Preorder email

[CUCKOO LINE]

28 minutes ago, darrel said:

I had a large pre order for Hornby items cancelled by Hattons. Fortunately I've managed to pre order these items from kernow. But its madness that Hornby would refuse to supply its largest customer. Ultimately its the end user, us that lose out

Yes but if you,ve managed to preorder elsewhere to Hornby you haven,t lost out, just had to go elsewhere

[Roy Langridge]

3 hours ago, Matt C said:

 

But they have to be agreed by BOTH parties. If Hornby don't confirm the amount you have asked for IS the amount they will supply, you don't have a contract you have a request to supply. As I've said before, as far as im aware this is how Hornby operate. They DON'T confirm amounts until the item's are made ? Or shipped or have arrived at Hornby. The only people who know for sure are 1 the retailer who asks for stock, do Hornby CONFIRM you WILL get that stock at the time you ask for it ? 

And 2 Hornby who know at what point in the supply Process they CONFIRM the amount of stock a retailer will ACTUALLY get

As I was told by a retailer via PM, retailers were told what allocation of 2020 launch items they were getting in January 2020. To my mind that is part of the contract process.

 

Roy

[Joseph_Pestell]

57 minutes ago, irishmail said:

an #interactive Hornby Flying Scotsman layout is on display to pay homage to its Edinburgh location.

 

Does that mean what I think it does, a push button for someone to start the train?

[spamcan61]

51 minutes ago, andyman7 said:

 

It is very clear that Hornby want a retail shop presence that complements these two channels - that means a physical shop that provides a showroom to the general public and expands awareness. 

 

.. and provides first line support for all those internet sales the retailer had nothing to do with, presumably for free.

[Brian Indge]

4 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said:

As I was told by a retailer via PM, retailers were told what allocation of 2020 launch items they were getting in January 2020. To my mind that is part of the contract process.

 

Roy

This is where Hornby are at fault. If they could not supply the models they invited retailers to order, they should have been upfront and told them at the time, not wait 13 months before dropping a bombshell on them and the customer who also ordered in good faith at the time. Their advertising states:- order from Hornby or your local stockist, which is a bit of a joke when the stockist is put in an intolerable position.

[andyman7]

8 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

.. and provides first line support for all those internet sales the retailer had nothing to do with, presumably for free.

Ah, well that's quite an interesting thought, because in the old days, model shops suffered from having to provide support to trainset buyers who had bought from Woolworths, Toys-R-Us etc. But I would think that if your retail offering is now more exclusive you have the opportunity to create a customer for life from people drawn into the hobby by buying initially on line.

[Ian Hargrave]

1 hour ago, irishmail said:

Just seen this post on the Hornby facebook page, not sure if it is of any relevance to the current situation being discussed here.

 

'Quote from Hornby FB page'

Hornby Model Railways

taS1pornsoredeh  ·

Following a multi-million pound refurbishment, we are thrilled to have a presence in the #JohnLewis store in Edinburgh!

The store which is located in St James Quarter reopened on 14th May and alongside a raft of new services, an #interactive Hornby Flying Scotsman layout is on display to pay homage to its Edinburgh location.

What an achievement by Hornby ! Just think about the prestige of being on the John Lewis list....

[Matt C]

24 minutes ago, Brian Indge said:

This is where Hornby are at fault. If they could not supply the models they invited retailers to order, they should have been upfront and told them at the time, not wait 13 months before dropping a bombshell on them and the customer who also ordered in good faith at the time. Their advertising states:- order from Hornby or your local stockist, which is a bit of a joke when the stockist is put in an intolerable position.

 

Ok I'll bite, you've quoted Hornby as Saying " Order from Hornby or your LOCAL stockist." How many of those with pre orders cancelled are LOCAL to Hattons ?

 

[Joseph_Pestell]

22 minutes ago, andyman7 said:

Ah, well that's quite an interesting thought, because in the old days, model shops suffered from having to provide support to trainset buyers who had bought from Woolworths, Toys-R-Us etc. But I would think that if your retail offering is now more exclusive you have the opportunity to create a customer for life from people drawn into the hobby by buying initially on line.

