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phil gollin

Hornby 2020 range "reveal date" = 6th Jan

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My predictions: everything will still be 00 based and all of the TT froth will get put on ice until next year. 

 

If Hornby were rolling in money, then maybe TT could happen alongside 00, but they aren’t and to just abandon 00 would be suicidal. 

 

Roy

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Only 3 days until the big reveal.......

 

I’d be surprised if Hornby were to go into either TT or N, the payback would be measured in years / decades and could be a very slow burn.


Something to harness new entrants into the hobby has to be a winner.... entry level sets, along the lines of their “family” train set approach. (More railroad style, rather than wooden push along).

 

I agree about cameras on board your new HST etc. Plugging that into a wider world technology..... your fiddle yard isn’t the end of your layout...... Paddington is..... you drive from Henley on Thames, plug in modules and get to PDN in an hour......

 

Failing that, I’d like to see a new GWR Saint / 57xx (no top feed) / Collet restaurant carriages / K22 full brake!

 

Only 3 days..... no one has said why the announcement has been brought forward from 10am to 9am..... Is Simon Kohler doing a live feed?

 

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1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

Arguably true, but Hornby's international acquisitions mainly arose from those businesses becoming unsustainable individually. Are they, therefore, part of the solution, or part of the problem for Hornby?

 

In any case, this thread is really concerned with speculating/fantasizing over what Hornby might announce on Monday for the UK market.

 

John

 

 

 

Part of the problem in my view. Not the first time that a company has taken on other businesses that have ultimately been a burden rather than a benefit.

 

It could have been so different if they had been in a position to maximise the opportunities for these brands in their home markets. It would certainly have been better to take on Jouef when it first became available rather than let it go to Lima.

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3 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

That said, given the upturn in the fortunes of OO9, maybe better commercial opportunities for 12mm gauge might lie in 3' N/g to 4mm scale....and, they could sell it as a adjunct to OO rather than competing with themselves.

 

OO9 would be a mistake, they'd be treading on a lawn already colonised by other manufacturers, Bachmann, Heljan and Peco already offer OO9 product and Hornby might be seen as merely making a "me too" effort.  OO12 wouldn't look that different and might not catch the railway-buying publics attention.

 

But narrow gauge might be an interesting proposal in another scale.  O-16.5* might be a possibility, as it allows entry into 7mm scale that other manufacturers are making more "interesting" but is differentiated, quirky and is perhaps suitable for the older modeller :rolleyes:. They could even have Main-Range and Railroad variants too....      Mechanisms would be within Hornbys comfort range and it shouldn't be too difficult to produce suitable sleeper mouldings to go with their OO gauge track geometry.  And with Narrow Gauge we could see a viable resurgence in the use of Radius 1 curves!

 

Another thought, with careful selection of sleeper spacing/size and surface decoration, Hornby O-16.5 track could be promoted as suitable for OO light railway/industrial usage to accompany their Pecketts, Rustons and 0-4-0 starter blobs...

 

 

* And then there would be people looking at O-EM and O-P4 just to be different...

 

Edited by Hroth
Another thought...
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13 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

Part of the problem in my view. Not the first time that a company has taken on other businesses that have ultimately been a burden rather than a benefit.

 

It could have been so different if they had been in a position to maximise the opportunities for these brands in their home markets. It would certainly have been better to take on Jouef when it first became available rather than let it go to Lima.

and yet the Half Year report states the European business has had the highest growth of any part of the Group in 2019 (no doubt from a small base - it's a big market). And the numbers show it is the closest to being profitable. 

 

Maybe they've got it right this time around?

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38 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

OO9 would be a mistake, they'd be treading on a lawn already colonised by other manufacturers, Bachmann, Heljan and Peco already offer OO9 product and Hornby might be seen as merely making a "me too" effort.  OO12 wouldn't look that different and might not catch the railway-buying publics attention.

 

But narrow gauge might be an interesting proposal in another scale.  O-16.5* might be a possibility, as it allows entry into 7mm scale that other manufacturers are making more "interesting" but is differentiated, quirky and is perhaps suitable for the older modeller :rolleyes:. They could even have Main-Range and Railroad variants too....      Mechanisms would be within Hornbys comfort range and it shouldn't be too difficult to produce suitable sleeper mouldings to go with their OO gauge track geometry.  And with Narrow Gauge we could see a viable resurgence in the use of Radius 1 curves!

 

* And then there would be people looking at O-EM and O-P4 just to be different...

