KRModels announce a GT3 Model

[PMP]

Thank you very much, i appreciate the order book will need to close soon, and I feel that displaying the CADs in good time may increase sales. Including a potential order from myself.

[KR Models]

17 minutes ago, PMP said:

Thank you very much, i appreciate the order book will need to close soon, and I feel that displaying the CADs in good time may increase sales. Including a potential order from myself.

 

I just want to make sure it's right before I release it on here, I get savaged enough on here as it is, the blood is coming through the bandages.  

[chris p bacon]

1 minute ago, KR Models said:

I get savaged enough on here as it is, the blood is coming through the bandages.

 

I'd actually say the questioning has been pretty lightweight so far 

 

The real test will be if there is a delay or cost increase, or both.

 

 

[Ryde-on-time]

11 minutes ago, KR Models said:

 

I just want to make sure it's right before I release it on here, I get savaged enough on here as it is, the blood is coming through the bandages.  

It’s obvious you like playing the victim and I am staggered at you attitude

 

If you were to employ someone, perhaps a project manager to oversee a building extension, would you just keep handing money over to so someone unknown, with no known relevant experience, promising the earth, with no physical address to trace them, showing little evidence of progress and who gets aggressive when questioned?

 

KRmodels is you, so questions are going to be partly about you

[Steamport Southport]

3 hours ago, RLWP said:

 

And as you probably already know, that's likely to be one and the same. If he is using an agency to do the CAD work and a manufacturer in another country, he wouldn't need premises

 

And from what I can make out, the PO box IS his trading address, this is how it is done in Canada

 

And really, I don't know why I'm bothering. I think I'll go and find my pitchfork and light my flaming torch - I haven't been to a good lynching in ages

 

Richard

 

But I believe that practice is illegal in the UK. PO Boxes have been virtually eliminated in the UK for some time apart from government ones and L69 catalogue and retailers  (Littlewoods, QVC, etc).

 

Even traders using them have to put a "proper" address on all correspondence. That was to stop criminals using them. Again we aren't saying that anyone is a crook. Just that some of the ways of doing things are different in the UK.

 

 

Jason

[KR Models]

53 minutes ago, chris p bacon said:

 

I'd actually say the questioning has been pretty lightweight so far 

 

The real test will be if there is a delay or cost increase, or both.

 

 

 

I can guarantee there will be no cost increase at this stage.  However, if we do decide to do a 2nd run, then I don't know.  As is stands today we have no delays, the project is moving along just on time.  Tooling is scheduled to begin in July and run till the end of the year with production set to start in the new year.

[KR Models]

8 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

But I believe that practice is illegal in the UK. PO Boxes have been virtually eliminated in the UK for some time apart from government ones and L69 catalogue and retailers  (Littlewoods, QVC, etc).

 

Even traders using them have to put a "proper" address on all correspondence. That was to stop criminals using them. Again we aren't saying that anyone is a crook. Just that some of the ways of doing things are different in the UK.

 

 

Jason

Sole traders are allowed to use PO Boxes in the UK, I used one for 13 years as a LTD company in a former life, we still had the LTD company registered address which was our accountant's office. 

[Colin_McLeod]

I've heard all I need to hear.

 

I'll take my chances on e bay if they become available and get a good review. I might buy one from KR Models direct if they have any left and Keith is prepared to sell it to me.

 

 

Good luck with the project Keith. I genuinely hope that it works out for you and your customers.

 

[Littlethorpe]

From Companies House Website regarding setting up a LImited Company....

 

"Your registered office address is where official communications will be sent, for example letters from Companies House.

The address must be:

a physical address in the UK

in the same country your company is registered in, for example a company registered in Scotland must have a registered office address in Scotland

You can use a PO Box. You must still include a physical address and postcode.

You can use your home address or the address of the person who will manage your Corporation Tax.

Your company address will be publicly available on the online register."

 

Looks like everyone is correct. Time to give him a break I think, nobody has to order from him if they don't wish to. He hasn't done himself any favours with the (apparent) tone of some of his Posts but that is always the problem with Forums & Social Media. Best just to stick to factual Posts.

 

I will certainly be ordering an N Gauge GT3 if it gets the go-ahead. Saw a superb scratch-built N Gauge version on one of the layouts at the GCR Event yesterday.

 

David

[truffy]

2 hours ago, KR Models said:

 

I was just correcting a few errors yesterday with the factory and as soon as we have completed CAD drawings I will publish them here.  I will also publish the EP samples too.  The order book will have to close soon as I need to order the sound decoders from ESU.

I will wait until we have the EP samples before deciding...but I don't do sound anyway.