 

Suffered is just the right word. Every bloody January, people coming into the shop who could not understand why I could not supply extra coaches for little Jeannot's TGV bought at the toy shop or supermarket.

[darrel]

44 minutes ago, CUCKOO LINE said:

Yes but if you,ve managed to preorder elsewhere to Hornby you haven,t lost out, just had to go elsewhere

Not this time. But I did the last time Hornby didn't supply enough models. And others will not have been so lucky this time.

[PaulRhB]

31 minutes ago, Brian Indge said:

order from Hornby or your local stockist, which is a bit of a joke when the stockist is put in an intolerable position.

Certainly previous examples mean you can’t be certain ordering from your local. With the Pecketts I ordered one of each and my local only got one type supplied. By swapping stock with two other local shops who also didn’t get all they ordered they were able to satisfy most customers by doing extra legwork. Fairly as I’d ordered three I got two so others still got at least one, not great but fair in the circumstances. Fortunately the third one I found at another shop, my second local, that had kept their stock off the internet to serve regulars. With the Rocket sets he put in an order but was then informed he wouldn’t get all of them, fortunately he had over ordered expecting that and only taken reservations for half that which is all he got. So it seems you put in a speculative order on most normal items, some ltd editions they are told their allocation up front and then they wait to see if they get all the order but it can be a month later or a month before release before they get told how many they will actually get. The same story from three shops that a colleague and myself use. 
I have the W1 and other models on order with my closest shop but even that looks doubtful I’ll get them all but in an effort to support him I’m not duplicating orders and I asked about the APT too after quickly putting in a pre order with Hattons so I could release that the next day if he could get it. Looks like that email will come sometime soon and then I’ll have to see what I can find. 
I really don’t know why they couldn’t do the same as with the ltd edition O gauge and allocate a known amount to each shop and then release spare stock not taken up a week or two later.

Both companies reputations are getting a battering and it’s taken that little kid in you excitement out of waiting for a new model because you still don’t know 100% if you’ll get it wherever you order it. 
 

Oh well we will see what happens but I do hope they sort out this order and allocation mess next year so your shop can say yes or no straight away as the three I know of being asked are only about 50% confident of getting what they ask for at present. 

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, darrel said:

Not this time. But I did the last time Hornby didn't supply enough models. And others will not have been so lucky this time.

Way back in January, I said there is a risk that in selling packs of coaches, the risk is you don't get a set.I found myself without 2 of my 9 coronations, and had to chase up over a month + to get them (from a gold plated retailer too) fortunately they weren't a sell out, but there was an agonising silence, and a few emails to get the job complete.

since then ive seen them too heavy for my Coronation to pull them.. making it kind of pointless, wouldnt you think they would test these things ?.. thats £500 for the bbq gone.

 

Now.. APT, Mk4’s + 91 (x3 liveries) Blue Pullman HST... thats nearly £2.5k of spend do you want to risk it, to find yourself 1 coach short of a set on each?

 

I had plans on 4x LNER azuma, to be able to make 2x full length sets.. thats another £1.6k... thinking now theres a cat’s chance of one motor being able to pull it.

 

Then the cancel emails started coming..

On others weve seen some retailers suddenly lifting prices way above rrp.

 

I’m not committing that kind of cash to risk to be 1 vehicle short every time, to be told I should be grateful I get it at all, or pay an ebay premium just because...

 

its not fun,

its no fault of my own.

ive spent a whole day reaming and tweaking coronation coaches to make them roll, chances are i may need a full rewire to make them usable in my environment.

 

ive canceled some 47’s too, I feel somewhat smug in that the RCS charter set is history as is the ROG 47s. Modern image is a fickle place, they took these away from retailers and I suspect interest will wane on these, but its Hornbys problem now, not the retailers. 
 

W1, 2MT will I wont I get it.... I could go on... why collect something if its painful to do it.

 

What is the point in pre-ordering, i might as well play the lottery instead.

