Hornby 2022 - Diesel/Electric Range

[TomScrut]

1 hour ago, Pmorgancym said:

I wonder as things have moved, if 8 pin sockets are getting harder to source.  And the allocation of 21pinz is purely down to what each production unit can source.

 

I expect it will be that they (Hornby) will be stopping manufacturing 8 pin decoders before long and trying to get everything moved over when convenient. I.e. the reverse of the reason (IMO) they have clung onto 8 pin for so long, they had 8 pin decoders to sell, not 21 pin.

[andyman7]

On 15/02/2022 at 15:56, thunderer08 said:

That’s easy, Hornby want to put it up against Hattons far superior detailded version, putting it in the railroad range would be admitting its inferior in detail.

It's an oddity but I don't think they have ever pretended it equals either Hattons or Bachmann spec - it's half the price

[frobisher]

3 hours ago, andyman7 said:

It's an oddity but I don't think they have ever pretended it equals either Hattons or Bachmann spec - it's half the price

 

The main criteria for something being Railroad or not seems to be "Do Hornby have a better version of this also available in the main range?".  The 66 seems to have the additional factor of it can be cranked out in lots of rather niche liveries for collectors.

[Pmorgancym]

On 17/02/2022 at 11:19, frobisher said:

 

The main criteria for something being Railroad or not seems to be "Do Hornby have a better version of this also available in the main range?".  The 66 seems to have the additional factor of it can be cranked out in lots of rather niche liveries for collectors.

Not convinced that true, I think a lot of the time they seem nervy of putting, certainly some of their better older tooling, in RR against the main range.  I doubt we'll see the black 5 and 8f down graded to railroad.

[adb968008]

41 minutes ago, Pmorgancym said:

Not convinced that true, I think a lot of the time they seem nervy of putting, certainly some of their better older tooling, in RR against the main range.  I doubt we'll see the black 5 and 8f down graded to railroad.

They already have railroad versions.

 

The 8f was more of an upgrade of the 1980’s tooling, but the 1970’s Black5 still is released occasionally.

 

Having seen the Duchess and Princess upgrades, and largely been dissapointed, i’m approaching the black 5 with caution, much of its issues were below the frames, and Hornby imo has never really been good in this area, except the original MN. I was hoping someone other than Hornby would tool this pair if i’m honest.

 

My best hope with Hornby would be a new tooled metal bodied Dublo 8f.

 

Edited February 21, 2022 by adb968008

[MikeParkin65]

3 hours ago, adb968008 said:

 

 

Having seen the Duchess and Princess upgrades, and largely been dissapointed, i’m approaching the black 5 with caution, much of its issues were below the frames, and Hornby imo has never really been good in this area, except the original MN. I was hoping someone other than Hornby would tool this pair if i’m honest.

 

 

 

Interesting observation. I spent my 'modelling afternoon' yesterday assessing my various Hornby Duchess acquired parts stock with a view to create another of the class. I'm struck by how interchangeable the chassis of the last and current  Duchess are. The chassis of the current one is very much an evolution of the previous and indeed the older body fits straight onto it once the plastic firebox sides are removed. Same motor and gear box, same mounting point at the rear but will need to add a lug to the bottom of the smokebox to attach at the front as the new models correct inside cylinder arrangement means the fixing lugs arent in the same place. I remember seeing a preproduction version of 46256 on the Hornby stand at a show and being told - perhaps by Paul Isles that it was a wholly new tooling. Certainly thats true of the body but I'm not so sure as you say about the chassis. The cylinder block appears identical apart from the holes for the draincocks and the connecting rods and valve gear are inter changeable (and the old connecting rods don't have the odd looking 'spare hole' at the middle driver).

 

I'll be interested to see the new Black Five but I'm not excited and I am hoping another manufacturer takes a shot at making this most ubiquitous of prototypes and in so doing raises the bar again.

[The Evil Bus Driver]

On 10/01/2022 at 08:48, Geep7 said:

That's was my first thought as well, but it's good to see that they're using the tooling again, even though Southern and SWT liveries are well out of my era. I'm tempted by one in SWT, as one of my last journeys in a slam-door EMU was an SWT 4-Vep.

 

Also, i'm assuming that the 5-pole motor is a new feature for the VEP motor bogie, in which case, I think there might be a bit of a spares market for them for the old models.

Looking at the picture of the VEP on their blog it looks so much better. The drivers windows have been moved and shaped correctly and the gangway door is much better. Apparently the motor coach chassis is die cast and the motor moved into the brake van. I'm almost tempted except my wallet is screaming. 

[Geep7]

10 minutes ago, The Evil Bus Driver said:

Looking at the picture of the VEP on their blog it looks so much better. The drivers windows have been moved and shaped correctly and the gangway door is much better. Apparently the motor coach chassis is die cast and the motor moved into the brake van. I'm almost tempted except my wallet is screaming. 

The diecast chassis would solve a lot of the adhesion issues. To fix my original release, I had to add lots of weight, whilst removing some of the seating..... It's a shame that the new one is only going to be in 2 fairly modern liveries, as at the price they are asking, i'm not sure i'd want to respray it.