[Hilux5972]

I’m so looking forward to the day I have this locomotive running on my layout, and watching everyone on here who is vilifying him eat their words, and hopefully apologise for the harsh words said and accusations thrown at him! 

[cctransuk]

5 minutes ago, Hilux5972 said:

I’m so looking forward to the day I have this locomotive running on my layout, and watching everyone on here who is vilifying him eat their words, and hopefully apologise for the harsh words said and accusations thrown at him! 

 

Now there's bold words - I too hope that you don't have cause to eat your words.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[truffy]

22 minutes ago, Hilux5972 said:

I’m so looking forward to the day I have this locomotive running on my layout, and watching everyone on here who is vilifying him eat their words, and hopefully apologise for the harsh words said and accusations thrown at him! 

Perhaps you need to take a lie down, dear? There’s nothing wrong, let alone vilifying, about seeking clarity on an unknown entity and a product that is, for all intents and purposes, vapourware. I look forward to seeing it on the TruffyTrack. Time will tell.  

[KR Models]

10 hours ago, Littlethorpe said:

From Companies House Website regarding setting up a LImited Company....

 

"Your registered office address is where official communications will be sent, for example letters from Companies House.

The address must be:

a physical address in the UK

in the same country your company is registered in, for example a company registered in Scotland must have a registered office address in Scotland

You can use a PO Box. You must still include a physical address and postcode.

You can use your home address or the address of the person who will manage your Corporation Tax.

Your company address will be publicly available on the online register."

 

Looks like everyone is correct. Time to give him a break I think, nobody has to order from him if they don't wish to. He hasn't done himself any favours with the (apparent) tone of some of his Posts but that is always the problem with Forums & Social Media. Best just to stick to factual Posts.

 

I will certainly be ordering an N Gauge GT3 if it gets the go-ahead. Saw a superb scratch-built N Gauge version on one of the layouts at the GCR Event yesterday.

 

David

 

We are not a PLC or a LTD company, therefore won't be listed with companies house.

Edited June 17, 2019 by KR Models

[KR Models]

9 hours ago, truffy said:

I will wait until we have the EP samples before deciding...but I don't do sound anyway.

 

there is the DCC ready version Nigel.  

[KR Models]

6 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

Now there's bold words - I too hope that you don't have cause to eat your words.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

It's gonna happen, progress is moving in the right direction.

[GWR-fan]

Keith,

          I daresay that you and David Jones have similar abrasive personalities.  A response from you regarding what you would really like to say to your critics is indicative of some one who has a short temper.  Right from the start you offered relatively poorly detailed CAD's plus a basic website using a low cost domain server.  You refused to reveal any of your past manufacturing history and only when researched by others you claimed Scalecast as a previous company although a search on Google shows the Canadian website blog has had no activity for nearly two years.  Do you still retain ownership in the company or was it sold or failed?   I am not asking personal questions only those related to your business experience as recent events have cast a shroud on your funding method.

 

You refuse to provide a mail address other than a P.O. box and ask others to provide their home addresses and yet it is you wanting the money from these people, not the other way round.   Only now after the collapse of DJM do you start responding to questions critical of your project as no doubt you do not want to detract potential fence sitters who have not made up their minds as to funding the project.

 

A question was asked at Warley from memory apparently back at the initial launch about the potential success of the project and your apparent offhand response was if you do not succeed then you will not have a model GT3 to run on your railway (railroad?).  I feel this a rather naive response as the project is not about you but the hundreds of crowd funders who will be financing your dream.

 

As yet you have provided a basic CAD (apparently a more detailed CAD and tooling to follow), a basic website,  a Canadian P.O. box address, little to no information on your previous business experience, claimed annonymity and yet you want several hundred crowd funders to take you on your word and face value.  You state that the shipment will go to a U.K. address to be distributed and posted worldwide.  As yet you do not state the location of that place nor the manner in which the goods will be handled.  Will you travel to the UK at the time and personally, singlehandedly manage and handle the posting of these models.  A recent debacle with Locomotion showed how an undermanned handling/distribution method resulted in numerous packages being sent to wrong addresses or multiple items sent when only a single purchase was made. This is a project no doubt exceeding 100,00 pounds in value and yet you offer just the basic details and seem to believe that you are doing the customer a favour by offering the locomotive RTR.

 

I previously suggested that you need to be more open with both your funders and your critics as you need to instill confidence in your public.  The GT3 is your first model and you have hinted that there may well be more projects in the future.  Critics may not necessarily want a GT3 but there may be future projects that may appeal to them.  Your somewhat abrasive personality under fire will not build confidence with your critics and hints that you and David Jones have a lot in common as regards personality. You have not responded to previous posts from me so I do not anticipate an answer to my posting.