 

I write it knowing that no one out there cares...ive made a veggie patch instead, i’ll talk to my onions, at least if they rot its my fault, but by then my East Coast fleet might be throbbing to the sounds made by a more consistent manufacturer... i may not even care about everything above at that point.

 

i write this as a frustrated hobbist, just looking to have fun and seeking reliability and consistency, instead i’m beginning to feel like a mug...

 

Edited May 22, 2021 by adb968008

[Ian Hargrave]

3 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

I have nothing at all against the idea of only selling to "bricks and mortar" outlets. Indeed, I am 100% in favour. Walthers operated the same policy and is what led me to rent a shop.

 

But Hornby are selling direct and via Amazon.

 

So they have two completely contradictory policies. That is rarely a recipe for success. 

 

As you say, in Hatton's case, it looks like spite from Hornby about Hatton's becoming a rival commissioner/producer. But how much is that impacting Hornby? Is it costing them as much business as they lose from ditching Hatton's as a retailer. I doubt it.

 

But as I understand it, Hatton's is by no means the only retailer to have lost at least a part of its orders in this event.

This dichotomy between Amazon and Hattons is curious. One assumes,rightly or wrongly that Hattons have fallen foul of H’s new system because they have become a provider as opposed to a retailer of products which are deemed to be in competition with products of said H .As of now,this remains pure supposition. As far as other stockists are concerned,the true position of supply remains unclear as only a small number post on this forum and I imagine most   will decline the opportunity of discussing quotas /tier systems because it could compromise their position and status.That position might change in due course but for now I think we can assume it to be off limits.Unless of course,someone breaks ranks.

 

    Amazon are unique and appear to write their own rules,never mind Hornby’s  They are for many reasons now part of the fabric of society like it or not.Because of Covid lockdown and my own circumstances I’ve in some ways become dependent upon them,finding myself receiving deliveries of such diverse items a new vacuum cleaner and tinned tomatoes.

 

Hornby’s entry into the Amazon marketplace isn’t unique as far as this hobby is concerned. Gaugemaster also have a presence and the free delivery on Amazon Prime is advantageous if you wish to for instance buy Roco HO stuff.They are main UK distributors,though other cheaper options are available .

 

 

[phil gollin]

`

 

For other traders to profit from Hattons misfortune they need to do two things ;

 

1: Improve their websites, especially pre-orders.

 

2: (For me the most important) set up a "trunk" facility.   It is a relatively simple thing to do and is helpful to people who want near guaranteed delivery of more than a few item.    Yes, it needs some storage space and some logical, tidy mind - but it isn't rocket science (and it is customer friendly).

 

.

[Robert Scott]

2 hours ago, pc3163 said:

Hattons are still listing lots of Hornby items for Pre-order: https://www.hattons.co.uk/stocklist/1000389/Hornby/advance.aspx

I took a look at what Hattons are still offering pre-order status. These I would suggest are standard stock items (when they are received) rather than the "must to haves" that most people place for pre-orders for.

 

I could be wrong however.

[rhnrhn]

I pre-ordered a Class 87 City of Birmingham on the day it was announced.

 

Last week I recieved the cancellation e-Mail from the retailer explaining shortfall in allocation etc.

 

Will I now pre-order from Hornby?

 

No.

 

If they don't want to sell one via one of their retailers enough, then I am not sure that I want to buy one enough.

[andyman7]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

 

W1, 2MT will I wont I get it.... I could go on... why collect something if its painful to do it.

 

 

 

Ironically the pleasure of collecting is precisely in acquiring something because it is difficult to get hold of. The problem here is for those who don't have time for or enjoy the hunt, who want to browse the catalogue in January, place their orders and have the things turn up.

 

I have a full FGW HST rake in the dynamic lines colours (yes, like the one they are making again this year). I reckon it took about 3 years to piece the set together because at no point could you just get all the coaches and the power cars at the same time. An 8 coach set with power cars acquired from about 5 shops, an auction house and a collectors fair, surplus and duplicate items helping to defray the cost. It was very satisfying to achieve that for me, but I can understand not for others.

