dark grey was precisely that.

 

There are differences, but the Oxford coach is quite definitely a period 8-10 years later than the coach parked next to it.  I don't recall ever seeing 'Manchester Pullman' Intercity stock still being named by 'Swallow' times.

 

The Oxford coach has the 1990's features right.. Orange Cantrail, CDL locking etc.. the Manchester Pullman picture is pre-CDL and pre-Orange Cantrails, the Intercity font is the earlier style and the number will probably be large with an 'M' prefix too.

 

There is one feature that modellers should consider to add to these models that is just crying to be added.. I've got a stash of  nearly 100 different originals in my office collected from my traveling spotting jaunts.. (I'll leave that teaser till the am)...

 

I think your right, in being too light, but the comparison should at least be Apples for Apples and compare the same liveries.

Hi!,

 

Oh, I am not meaning to be hasty.  As I said in my youtube review, its a good coach and very well made and executed.  I will be getting more as they will look good behind a Class 87 and 90!

 

Regarding the image; unfortunately It was one of the few images that I could find of a loco hauled MK3a online that wasn't property of someone.   But it does show the difference in side colour.   The addition of a cantrail and the swapping over of some writing on the side did not always mean a complete re-paint.   Most MK3 coaches simply got the INTERCITY swallow italic writing put on in place of the executive 'inter-city 125' lettering.  Small details on the coaches from the mid 80's to the 90's did occur however.  As I said in my youtube review, there are conflicting images of MK3a showing anything from very light grey to beige.

 

"Good model of the MK3A....but not a great one" as someone I spoke to in my local model shop summed it up.

Edited January 20, 2018 by DaveClass47

[newbryford]

I guess a comparison of the Oxford Mk3 will be the forthcoming Bachmann MK2F. Will it be twice the model, given it's nearly twice the price?

 

Cheers,

Mick

[newbryford]

 

 

Where next for this coach ?

It was designed as a competitor to the Hornby coach, so to outsell it, it needed to be better and cheaper to sell in large Quantity.

 

Oxford and Hornby are no longer competitors.

 

If they fix the grey, add the lights, it would easily fetch a £59.99 RRP... so this is a bargain, and I suspect not to be repeated.

 

 

 

 

"Good model of the MK3A....but not a great one" as someone I spoke to in my local model shop summed it up.

 

It doesn't prompt me to run out and replace my Mk3s, however, if I had the need for some more, I would go down the Oxford route.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[adb968008]

I had to kind of force myself just to take pictures of AC electrics in the 1990's let alone MK3s...

but here's one taken at Heaton Norris Junction, waiting for 3442 The Great Marquess to pass through following it's return from Fort William, just as it's owner died, so I can accurately date this picture as August 1989..

 

Whilst not a prize winner, and probably taken as a result of being trigger happy, it shows old style and new style branding on the same train / consist, and same livery.

Edited January 20, 2018 by adb968008

[tractor_37260]

I was all ready to buy a whole set of these but after watching the review, I'm holding off.

 

Not fully desperate for them but there's too many minus points - plus the fact they'll be running with my Swallow HST (new tooling) only so if the colours don't match...

 

If the oxford rail / Hornby merger is true then I'd be better off waiting anyway as they may solve the niggles like the toilet glazing, silver window surrounds and such.

 

Still, a very nice coach.  Just not quite what I'm looking for.

 

All issues considered, these first released Ox Rail Mk3's are the loco hauled variant with buffers, there are other differences also. so not really suitable to run with Swallow HST power cars, the miss-match of colours would also be very obvious................... 

[tractor_37260]

I had to kind of force myself just to take pictures of AC electrics in the 1990's let alone MK3s...

but here's one taken at Heaton Norris Junction, waiting for 3442 The Great Marquess to pass through following it's return from Fort William, just as it's owner died, so I can accurately date this picture as August 1989..

 

Whilst not a prize winner, it shows old style and new style branding on the same train / consist, and same livery.IMG_0038s.jpg

 

Good example showing only the brandings/no's are different, the Grey shades being the same...............