 

O-14 is the established true-scale combo for 2' gauge prototypes in 7mm scale.

 

I agree that O-16.5 might offer possibilities for Hornby in the event that they did decide to diversify. As you say, the mechanical synergies with OO would help in various ways. It wouldn't have any r-t-r opposition and would be practical to launch with a couple of locos and a limited range of stock in a way that (for instance) TT standard gauge would not.  

 

Bachmann USA seem to have done very nicely out of On30 for some years and I'm a little surprised that there has never been a move towards a UK equivalent. I therefore suspect Hornby might not be the most likely source. First r-t-r loco? Probably a Quarry Hunslet (and from Bachmann as they are already developing one for OO9). Second one? Who could resist a 7mm scale Double Fairlie?

 

John

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2 hours ago, Hroth said:

 

OO9 would be a mistake, they'd be treading on a lawn already colonised by other manufacturers, Bachmann, Heljan and Peco already offer OO9 product and Hornby might be seen as merely making a "me too" effort. 

 

 

I don’t think the “someone else is doing it” argument holds.  If that was the case, the other manufacturers wouldn’t be in or enter the OO market!  If anything, it lowers the barrier to entry and reduces the risk on producing something for that market as you can see that others have successfully sold into that market and expanded it.  The same duplication considerations that would apply to any OO loco will apply to an OO9 release.

 

The stronger argument for not going into that scale is that they don’t have the same extent of n gauge expertise that  Bachmann have through the Farish brand.

 

Would OO9 be a wow moment? Probably not - will it sell? Probably but not game changingly so.  

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2 hours ago, Hroth said:

 

OO9 would be a mistake, they'd be treading on a lawn already colonised by other manufacturers, Bachmann, Heljan and Peco already offer OO9 product and Hornby might be seen as merely making a "me too" effort.  OO12 wouldn't look that different and might not catch the railway-buying publics attention.

 

I’m not so sure. In 00, Bachmann, Heljan, Peco and others supply things which are compatible. There’s nothing strange about a Heljan loco hauling a Bachmann train on Peco track. We can now have a 009 Heljan loco hauling (with a bit of luck) Bachmann wagons on Peco track. It would be a reasonable move for Hornby to produce an item or two and much easier than it was for Bachmann, Peco and Heljan, which had to blaze the trail. Hornby’s tiny Ruston shows that Hornby is perfectly capable of producing a tiny loco.

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20 hours ago, MM1991 said:

Roco and Fleischmann already sell camera fitted loco's

 

 

 

Hi,

 

Interesting video. The in cab picture quality didn't seem that high and seemed a bit jerky.

I wonder if they slightly smoked the cab windows of the locos to make the camera less obvious when viewed from the side.

 

Regards

 

Nick

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49 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

I’m not so sure. In 00, Bachmann, Heljan, Peco and others supply things which are compatible. There’s nothing strange about a Heljan loco hauling a Bachmann train on Peco track. We can now have a 009 Heljan loco hauling (with a bit of luck) Bachmann wagons on Peco track. It would be a reasonable move for Hornby to produce an item or two and much easier than it was for Bachmann, Peco and Heljan, which had to blaze the trail. Hornby’s tiny Ruston shows that Hornby is perfectly capable of producing a tiny loco.

Yes, but Hornby at least like to think of themselves as producing everything needed for a model railway - which means an OO9 range means loco, rolling stock, track, and controller at the very least...

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37 minutes ago, eldomtom2 said:

Yes, but Hornby at least like to think of themselves as producing everything needed for a model railway - which means an OO9 range means loco, rolling stock, track, and controller at the very least..

But now your not thinking outside the box

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23 minutes ago, rovex said:

But now your not thinking outside the box

 

But "thinking outside the box" is soooooooooooo last-century management speak!

 

It'll be paradigm-shifts next....

 

Shall we run that one up the flagpole?

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Maybe Hornby have done a deal with Protocab to introduce a range of small batteries, in situ battery rechargers, CPUs and radio controllers under the Hornby imprint so that  we can, at last, leap into the 21st century and get away from rail conduction altogether.   I wish !

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2 minutes ago, 1ngram said:

Maybe Hornby have done a deal with Protocab to introduce a range of small batteries, in situ battery rechargers, CPUs and radio controllers under the Hornby imprint so that  we can, at last, leap into the 21st century and get away from rail conduction altogether.   I wish !


Well, that’s one way to go bust rapidly, I suppose.