Edited May 22, 2021 by andyman7
Spelling

[TrainMan2001]

7 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

Really? Who else is making a W1 and APT? . . .

It was mainly meant as a joke, but I was talking about the Terrier, Large Prairie, Class 91, Generic Coaches, Lion...

[TrainMan2001]

3 hours ago, andyman7 said:

I have just gone into Bachmann's US website - where Bachmann is  a household name selling to a much broader market than the UK Branchline range - and guess what? They have an online shop! They have an Amazon shop!

And they also still allow the biggest US retailers (TrainWorld) and competitors (Walthers) to sell their products and ask for pre-orders, which they actually fill.

[maico]

5 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

I don't think that anyone has said that they want Hornby to fail. 

 

 

Your letter to Mr. H was close to saying just that...

"Time was when I thought that your company's existence was important to the hobby in the UK. Now, I would happily see it go to the wall to let more competent people take over."

 

No doubt it will be filed under Bloviating: Mr. Angry from Tunbridge Wells...

The people at Hornby wear vintage bear hunting suits for protection in any case!

 

 

 

Edited May 22, 2021 by maico

[woodenhead]

1 hour ago, phil gollin said:

`

 

For other traders to profit from Hattons misfortune they need to do two things ;

 

1: Improve their websites, especially pre-orders.

 

2: (For me the most important) set up a "trunk" facility.   It is a relatively simple thing to do and is helpful to people who want near guaranteed delivery of more than a few item.    Yes, it needs some storage space and some logical, tidy mind - but it isn't rocket science (and it is customer friendly).

 

.

And who is going to pay for that extra storage space required if a lot of people ask to use a trunk and wait ages to clear it.

 

Hattons have a trunk facility because they have a large warehouse, most model shops only have shelves.

[surfsup]

5 hours ago, irishmail said:

Just seen this post on the Hornby facebook page, not sure if it is of any relevance to the current situation being discussed here.

 

'Quote from Hornby FB page'

Hornby Model Railways

taS1pornsoredeh  ·

Following a multi-million pound refurbishment, we are thrilled to have a presence in the #JohnLewis store in Edinburgh!

The store which is located in St James Quarter reopened on 14th May and alongside a raft of new services, an #interactive Hornby Flying Scotsman layout is on display to pay homage to its Edinburgh location.

 

I did see that too - which raised a smirk given Hornby's "stance" on supporting the smaller shops - Harburn Hobbies are a 5 minute walk away down the Leith Walk, and you've got a few other shops including Rainbow Railways not too far away in Linlithgow. 

[phil gollin]

1 hour ago, woodenhead said:

And who is going to pay for that extra storage space required if a lot of people ask to use a trunk and wait ages to clear it.

 

Hattons have a trunk facility because they have a large warehouse, most model shops only have shelves.

.

 

IF they don't want extra custom, then they don't need to supply a "trunk" facility  -  it is up to them.

 

.

[atom3624]

Are they trying to reinvent the wheel - changing their marketing from bonfide model shops to run-of-the-mill 'normal shops' looking for new purchasers?

 

It does seem an unfortunate situation they're creating.

 

Al.

[adb968008]

36 minutes ago, atom3624 said:

Are they trying to reinvent the wheel - changing their marketing from bonfide model shops to run-of-the-mill 'normal shops' looking for new purchasers?

 

It does seem an unfortunate situation they're creating.

 

Al.

Its a corporate thing unfortunately.

my local garden centre had everything garden, plus a specialist food shopping mall.

Anything local, artisan, craft, home made indeed even foods you remember as a kid and never saw again..,this was where you got it. Fresh produce was always the best and hand pick.

After Christmas it was taken over by a corporate garden centre chain, and the whole food mall was replaced by a Sainsburys concession.

 

You can just imagine the local reaction to that, its been better than that district council meeting that went viral on zoom.

Nothing will change it, just vote with your feet and move on, life is too short to change things you cannot change.

 

 

 

Edited May 22, 2021 by adb968008