Edited January 20, 2018 by tractor_37260

[Roy Langridge]

It doesn't prompt me to run out and replace my Mk3s, however, if I had the need for some more, I would go down the Oxford route.

 

Cheers,

Mick

That about sums up where I am at. My Hornby blue/grey sets will remain, but me Scotrail order will also remain.

 

The absence of lights nearly had me cancelling, but the bogies being ready saved it.

 

Roy

[Scottish-Exile]

Just wondering if anyone in the know can better clarify this statement on the Oxford Rail website:

 

The coaches will be produced over time as part of a correctly numbered series of coaches. Each coach being based at the same depot and being found in a typical service during the period the livery covers. So you can add future releases to form a full train service.

 

I'm looking at the ScotRail livery, where there is a CO, FO and TSO announced. Does the above mean that there will be future announcements/releases of further numbered variants?

 

Don't want to buy just 3, then find no future numbers are released and the originals sold out.

 

For the Virgin west coast there are also just 3 variants announced so far. The Inter City Swallow lists 7 variants, comprising 2 FO, 2 RFM & 3 TSO, so enought to make a 6 coach train given you wouldn't want 2 RFM's.

[MRDBLUE17]

I think these look good. I will be getting3 if the Stobart livery ones as an easy route for debranding for the flood ex coaches for the Maryport/ Workington Service.

 

Cheers

Mark

[Market65]

Hi. I’ve just got back from Rails, and a purchase of two SO’s, and an FO. The end steps, funnily enough are solidly attached to all three of them, but I did have a different problem.

I decided to try shorter tension lock couplers, whilst I get hold of some Kadees. On pulling out, carefully, one of the pre fitted tension lock couplers, the CCU fell apart. It turns out that the little spring had disengaged itself on, despite great care, pulling out that tension lock coupler.

I decided to completely dismantle the SO. Before doing so I had to carefully pull out the ETH cable from each end. Then the body could be unclipped from the chassis. I then unscrewed the seat unit - one screw at each end with one in the middle. I placed the screws carefully in a tray. Then, on lifting up the seat unit, I could see both how small and delicate the springs are. So, with a bit of foul language, I was able to get the spring back in each end of the CCU. I decided to apply, with the greatest of care, the smallest drop of glue on those ends of the spring where it attaches at each end of the CCU so that it, hopefully, will not come off it again. I then did the same with other one as a precautionary measure.

Then it was a case of reassembly, in reverse order. The ETH cable plugs in the ends without the need for any glue. I was then able to try a short Bachman tension lock coupler, which has closed up the gap between the coaches by about half of what it was.

The Kadees will, hopefully, enable the gangways to kiss on straight track.

 

Regards,

 

Rob.

[kintbury jon]

These coaches do look good and I agree that the ends look great but to me the lack of silver lining around the windows really makes them stand out. I hope they sort this out for the next batch.

[YesTor]

These coaches do look good and I agree that the ends look great but to me the lack of silver lining around the windows really makes them stand out. I hope they sort this out for the next batch.

 

I think this has been covered already in that not all Mk 3s had silver window surrounds...

[ThaneofFife]

the price is faintly ridiculous in 2018.  a proper bargain for what it is but I too will remain in the holding off camp because of the colour debate on the light grey, non-sans CDL lights, lack of lights, no smoking beer mats, oversized couplers from the box, big avoidable toilet window faux par.

 

if I was in the market for brand new "additional" coaches not replacements then its a no brainer as the old Hornby versions are no cheaper really but I don't think these are up there quite enough to warrant buying as replacements just yet - not when you look at the close comparisons to the Hornby/lima old tooling versions when frankly there is little in it unless youre always 12in away from them and such detail becomes evident!   Shows how good the old models were for their time......I think the Lima Executive versions of Inter-City were the bobbins......they looked very nice. Id have been happy with those updated with tinted glazing better end detail, correct roof moulding and the ETH jumpers.

 

Plus points on the Oxford mk3s that I do like are the end details lighting provisions and gangway representation which is partly inset into the end of the coach just as Jouef managed to get right on their ageing mk3s over 40 years ago.  Pity they don't articulate in and out.  the tinted glazing and the ETH connections and sockets.  brake discs too look nice. 