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27 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

But "thinking outside the box" is soooooooooooo last-century management speak!

 

It'll be paradigm-shifts next....

 

Shall we run that one up the flagpole?


...or go back to the 70’s and see if a bubble rises to the top of the think tank.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

 

(of course if it were a real tank it might be a bit unfortunate)

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My take on the Simon Kohler teaser video is that the “2020” anniversary announcement has nothing to do with Hornby OO railways as we know them. Rather, it’s something completely new that may complement Hornby’s current products but not in a way be might expect. I’ve no idea what that might be, but I would imagine it’s something technology related that will appeal to kids of today who play computer games and watch videos on tablets, the aim being to encourage those kids to move on to Hornby model railways.

 

I’m sure there will also be the usual new tooling/product announcements as well as reliveries of existing models, but not linked specifically to “2020”.

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If Hornby are looking back over 100 year perhaps a SE&CR R1 as per the old Hornby Dublo/Wren  they may be able to reuse some of the H class work?

 

Martin

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5 hours ago, Hroth said:

 

OO9 would be a mistake, they'd be treading on a lawn already colonised by other manufacturers, Bachmann, Heljan and Peco already offer OO9 product and Hornby might be seen as merely making a "me too" effort.  OO12 wouldn't look that different and might not catch the railway-buying publics attention.

 

But narrow gauge might be an interesting proposal in another scale.  O-16.5* might be a possibility, as it allows entry into 7mm scale that other manufacturers are making more "interesting" but is differentiated, quirky and is perhaps suitable for the older modeller :rolleyes:. They could even have Main-Range and Railroad variants too....      Mechanisms would be within Hornbys comfort range and it shouldn't be too difficult to produce suitable sleeper mouldings to go with their OO gauge track geometry.  And with Narrow Gauge we could see a viable resurgence in the use of Radius 1 curves!

 

Another thought, with careful selection of sleeper spacing/size and surface decoration, Hornby O-16.5 track could be promoted as suitable for OO light railway/industrial usage to accompany their Pecketts, Rustons and 0-4-0 starter blobs...

 

 

* And then there would be people looking at O-EM and O-P4 just to be different...

 

Don't Hornby own Joueff? Joueff make 009?

 

Just a thought.

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3 hours ago, trevor7598 said:

'City of Salford' is surely a contender this year.

 

I would also expect an LMS 1946 black version of SWS.

 

 

 

Jason

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If they went for a full VR planning system that would be cool. Like the old virtual railway program they had but crossed with anyrail. You could move around the layout and see if you can reach bits before buying any materials 

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6 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

Part of the problem in my view. Not the first time that a company has taken on other businesses that have ultimately been a burden rather than a benefit.

 

It could have been so different if they had been in a position to maximise the opportunities for these brands in their home markets. It would certainly have been better to take on Jouef when it first became available rather than let it go to Lima.

I bet they sell more HO & N models than they do OO simply because there is a bigger worldwide market. Same applies to Bachmann. Especially in the latter case, OO is relatively small beer.

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While I don't doubt that VR and VR enhanced model railway is on the way, you really want to leave that to some start up to perfect and then buy them out and add it to your portfolio.

 

Hornby's resources are somewhat limited, even dangerous, and all-new inventions cost a lot to development and mostly often fail to take off. History is full of more failures than successes. 

 

Hornby is trying to do two things right now, 1) get the company back to profit, 2) get new blood into the hobby. And they are both two very different and big fronts. They should focus primarily on 1. Which means play it safe and stick to known routes, although if areas like TTS class 66s bring in new blood at the same time, so much the better.

For 2, Hornby is not alone, Bachmann need new blood as much as they do. They could concert effort here. And while I agree as a long term item, this needs to be faced, it is not the immediate problem that they face. 

 

One area they could explore with Corgi and Airfix now that they have a Warner Brothers license, are DC figures. Especially as 2020 sees Wonder Woman 84 coming out. And what about 1/76th scale Harry Potter and DC figures to do with the trains?

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2 hours ago, eldomtom2 said:

Yes, but Hornby at least like to think of themselves as producing everything needed for a model railway - which means an OO9 range means loco, rolling stock, track, and controller at the very least...

Explain the Hornby-arnold 5BEL set.

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10 minutes ago, Denbridge said:

Explain the Hornby-arnold 5BEL set.


Arnold has N gauge track. Hornby had Lyddle End. So technically Hornby had a train, track and scenic items in N gauge, though not all at once.

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