[The Evil Bus Driver]

12 minutes ago, Geep7 said:

The diecast chassis would solve a lot of the adhesion issues. To fix my original release, I had to add lots of weight, whilst removing some of the seating..... It's a shame that the new one is only going to be in 2 fairly modern liveries, as at the price they are asking, i'm not sure i'd want to respray it.

Yeah. Maybe they're doing those for thd collectors to test the water. Hopefully there'll be a blue or blue grey and an NSE release. I'd probably want to obtain some DTC bodyshells as spares in due course if they ever make them available. Mine runs OK even though its had a bare minimum of running (20 minutes on an did to end), not even enough to run it in. I'll test it when I join my local MRC (Daventry) later this week as they have a test track.

[andyman7]

Also, the liveries they are doing are much more challenging if you want to do them yourself - I'm delighted to buy an SWT one as I wouldn't fancy doing that paint job myself

Edited February 22, 2022 by andyman7

[The Evil Bus Driver]

6 hours ago, andyman7 said:

Also, the liveries they are doing are much more challenging if you want to do them yourself - I'm delighted to buy an SWT one as I wouldn't fancy doing that paint job myself

I certainly don't fancy masking that lot up for painting hehe

[Sir TophamHatt]

Forgot about the Class 755 until I saw the announcement about the Class 175 and 180.

 

I can imagine Hornby putting the motor in the motor car, but would prefer it in either end as I don't really like pushing things around.  Although the Bachmann Voyager seems to do okay.  But then I wonder if Hornby don't see the need to use electrical couplings (like Revolution's Class 180 will have), as people will buy whatever they produce.

 

I also worry a little about availability.

Happy to wait if/when prices drop a little - certainly at these RRPs - but with the latest trend of (very) limited editions, I also don't want to miss out or pay inflated prices via ebay.  There's a few places online that are selling less than the RRP so will look at those keenly.

Edited February 28, 2022 by Sir TophamHatt

[TomScrut]

28 minutes ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

While I can imagine Hornby putting the motor in the motor coach, I'd prefer it in one of the end coaches.

 

I can imagine Hornby putting the motor in the motor car, but would prefer it in either end as I don't really like pushing things around.  Although the Bachmann Voyager seems to do okay.  But then I wonder if Hornby don't see the need to use electrical couplings (like Revolution's Class 180 will have), as people will buy whatever they produce.

 

It's an interesting one. My concern is different to yours, in that I think with correctly set up rigid couplers pushing and pulling shouldn't matter.

 

My concern is, if they make the engine car the motor car then how will they give it the weight needed, and because of its length (under 9cm long by my reckoning) it won't be ideal in terms of pickups unless there is an electrical connection throughout which doesn't sound very Hornby.

 

Another thing to bear in mind is the cars share bogies so logically it is simplest to do it on a driving car but from an adhesion perspective doing a motor car with shared bogies allows multiple coaches to help with the weight. For example the motor car could be the power but the two coaches either side could be weighted at the ends where the power car is.

 

Have they said how many decoders these need, that might be a clue? If 2 then one end is motor car. If 3 then engine car is motor like the APT. If 1 then motor could be anywhere but at least we have through power.

Edited February 27, 2022 by TomScrut

[adb968008]

On 27/02/2022 at 22:07, TomScrut said:

 

It's an interesting one. My concern is different to yours, in that I think with correctly set up rigid couplers pushing and pulling shouldn't matter.

 

My concern is, if they make the engine car the motor car then how will they give it the weight needed, and because of its length (under 9cm long by my reckoning) it won't be ideal in terms of pickups unless there is an electrical connection throughout which doesn't sound very Hornby.

 

Another thing to bear in mind is the cars share bogies so logically it is simplest to do it on a driving car but from an adhesion perspective doing a motor car with shared bogies allows multiple coaches to help with the weight. For example the motor car could be the power but the two coaches either side could be weighted at the ends where the power car is.

 

Have they said how many decoders these need, that might be a clue? If 2 then one end is motor car. If 3 then engine car is motor like the APT. If 1 then motor could be anywhere but at least we have through power.

ive given up on quality from Hornby, i’m just expecting cheap as it gets design.

Maybe they just make the “power pack” as they already do.., one bogie using the railroad motor as per the old vep, 156, 101, 153, Eurostar, Bil, Belle, 395 etc.. and the other bogie an empty shell bogie of the same.

 

Coaches eitherside I would expect to be something that just sits into the bogies and fairly light weight with a wide pivot.

 

Imo.. The clue is in the tech specs..

 

 

https://uk.Hornby.com/products/greater-anglia-class-7554-flirt-4-car-train-pack-era-11-r3964
 

3 Pole motors in a £400 model … really ?

Sadly the VEP is too (but always was).

Edited March 5, 2022 by adb968008

[TomScrut]

6 hours ago, adb968008 said:

3 Pole motors in a £400 model … really ?

 

Hmm that doesn't sound particularly great does it?

 

6 hours ago, adb968008 said:

ive given up on quality from Hornby, i’m just expecting cheap as it gets design.

