Hornby 2022 - Diesel/Electric Range

[TomScrut]

47 minutes ago, GordonC said:

 

I find it ridiculous if Hornby have judged the production quantities so tightly before any interest can be gathered, even from shops if not the general public. Most businesses would do anything to find a popular product that they can sell in quantity and make money and profit from. Hornby's answer ... we'll make limited numbers so buyers end up rationed to a wagon or two each a handful of days after a new catalogue is announced. Is that any way to run a business?

The thing is, given the original wagons (of which there are 2000), sold out at £75 in 2018/19 and then go for £130+ on eBay on the rare occasions they appear, you'd think a run at least equal to that size would sell at £50.

 

 

 

I have been told by 2 completely independent people their reckoning (although I have no method of validating either claim, the scramble suggests that the run is small) is that these are 400-500 of each, and therefore a small run compared to the more expensive ones before. If that's the case, no wonder people can't get them, I am after about 1% of all they are making.

Edited January 14, 2022 by TomScrut

[newbryford]

Just now, spamcan61 said:

Presumably (my assumption) they have to commit to production volumes well before (months / years?) the product announcement / dealer orders, so they can't adjust for unexpected demand (up or down). Back to the fundamental flaw in their current 'big bang' announcement approach.

 

But the altered production numbers of 66731 Captain Tom - albeit a one off - is proof that it can be done.

Also bear in mind that this was announced in the April after the usual annual announcements.

 

Maybe it took the place of and pushed other production back?

 

Having said that, I'd rather they increased production numbers and push stuff back, rather than see the debacle over the likes of the Drax hoppers and others

 

 

[TomScrut]

16 minutes ago, newbryford said:

But the altered production numbers of 66731 Captain Tom - albeit a one off - is proof that it can be done.

Also bear in mind that this was announced in the April after the usual annual announcements.

 

Maybe it took the place of and pushed other production back?

 

Having said that, I'd rather they increased production numbers and push stuff back, rather than see the debacle over the likes of the Drax hoppers and others

 

The thing about the Captain Tom 66 is that it could have just taken numbers off one or more of the many 66s they had in the 2020 range and postponed those.

[newbryford]

8 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

The thing about the Captain Tom 66 is that it could have just taken numbers off one or more of the many 66s they had in the 2020 range and postponed those.

 

Invisible ink?

Maybe it took the place of and pushed other production back?

 

[TomScrut]

6 minutes ago, newbryford said:

 

Invisible ink?

Maybe it took the place of and pushed other production back?

 

 

That's what I meant, but given they already had production booked for X amount of 66s it was probably reasonably simple to do as it would be a case of substituting and making the other ones later in a different run. In the case of something like these wagons, getting more made would need something else (using different tooling and possibly for a different customer) moving backwards meaning it is potentially more difficult to do.

 

Not quite the same thing IMO.

[JohnR]

15 hours ago, shunny said:

In Scoonie Hobbies this afternoon and Steve the owner confirmed production has been increased and his allocation upped by Hornby but he has had many enquiries so possibly him and other will have these spoken for already

 

Nice to know he's a Tier 1 retailer. Hornby really ought to have done a list. 

[spamcan61]

1 hour ago, JohnR said:

 

Nice to know he's a Tier 1 retailer. Hornby really ought to have done a list. 

I suspect they realise how unpopular that would make them with retailers they've decided are in tiers 2 and 3.

[159220]

Been enjoying the annual Hornbyfest, I’m sure like others, you’ve asked around to work out what’s happening.

 

I’ve been told by multiples that Tier 1/2 retailers have until next week to confirm their orders and they won’t know of their final allocations until that time. Tier 3 won’t be able to confirm until end of the month. Sadly it appears to be pushing more customers directly to Hornby.com. This is not good as rather than a third of the price/money going to local shops it is finding its way to Hornby’s main shareholder (not difficult to guess who).

 

I’m surprised this forum has a short memory on the Biomass wagons. When originally released they were a corporate commission by Drax directly. A production run of 1000 per livery (two in total) was split between 500 for Drax and 500 released to the jolly public with Hattons being the selected retailer.

 

 

As Drax commissioned them, they would own the tooling. It appears now, Hornby have come to some terms with Drax to make a limited general release, they have ensured these are again limited (I’ve seen 500 each put around). I suspect the price is “cheaper” as the general sale last time covered the tooling and production costs for the 1000 given to clients. I am rather surprised these were not a Hornby.com exclusive as “500” spread out over hundreds of retailers was only a recipe for disaster.

 

Moving on, I was intrigued by a comment above about how much a Rmweber has on pre-order. Like many, I thought to quickly tally up my figures. I was rather shocked to see Hornby coming out at number one. Only because there’s far better, more accurate manufacturers out there… yet somehow Hornby is getting the biggest percentage of my modelling cash (though I suspect Bachmann would be first if we knew what they had planned for 2022 and beyond…). I do wonder as much as we laugh at Hornby’s shortcomings on here and shout vocally in favour of the detailed chosen ones…Hornby is rather good as a company in painlessly extracting cash. I kinda of admire it.