 

When David Jones came under fire, he retaliated personally or used his support base to counter critics as merely trolls, eventually taking all information inhouse on his website and restricting distribution of information to only funders of his projects.  I do see the day and perhaps quite soon (once you are fully funded) that you will stop posting on RMweb and will provide information only on you website.  Of cause,  this will not be inexpensive as you will not get the free publicity that you do on this site and will need a webmaster to set up your site to provide information other than the very basic site that you now have.

 

Initially you were somewhat helpful to responses on this thread as you needed to build up your funder base but as the critics started questioning the details and the logistics of the project you became very defensive and to my mind abusive or simply ignored questions from those who were not funders of the project.  I understand that you have invested personally in the project with your money and your time and want the project to succeed,  however, the entrepreneur (showmanship) side of you seemingly ignores the fact that people are handing over large sums of money and want confidence and reassurance, not abusive responses.  You really need to bite your tongue when answering your critics as it is you wanting the funding not the other way around.

 

I really do wish you success with this and future projects, however, you really need to understand that your funding method requires a degree of professionalism, frankness and openness from you and not the negative rather childish responses you have provided to your critics.  You may have noticed that your continued reluctance to provide other than basic information has increased the number of critics in this thread.  When you are selling vapourware you need to build confidence in your customer as he needs proof of something tangible in the future other than your personal assurances or guarantees.  A guarantee is worthless when the guarantor can only be contacted through a post office box in a foreign country.    At least if the funder is gambling on a horse race or a football game he is able to research his team's performance and the team's chance of winning a game.  With your company you are increasingly reluctant to provide previous business experience or company details other than a P.O. box.  I am sure that if it was you handing over the funding to me then you would want similar details from me as to my previous business experience and my company details in being able to pursue a very costly project through to completion.

[KR Models]

2 hours ago, GWR-fan said:

Keith,

          I daresay that you and David Jones have similar abrasive personalities.  A response from you regarding what you would really like to say to your critics is indicative of some one who has a short temper.  Right from the start you offered relatively poorly detailed CAD's plus a basic website using a low cost domain server.  You refused to reveal any of your past manufacturing history and only when researched by others you claimed Scalecast as a previous company although a search on Google shows the Canadian website blog has had no activity for nearly two years.  Do you still retain ownership in the company or was it sold or failed?   I am not asking personal questions only those related to your business experience as recent events have cast a shroud on your funding method.

 

You refuse to provide a mail address other than a P.O. box and ask others to provide their home addresses and yet it is you wanting the money from these people, not the other way round.   Only now after the collapse of DJM do you start responding to questions critical of your project as no doubt you do not want to detract potential fence sitters who have not made up their minds as to funding the project.

 

A question was asked at Warley from memory apparently back at the initial launch about the potential success of the project and your apparent offhand response was if you do not succeed then you will not have a model GT3 to run on your railway (railroad?).  I feel this a rather naive response as the project is not about you but the hundreds of crowd funders who will be financing your dream.

 

As yet you have provided a basic CAD (apparently a more detailed CAD and tooling to follow), a basic website,  a Canadian P.O. box address, little to no information on your previous business experience, claimed annonymity and yet you want several hundred crowd funders to take you on your word and face value.  You state that the shipment will go to a U.K. address to be distributed and posted worldwide.  As yet you do not state the location of that place nor the manner in which the goods will be handled.  Will you travel to the UK at the time and personally, singlehandedly manage and handle the posting of these models.  A recent debacle with Locomotion showed how an undermanned handling/distribution method resulted in numerous packages being sent to wrong addresses or multiple items sent when only a single purchase was made. This is a project no doubt exceeding 100,00 pounds in value and yet you offer just the basic details and seem to believe that you are doing the customer a favour by offering the locomotive RTR.

 

I previously suggested that you need to be more open with both your funders and your critics as you need to instill confidence in your public.  The GT3 is your first model and you have hinted that there may well be more projects in the future.  Critics may not necessarily want a GT3 but there may be future projects that may appeal to them.  Your somewhat abrasive personality under fire will not build confidence with your critics and hints that you and David Jones have a lot in common as regards personality. You have not responded to previous posts from me so I do not anticipate an answer to my posting.

 

When David Jones came under fire, he retaliated personally or used his support base to counter critics as merely trolls, eventually taking all information inhouse on his website and restricting distribution of information to only funders of his projects.  I do see the day and perhaps quite soon (once you are fully funded) that you will stop posting on RMweb and will provide information only on you website.  Of cause,  this will not be inexpensive as you will not get the free publicity that you do on this site and will need a webmaster to set up your site to provide information other than the very basic site that you now have.

