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KRModels announce a GT3 Model


micklner
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10 hours ago, adb968008 said:

may be the wording was grammatically misinterpreted, and subsequently used against common sense logic.

 

Going both ways yes, did it operate trains both ways, probably not... and particularly in the case of gt3 as prolonged reverse running wouldn't give the loco the airflow it needs.

 

However it does detract from the point... it had red tail lamps on the front for those situations (such as running LE from depot to station and vv)... so the model should have them in red ( not white). Whether they were ever used is a completely different point.. indeed the only LE images Ive seem it had a standard tail lamp placed on it.

 

 

1 hour ago, zr2498 said:

This all seems so logical. Before I start with colour changes, rewiring and CV changes it would perhaps be great to come up with a plausible solution before snipping any wires.

a) Red instead of white lights on the front above the buffer beam, for short movements in reverse (even if not used in practice). Normally OFF, would come ON in REVERSE as part of directional lighting function.

b) Ability to turn tender tail lights off when running forwards (operational) and coupled up to stock

c) Assume a standard white oil lamp used on a lamp bracket on the tender when in reverse? Would this be done in practice? Could do with some advice on this one but in reality for the odd occasion when this is done on a layout we are hardly likely to take lamps on and off!

 

The Rules would require it to carry an ordinary tail lamp on whichever was the rear end when running light - electric tail lamps were generally (and rightly in most cases) considered to be unreliable and in any case weren't much use in daylight as they were difficult to see.  The first breakthrough towards electric tail lights (or red blinds) came on electric MU trains but it took many years for reliable electric tail lights to be developed and become acceptable.  Even as late as the 1990s some trains had a remarkably limited time in terms of battery life to keep the tail lights illuminated if there was no overhead/3rd rail supply.

 

An important reason for fitting red lights on modern (in late 1950s/early '60s terms) traction was that it enabled them to easily show a danger signal to warn Signalmen and other trains as required by various Rules (e.g Rule 180).  However it seems more than likely that there was hope of a move to using them as tail lights but back to the reliability question - which had probably first arisen back in the 1930s when early experience led to a requirement to carry an oil tail lamp on the GWR diesel cars instead of using the inbuilt red light.

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42 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

 

The Rules would require it to carry an ordinary tail lamp on whichever was the rear end when running light - electric tail lamps were generally (and rightly in most cases) considered to be unreliable and in any case weren't much use in daylight as they were difficult to see.  The first breakthrough towards electric tail lights (or red blinds) came on electric MU trains but it took many years for reliable electric tail lights to be developed and become acceptable.  Even as late as the 1990s some trains had a remarkably limited time in terms of battery life to keep the tail lights illuminated if there was no overhead/3rd rail supply.

 

An important reason for fitting red lights on modern (in late 1950s/early '60s terms) traction was that it enabled them to easily show a danger signal to warn Signalmen and other trains as required by various Rules (e.g Rule 180).  However it seems more than likely that there was hope of a move to using them as tail lights but back to the reliability question - which had probably first arisen back in the 1930s when early experience led to a requirement to carry an oil tail lamp on the GWR diesel cars instead of using the inbuilt red light.

Great explanation of the need for the standard tail lamps, hence the lamp brackets if running light engine.

Please excuse my lack of knowledge. How about the reverse movements what would be showing on the tender. Would that be a white oil lamp?

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Thanks Mike, so in practical terms, what is probably more realistic for the modeller is to just turn both the white (should be red) front lights, and the rear red lights off permanently.

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3 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Thanks Mike, so in practical terms, what is probably more realistic for the modeller is to just turn both the white (should be red) front lights, and the rear red lights off permanently.

I think that makes a lot of sense n the model railway context (unless you are planning a disaster scenario) but in any case I think lights are probably best controlled by switches rather than automatically changing with direction in order to avoid such nonsenses as a red light on the rear end of a loco pulling a train.

3 hours ago, zr2498 said:

Great explanation of the need for the standard tail lamps, hence the lamp brackets if running light engine.

Please excuse my lack of knowledge. How about the reverse movements what would be showing on the tender. Would that be a white oil lamp?

There are several factors at work here.  If a movement takes place outside what are known as 'Station Limits'. (which is an operational classification which in fact has nothing to do with the presence or otherwise of a station) then any movement requires head and tail lights.  Similarly lights are required for movements made on running lines within Station Limits but if short distances were involved and the movement was unlikely to standstill for any longer than it took to reverse it was often the practice - albeit technically incorrect - not to change the lamps between the two ends of a loco etc when it reversed.  It was also not unheard of for such moves to sometimes take place in daylight without any lamps being carried at all - but that was rather naughty and could be very dangerous.

 

The easy way to think of it is that if the movement will take place over any running line between two different signal boxes then lamps, correctly placed, are essential - headlight on the front exhibiting the appropriate code  (back in the days of such things) and a tail lamp on the back.