 

Maybe so, but there is still a design challenge in the nature of the train

[adb968008]

17 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

Hmm that doesn't sound particularly great does it?

 

 

Maybe so, but there is still a design challenge in the nature of the train

Maybe, they could use the gangway mechanism they used on the Rivarossi PKP articulated stock to hide it…?

 

Using that idea, Basically the motor bogie is what it is, the gangway pivots on top of it, and also acts as the device the coaches connect onto, which themselves pivot from them.

Its a bit of a faff to assemble the coaches, but it works and could hide a pod motor like used in railroad to motorise it. The nice thing about it is no visible gap between coaches.

 

Edited March 6, 2022 by adb968008

[Geep7]

On 05/03/2022 at 16:10, adb968008 said:

3 Pole motors in a £400 model … really ?

Sadly the VEP is too (but always was).

I believe in the "improved" Vep, they've uprated the motor to 5 Pole. I don't understand why they are still using 3-pole, if 5-pole are available. There can't be that much difference in price.

[adb968008]

6 hours ago, Geep7 said:

I believe in the "improved" Vep, they've uprated the motor to 5 Pole. I don't understand why they are still using 3-pole, if 5-pole are available. There can't be that much difference in price.

Says 3 pole here too..

 

 

i checked the new Black 5, MN, HST etc all five pole.

 

its either what it is, or an error specific to these two models.

 

 

the VEP article doesnt mention the motor, just a new metal chassis block, pin point bearings and better hiding of the motor..

https://uk.Hornby.com/community/blog-and-news/engine-shed/new-years-revolutions

That actually concerns me, as a similar upgrade was afflicted to the recent Belle but I found it couldn’t pull itself… the result for me was to refit vep wheels with tyres.

Edited March 8, 2022 by adb968008

[Geep7]

11 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Says 3 pole here too..

 

 

i checked the new Black 5, MN, HST etc all five pole.

 

its either what it is, or an error specific to these two models.

 

 

the VEP article doesnt mention the motor, just a new metal chassis block, pin point bearings and better hiding of the motor..

https://uk.Hornby.com/community/blog-and-news/engine-shed/new-years-revolutions

That actually concerns me, as a similar upgrade was afflicted to the recent Belle but I found it couldn’t pull itself… the result for me was to refit vep wheels with tyres.

Ok, I stand corrected. I thought I'd read that it had an upgraded 5 pole motor. Or was it in the Hornby announcement video? I must have imagined it.

[PhilJ W]

Is this the cheapest Sentinel 0-6-0?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125159657540?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-134428-41853-0&mkcid=2&itemid=125159657540&targetid=1279039639129&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=9045012&poi=&campaignid=14727339348&mkgroupid=127909237815&rlsatarget=pla-1279039639129&abcId=9300672&merchantid=114986398&gclid=Cj0KCQiAmpyRBhC-ARIsABs2EAo7sSSg2_OGOUvKnwyf9G_5ykYcSlVd4UCwJC18vmpcTC4TW6I1DVIaAqJwEALw_wcB

[adb968008]

On 08/03/2022 at 23:12, Geep7 said:

Ok, I stand corrected. I thought I'd read that it had an upgraded 5 pole motor. Or was it in the Hornby announcement video? I must have imagined it.

I’m hoping your right tbh.

 

The “upgraded” Belle was a nightmare… Mine is now powered using two powered trailers, with vep tyred wheels, far too much drag on the coach wheels.

[adb968008]

On 08/03/2022 at 23:12, Geep7 said:

Ok, I stand corrected. I thought I'd read that it had an upgraded 5 pole motor. Or was it in the Hornby announcement video? I must have imagined it.

I’m hoping your right tbh.

 

The “upgraded” Belle was a nightmare… Mine is now powered using two powered trailers, with vep tyred wheels, far too much drag on the coach wheels.

[Phatbob]

On 10/03/2022 at 14:44, adb968008 said:

I’m hoping your right tbh.

 

The “upgraded” Belle was a nightmare… Mine is now powered using two powered trailers, with vep tyred wheels, far too much drag on the coach wheels.

Agreed.  My "upgraded" 5BEL couldn't haul itself through the points in the fiddleyard, let alone climb up the gradient on Star Lane.  It now has wheels with traction tyres from a VEP and is only permitted to run in tandem with my "original" 5BEL (i.e. the ones with the PITA conductive couplings).  The two together will make their way round the layout okay, but it really is underwhelming that any manufacturer would produce something so unfit for purpose.

[Sir TophamHatt]

Well, pre-ordered my GA 745 today.

 

In this day and age, I sort of feel like a lot of models are here today, gone tomorrow, so even though I am happy to wait months after release, I also don't want to miss out.

[TomScrut]

1 hour ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

Well, pre-ordered my GA 745 today.

 

In this day and age, I sort of feel like a lot of models are here today, gone tomorrow, so even though I am happy to wait months after release, I also don't want to miss out.

 

I agree, if you really want something you are best off getting your name down for it. Worst comes to the worst (i.e. if you have problems) you are well within your rights to return it anyway so other than the shop/manufacturer going bust its low risk.