 

Initially you were somewhat helpful to responses on this thread as you needed to build up your funder base but as the critics started questioning the details and the logistics of the project you became very defensive and to my mind abusive or simply ignored questions from those who were not funders of the project.  I understand that you have invested personally in the project with your money and your time and want the project to succeed,  however, the entrepreneur (showmanship) side of you seemingly ignores the fact that people are handing over large sums of money and want confidence and reassurance, not abusive responses.  You really need to bite your tongue when answering your critics as it is you wanting the funding not the other way around.

 

I really do wish you success with this and future projects, however, you really need to understand that your funding method requires a degree of professionalism, frankness and openness from you and not the negative rather childish responses you have provided to your critics.  You may have noticed that your continued reluctance to provide other than basic information has increased the number of critics in this thread.  When you are selling vapourware you need to build confidence in your customer as he needs proof of something tangible in the future other than your personal assurances or guarantees.  A guarantee is worthless when the guarantor can only be contacted through a post office box in a foreign country.    At least if the funder is gambling on a horse race or a football game he is able to research his team's performance and the team's chance of winning a game.  With your company you are increasingly reluctant to provide previous business experience or company details other than a P.O. box.  I am sure that if it was you handing over the funding to me then you would want similar details from me as to my previous business experience and my company details in being able to pursue a very costly project through to completion.

 

Thanks for the comments.  

[truffy]

5 hours ago, KR Models said:

 

there is the DCC ready version Nigel.  

Thanks Keith, I was already aware. I was simply noting that the DCC sound ‘drawbridge’ wasn’t an issue for me. 

[adb968008]

On 16/06/2019 at 04:26, KR Models said:

So what benefit would be my home address be?  Can I have yours?

I really do hope you have everyone’s who has ordered.

 

[Colin_McLeod]

3 hours ago, KR Models said:

 

Thanks for the comments.  

 

 A very comprehensive reply  (NOT) to GWR-fan's very good post.  Says it all really.

 

Keith I'm afraid that your response has underlined many of GWR-fan's points and may even have cost you a few more orders.

 

You have people who have already invested and  for you and they I hope this project works.  You also have people, as GWR-fan points out, "sitting on the fence".   They want a GT3 but have not yet taken the plunge and sent you money.  I would have thought that you would want to persuade them to invest, but instead you are saying all the things that would put them off.

 

 Please catch yourself on and start doing some positive public relations if you want to be known as a good reliable supplier of model railway items.

 

 

Also Keith on a cautious note: as you are not a limited company you could be personally liable for the debts of KR Models if it fails.  All the more reason not to alienate customers /creditors.

 

You gave your licence conditions as a reason to use a PO address yet when we check there is no licence issued either in your name or at that address.  You have ignored at least two posts that pointed that out.

 

 

While Widnes Model Center may have misinterpreted your fund raising activities for MR research, it was not just being 'personal' . When investing, crowd funding, call it what you will, into an organisationthat appears to be a "one man band" then the health of that "one man" is very important.  The Little Loco Company is a case in point.  As a one man band holding other people's money, do you have life/illness insurance so that in the event that anything happens to you the debts of KR models can be taken care of?

 

I and others, have tried to be helpful but I'm done with that now. The ball is in your court.

 

Best wishes for a successful project.

 

Colin

[jjb1970]

There is a simple answer to avoiding awkward questions - go to the bank and get a conventional business financing agreement to fund your business plans. Then you can quite legitimately tell customers to take it or leave it when the model arrives and tell anybody poking their noses into how you run things that it's none of their business and if the bank aren't happy with anything they'll let you know. If you want customers to fund your business by providing cheap financing without the strings attached of a bank loan and to underwrite the risk of the project then I think those people have every right to ask questions, however awkward they might be.

[chris p bacon]

10 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

If you want customers to fund your business by providing cheap   free and unsecured  financing

 

There you go, just a small typo...

Edited June 17, 2019 by chris p bacon

[jjb1970]

Well, I suppose I can't really blame anybody for opting out of having to justify a business plan to investors or a financial institution and pay normal finance and business banking fees and under write their own risk if they can opt out of it all by getting the customer to do it all

 

 

[GWR-fan]

A unique prototype is an ideal candidate for a crowd funded project and I believe that Keith with all his enthusiasm for the project will see it through to completion.  Understandably,  he is protective of his "baby" and intolerant of any criticism of both the project and himself personally.  It is indeed unfortunate that the DJM saga has cast an evil spell on his project but it seems that he has sufficient interested parties to see the project finished and hopefully lay the ground work for further models based on the success of the GT3.  No doubt the second time around with his next model will be an easier pathway for him both personally and financially.