 

BBC pay scale structure below -

 

Hornby 3000-3500 (might be more if the competition to the HST turns out to be a ruse)

Revolution 1500-2000

Dapol 500-1000

Accurascale 500-1000

Cavalex TBC 1-500 (based on 56 price)

Bachmann 0 (I am certain this shall fluctuate every 3 months)

 

Of course, these are not factually accurate figures as only Hornby announces once a year, so a more realistic tally would be of what I actually had delivered in 2021

 

Bachmann 2000-2500

Revolution 500-1000

Dapol 1-500

Hornby 1-500

Accurascale 1-500

Heljan 1-500

EFE 1-500

Cavalex 0

 

Which kinda now ruins my surprise for so much spend on Hornby, as Bachmann do well out of me too!

 

Still, I’d love to hear of other modellers pre-order splits?!

 

Not seen much discussion on the move to 21-pin DCC - hoorah! Who also hopes the next Hitachi AT300s and Class 91 come with working pantographs?

[TomScrut]

11 minutes ago, 159220 said:

Still, I’d love to hear of other modellers pre-order splits?!

 

Well, at the moment with numbers off the top if my head:

 

Bachmann £0

Dapol £0

Heljan £0

Revolution £500

Accurascale £2000

Hornby £2500

 

Note that there was only £800 ish on Hornby this time last week and £400 of it is imminent subject to the light bleed on the Azuma. Most of the Hornby money is on Hitachis. Likewise Revolution have most of what I am waiting for from them in stock I just haven't got it yet.

 

If it all comes this year it is an expensive job 

[Global]

Last Friday it looked like this…

 

Hornby £3000

Accurascale £2500

Cavalex £1600

Bachmann £600

SLW £325

Dapol £0

Heljan £0

 

There wasn’t much for me in this year’s announcements anyway (for late 80s/early 90s) so probably just the 60s to be honest but with Hornby’s shenanigans and just generally not impressed with the quality/value I cancelled all my existing Hornby pre-orders so it now looks like this…

 

Accurascale £2500

Cavalex £1600

Bachmann £600

SLW £325

Dapol £0

Heljan £0

Hornby £0

 

Must be something to do with starting with ‘H’ as I won’t be buying Heljan either! They’d probably be in the lead at the moment, with about £3000, if they could actually be bothered to make the effort and get the shape of their 45s and 47s correct! 
 

So that’s plenty saved to now send Accurascales way! Interestingly a couple of years ago I’d say 90% of my spend probably went to Bachmann! 

 

Edited January 14, 2022 by Global

[TomScrut]

Just now, Global said:

So that’s plenty saved to now send Accurascales way! Interestingly a couple of years ago I’d say 90% of my spend probably went to Bachmann! 

 

The thing is we don't have sight of what they are doing, but like Hornby there isn't that much in their existing tooling suite that I want that I don't have (all I wanted from Hornby this year was 802, 803 and Drax and they all turned up). Orange 90 and a Northern 158 basically unless they bring an XC 221 from the dead!

[Global]

12 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

The thing is we don't have sight of what they are doing, but like Hornby there isn't that much in their existing tooling suite that I want that I don't have (all I wanted from Hornby this year was 802, 803 and Drax and they all turned up). Orange 90 and a Northern 158 basically unless they bring an XC 221 from the dead!

True. I’ve got a couple of the new 47s on order to see what they’re like but can’t see me buying loads, although if Bachmann drip feed them like they normally do it’ll take decades to assemble a fleet of them! 

 

I certainly prefer the Accurascale/Cavalex/SLW way of releasing a large number of variations in one go so you can get a fleet up together quickly!

 

I actually prefer the Heljan releases on the 47 and I would have probably looked to replace my Bachmann fleet with these had they not of buggered the shape!  

 

My preorder amount for Cavalex is all for 56s and allows me to more than replace my Hornby fleet of 5 in one go! Although I think I may have underestimated the amount I quoted above!! 

[newbryford]

2 hours ago, 159220 said:

 

 

Not seen much discussion on the move to 21-pin DCC - hoorah! 

 

Not difficult to find.

 

[ERIC ALLTORQUE]

Drax from origional release if you have some to compliment it

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/393864551216?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

[Johnson Street IEMD]

I dont know whether this is the right place for this question ... but what livery is this ? and which Class 90 wears it as I havent seen it ?

 

I didn't see this in the 2022 releases ... and am curious about it ...

 

 

[James Makin]

6 hours ago, Johnson Street IEMD said:

I dont know whether this is the right place for this question ... but what livery is this ? and which Class 90 wears it as I havent seen it ?

 

I didn't see this in the 2022 releases ... and am curious about it ...