 

now these are out what effect if any will they have on used prices for lima and Hornby on ebay??

[lyneux]

Is it just me who is finding the comparison between the Oxford Mk3as and the Lima and Hornby Mk3s a bit strange?

 

The fact of the matter is, there are significant visual differences between the Mk3a and Mk3 starting with the roof vents that are not easy to change without quite a bit of cutting/filling/filling. Before you mention the buffers, electrical connections, under-frame detail differences etc.

 

So the comparison isn't really valid. We should really be comparing these to the Jouef Mk3.

 

For Mk3as, these look pretty good for the price (bar the door profile around the droplight as pointed out by Jon on post 801). Not owning any Mk3as (although lots of Hornby and Lima Mk3s), I'm considering a couple of rakes for a future WCML layout.

 

Guy

[wombatofludham]

Well I'm going to be replacing all my Lima Mk3s with these and the HST variants when Oxford start on them, so those of you who seem to be umming and ahhing, there'll be some cheap Lima Mk3s on the Bay of Thief soon. I've ordered a silver very fine nib marker to improve the window presentation, not the most difficult of jobs.

 

To be honest I suspect the lack of silver window rims is as much to do with not having to pay a Chinese wage slave to pick them out in order to keep within the target price and as for the grey, it's less offensive than Hornby's sweetcorn vomit colour which has never convinced me as being even approximately correct, it looks closer to GWR or early BR cream than Inter-City beige.

[lyneux]

 I've ordered a silver very fine nib marker to improve the window presentation, not the most difficult of jobs.

 

This was my thought too Mark. Or even just masking them off and using a fine paintbrush shouldn't be too hard. Unfortunately though, it looks as though (unlike the Shawplan etched frames) there is no divider between the inner and outer frame - it's all just one piece. So whatever correction is made, getting the silver line straight could be problematic.

 

I'm not that bothered about the door locking lights either as they should be reasonably easy to remove (although patch-painting exec dark grey will be required).

 

Guy

[43179]

Is it just me who is finding the comparison between the Oxford Mk3as and the Lima and Hornby Mk3s a bit strange?

 

So the comparison isn't really valid. We should really be comparing these to the Jouef Mk3.

 

Guy

Or better still - compare them to the real things

Jon 

[ThaneofFife]

Is it just me who is finding the comparison between the Oxford Mk3as and the Lima and Hornby Mk3s a bit strange?

 

The fact of the matter is, there are significant visual differences between the Mk3a and Mk3 starting with the roof vents that are not easy to change without quite a bit of cutting/filling/filling. Before you mention the buffers, electrical connections, under-frame detail differences etc.

 

So the comparison isn't really valid. We should really be comparing these to the Jouef Mk3.

 

For Mk3as, these look pretty good for the price (bar the door profile around the droplight as pointed out by Jon on post 801). Not owning any Mk3as (although lots of Hornby and Lima Mk3s), I'm considering a couple of rakes for a future WCML layout.

 

Guy

 

When the Oxford HST trailers come along would it still not be a valid comparison to the lima/Hornby coaches as frankly the only key visual differences are likely to be the vents and the absence of buffers.  Its perfectly acceptable to compare with whats already available -most folk know and appreciate the differences without being spoon fed them but the point is the basic coach template is the same.

 

   Talk about picking nits...............  

Edited January 21, 2018 by ThaneofFife

[Pedro32]

I’ve got two of the new releases and think they’re a good entry to start with and over time I hope Oxford Rail include lighting as standard and produce HST variants as well.

 

I’ve sold my two sets of Hornby Swallow livery Mk3’s and I’ll be upgrading my initial Oxford rail purchases with interior lighting from train tech and populate them with some cheap EBay seated passengers. I’m very impressed with the initial model release and favourable price to the extent I may even order another six car set (once the remaining swallow models are released). I’ve considered cancelling my Bachmann Mk2f order on the basis of cost. Not quite decided yet mind...I digress..

 

I do get other members viewpoints on lack of lighting and colour accuracy. Every modeller to their own. Let’s see what else Oxford announce soon..

Edited January 21, 2018 by Pedro32