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I saw for the 1st time today, GT3, running on the T4U test rack. An impressive model, and I'm glad I've ordered one. But those lights - absolutely toy-like gimmicks in my opinion. Remind me of a BMW or Audi driver who has to have DRLs, headlights (often on full beam), foglights, and anything else he can find, all switched on at the same time, at any time of day. No BR diesel ever used (in that era) electric lighting that was visible in daylight. As Mike said above, all tail lamps (only used when no rolling stock was behind) HAD to be oil lamps - which the light from is not visible in daylight. The signalman's duty was to observe the rear of the train for the presence of a lamp, which signified the end of the train.

1st job on mine, when it arrives (after testing of course) will be to lift the body off and rip out all the lights (and dcc wiring). The rubbish bin will be close by....

 

Stewart

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12 hours ago, stewartingram said:

I saw for the 1st time today, GT3, running on the T4U test rack. An impressive model, and I'm glad I've ordered one. But those lights - absolutely toy-like gimmicks in my opinion. Remind me of a BMW or Audi driver who has to have DRLs, headlights (often on full beam), foglights, and anything else he can find, all switched on at the same time, at any time of day. No BR diesel ever used (in that era) electric lighting that was visible in daylight. As Mike said above, all tail lamps (only used when no rolling stock was behind) HAD to be oil lamps - which the light from is not visible in daylight. The signalman's duty was to observe the rear of the train for the presence of a lamp, which signified the end of the train.

1st job on mine, when it arrives (after testing of course) will be to lift the body off and rip out all the lights (and dcc wiring). The rubbish bin will be close by....

 

Stewart

That is up to you, of course, but I wouldn’t rip anything out just yet. The lead for the tail lights can be unplugged easily. Open and closed headcode discs (actually ovals) enable the appropriate headcode to be displayed. I haven’t yet tackled the front tail lights. They are powered by one of four wires on a plug and could be cut or pulled out.  Why I suggest not ripping everything out is that the wiring is spot on; it’s the PCB which is at fault. If, and there has been no word of it yet, a replacement PCB is produced, it would just be a matter of unplugging the wires, removing two screws, replacing the PCB and plugging everything back in.

 

Alternatively, if you don’t want the lights, you could just unplug all the connectors, which would be easily reversible.

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On 19/05/2021 at 09:07, Graham_Muz said:

ENGLISH ELECTRIC GT3 1961

 

The red fan is very prominent in that shot. It isn’t readily visible in the model but shine a torch on the front and it is there. One plus point to KR.

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On 22/05/2021 at 08:41, zr2498 said:

This all seems so logical. Before I start with colour changes, rewiring and CV changes it would perhaps be great to come up with a plausible solution before snipping any wires.

a) Red instead of white lights on the front above the buffer beam, for short movements in reverse (even if not used in practice). Normally OFF, would come ON in REVERSE as part of directional lighting function.

b) Ability to turn tender tail lights off when running forwards (operational) and coupled up to stock

c) Assume a standard white oil lamp used on a lamp bracket on the tender when in reverse? Would this be done in practice? Could do with some advice on this one but in reality for the odd occasion when this is done on a layout we are hardly likely to take lamps on and off!

 

 

I came up with a solution for my GT3 which I think would satisfy your requirements in my post of April 2nd on page 78, if it's of any help?

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19 hours ago, Wagonmaster said:

 

I came up with a solution for my GT3 which I think would satisfy your requirements in my post of April 2nd on page 78, if it's of any help?

Hi Wagonmaster, I am very interested in your lighting 'fix' as detailed in your post of 2nd April and would appreciate hearing your thoughts on a couple of points. Firstly, do you think that the re-wiring of the front tail lights as described will work in dc/analogue mode? I want to have the head code discs lighting up when running forwards and the lower front tail lights lighting when running in reverse.  Secondly, can you please clarify the cutting of the NF black wire close to the plug. I assume that the new extended wire is soldered to the loose end of the wire coming from the loco/tender connector before re-routing as described. This makes the original NF plug connection redundant.

Your advice will be most appreciated.

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, locoman462 said:

Your advice will be most appreciated.

It's very helpful of Wagonmaster to offer a fix, but any advice on fixing these issues should really come from @KR Models as cutting and altering the wiring will most likely negate your warranty. Whilst you may not be worried about this, there may be others following the advice who would be. 

 

Edited by chris p bacon
typo
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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, locoman462 said:

Hi Wagonmaster, I am very interested in your lighting 'fix' as detailed in your post of 2nd April and would appreciate hearing your thoughts on a couple of points. Firstly, do you think that the re-wiring of the front tail lights as described will work in dc/analogue mode? I want to have the head code discs lighting up when running forwards and the lower front tail lights lighting when running in reverse.  Secondly, can you please clarify the cutting of the NF black wire close to the plug. I assume that the new extended wire is soldered to the loose end of the wire coming from the loco/tender connector before re-routing as described. This makes the original NF plug connection redundant.