 

 

It’s on the last picture on the first page of this thread from Andy’s first post -

Looks to be a fictitious livery, as no running number showing, unless it’s a visionary plan of something that might come to a real 90 later this year! 
 

Cheers

James

[TomScrut]

6 minutes ago, James Makin said:

unless it’s a visionary plan of something that might come to a real 90 later this year! 

 

That's what I expect it to be. Just a shame it's on a Hornby one!

[adb968008]

On 14/01/2022 at 11:28, GordonC said:

 

I find it ridiculous if Hornby have judged the production quantities so tightly before any interest can be gathered, even from shops if not the general public. Most businesses would do anything to find a popular product that they can sell in quantity and make money and profit from. Hornby's answer ... we'll make limited numbers so buyers end up rationed to a wagon or two each a handful of days after a new catalogue is announced. Is that any way to run a business?

Dont forget these are Tier 1 shops too… the cream of the cream and all that rubbish.

 

if a customer cannot place an order with a Tier 1 shop, on day 1 of the catalog release, only to find on day 3 the Tier 1 retailer cannot supply and is cancelling…

With sloppy artwork (50’s) and errors in descriptions (Stanier’s bulleid), errors in renders (6202), controversial announcements this years renders is definitely feeling more like school homework.

Its seems to me they don't care, so why should I ?

 

Whats the point ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 15, 2022 by adb968008

[Scottish-Exile]

4 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Whats the point ?

 

 

Agreed. Totally disenchanted with Hornby, not that I was much of a fan beforehand.

 

Indeed, the only Hornby wagons I own, out of some 300+ are my 20 Drax wagons from the 2016 release.

 

As for locos, just 7%, 12 out of 165, are Hornby with 5 each of Class 60 & 67 and 2 Class 87s. Admittedly, those 60s & 87s are really good models.

 

I would have been in the market for a further 20 Drax wagons. But having made dozens of calls and finding that even the Tier 1 suppliers had only been allocated 8 of each, and were then restricting to just 1 per customer, I decided to give up the chase.

 

There's a big box of Revolution Timber wagons just delivered that's awaiting me when I next get home. When I look at my rolling stock, it's been pretty much all Accurascale, Cavalex, Revolution over recent years while for locos it's been an obscene amount of Heljan McRats or Realtrack 156's.

 

No matter how desperate, I'd never get drawn into paying full RRP at Hornby.com when I'd much rather buy local, as I'm passionate about supporting my local model shops and am fortunate that Widnes model centre and Trident Trains are close by to home.

 

Seeing rumours here that H might up their production. I'll take a view at the time as to whether to buy. With working away from home and no real sizeable layout to run stuff on, everything's just sitting boxed up anyway so I dare say there'll be other announcements throughout the year that will sway my wallet instead. 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 15, 2022 by Scottish-Exile
fat finger typing

[I.C.L. 11]

As an NRM fan with good memories of seeing 13079 at the museum I welcome the return of a Railway Museum range. It's nice to see a black 350hp but I think the Hornby tooling is unlikely to cover the differences on the very early locos such as small buffer beam lifting slots and wooden cabside window frames.

[rob D2]

I don’t want any drax wagons but maybe Hornby are so in touch with “ modern image “ ( ha ha ) they think these wagons run in ones or twos in local pick up freights, around skaledale goods yard.

 

Seriously though , having watched the TV show it seems a few people are doing a lot of stuff there - Do they have a modern image and livery expert. I’m willing to apply for MI global trouble shooter !

[Johnson Street IEMD]

10 hours ago, James Makin said:

It’s on the last picture on the first page of this thread from Andy’s first post -

Looks to be a fictitious livery, as no running number showing, unless it’s a visionary plan of something that might come to a real 90 later this year! 
 

Cheers

James

 

Sooo ... according to the Class 90 facebook group, its the forthcoming colours for 90034.

 

 

[centraltrains]

It's interesting that the RRP on the class 90 has dropped £20. Current ones being £109.99, the Malcolm one being £89.99 on that picture or £84.98 on the Hornby website.

Why can this loco be dropped in price but not anything else in the range? (At a guess - because it's a club exclusive, maybe they've dropping the margin shops would otherwise make?)

Edited January 15, 2022 by centraltrains

[rob D2]

2 hours ago, centraltrains said:

It's interesting that the RRP on the class 90 has dropped £20. Current ones being £109.99, the Malcolm one being £89.99 on that picture or £84.98 on the Hornby website.

Why can this loco be dropped in price but not anything else in the range? (At a guess club exclusive, so maybe they've dropped the margin they'd expect shops to make on it?)

Maybe cos they realised how rubbish it is next to a Bachmann one ? I wouldn’t spend £8.99 on that 

[AY Mod]

2 hours ago, centraltrains said:

At a guess club exclusive,

 

My OP shows it is a Club Exclusive.