Your advice will be most appreciated.

 

 

Hi, unfortunately my 'fix' as described will only work for DCC as I am using the decoder for light switching and logic. You can modify GT3 to display your required lighting on dc/analogue, but it is different to my described wiring and will require the use of diodes and resistors.

 

I cut the NF wire close to the plug as I wanted as much cable as possible to re-route the wiring without fouling the tender body when it was replaced.

 

3 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

It's very helpful of Wagonmaster to offer a fix, but any advice on fixing these issues should really come from @KR Models as cutting and altering the wiring will most likely negate your warranty. Whilst you may not be worried about this, there may be others following the advice who would be. 

 

 

I did point out about voiding the warranty in my post.

Edited by Wagonmaster
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1 hour ago, Wagonmaster said:

 

Hi, unfortunately my 'fix' as described will only work for DCC as I am using the decoder for light switching and logic. You can modify GT3 to display your required lighting on dc/analogue, but it is different to my described wiring and will require the use of diodes and resistors.

 

I cut the NF wire close to the plug as I wanted as much cable as possible to re-route the wiring without fouling the tender body when it was replaced.

 

 

I did point out about voiding the warranty in my post.

Thanks Wagonmaster, I feared that might be the case. Appreciate your response to clear that up.

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Anyone else still waiting for their GT3 first run?

I pre ordered a DCC sound fitted model (well, paid the first installment) as early as March 2019 and haven't seen or heard of any delivery update.

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5 minutes ago, Lewi73050 said:

Anyone else still waiting for their GT3 first run?

I pre ordered a DCC sound fitted model (well, paid the first installment) as early as March 2019 and haven't seen or heard of any delivery update.

I'd get in contact with Michael if I were you, hopefully he can help you

 

[email protected]

 

 

Yesterday after 9 weeks, I finally got the sound chip for my model after I got a standard model instead.

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hi Lewi 
 

I’m still waiting for mine, it came out to NZ but was returned as the courier wouldn’t deliver to a PO Box…. Why they accepted it in the UK I don’t know. I’ve got a tracking number this time and it’s in transit, due in 2 weeks. 
 

get in touch with Michael, he should be able to sort it. 
 

Roger

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Rails of Sheffield has posted on their website this morning, that they will be stocking a limited number of the GT3s, from the second run, in dcc ready, dcc fitted and sound fitted forms. The update says they can be pre ordered from now with £30 deposit.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi, due to the joys of getting drunk, and, ordering stuff online whilst intoxicated, it turns out I ordered 2 gt3's. So if any one would like to buy my spare loco, I would be happy to sell it £150. It will be brand new and I will pay the postage. It's from the second batch.

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2 minutes ago, PieGuyRob said:

Hi, due to the joys of getting drunk, and, ordering stuff online whilst intoxicated, it turns out I ordered 2 gt3's. So if any one would like to buy my spare loco, I would be happy to sell it £150. It will be brand new and I will pay the postage. It's from the second batch.

Surely if you have ordered two by mistake you should be able to cancel one order and get a refund?

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2 minutes ago, PieGuyRob said:

Hi, due to the joys of getting drunk, and, ordering stuff online whilst intoxicated, it turns out I ordered 2 gt3's. So if any one would like to buy my spare loco, I would be happy to sell it £150. It will be brand new and I will pay the postage. It's from the second batch.

I can't offer to unload your extra loco, but as far as ordering while under the influence goes, some years back an RMwebber put in a winning ebay bid - for a Mercedes S Class. He had a real problem getting shot of it again!

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19 hours ago, PieGuyRob said:

Hi, due to the joys of getting drunk, and, ordering stuff online whilst intoxicated, it turns out I ordered 2 gt3's. So if any one would like to buy my spare loco, I would be happy to sell it £150. It will be brand new and I will pay the postage. It's from the second batch.

 

Turns out I forgot about Fathers day, so when it arrives, I got my dad a present!

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  • 4 weeks later...
2 hours ago, montyburns56 said:

 

BR. Vulcan Foundry 4-6-0 Gas Turbine locomotive No. GT3.

 

I particularly like this view, because it shows something quite obvious when you think about it but had never occurred to me - namely that the "boiler cladding" on this 4-6-0 would have hinged inspection doors.   It would have been preferable on safety grounds if the hinge had been towards the "smokebox" end rather than the cab end in case it ever came open in traffic (I had an Austin mini whose bonnet flew open on me once blocking forward vision - in the middle of Spaghetti Junction).

 

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8 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

 

(I had an Austin mini whose bonnet flew open on me once blocking forward vision - in the middle of Spaghetti Junction).

 

Totally off topic but so did I - on the M6 while overtaking a lorry. Managed to bend and tie the thing down and, passing Warrington, picked up a spare from the treasure trove near the station!

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