RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted January 13, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 13, 2011 Good day everyone. I needed some therapy after the festering season and so decided I would build a Comet Models Mk 1 for a change (and also as I'd been asked to do two of these; one full build and one part build for someone else). However, not just any old Mk 1 but an unusual one of 5 (I believe) 'prototypes' produced. I'll/he will end up with the Maroon one that ran initially (so it would seem) on the Eastern Region and I'll do it with OO bogies for now. The 'someone else' is also finishing at some time the other one I aim to part build for him; don't know what livery that will be as he will do that. Enough mumbling; it's the Comet Models Bullion Van (diagram) NW501. Made a start this a.m. and have given it the brass pin hinge treatment. I'm quite pleased with these. So far so good! What a lovely set of etches (as always with Comet's kits). This will be my first Comet Models Mk 1 under-frame too (another nice set of etches with some really interesting bits, both etches and w/m - I'm not used to 'modern' coaches you see). The roof has also got a lot of 'special' fittings; that should be fun.B) Unlike most of my builds this is to be a finished product and (don't all faint at once) PAINTED. I only agreed to that as the paint job is seemingly very, very, simple and the detailing (grab rails, pipes, alarm gear etc.) is also uncomplicated. Not so sure about the bog fillers though . Also, how will I manage to glaze all those windows ? Here she be so far. Have to say this is a cracking 'new' (ish) kit in the Comet range. Good one Geoff. Can I have another one please? 36E Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Looking good so far Mallard. In interesting kit, but sooooo many windows!..... Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted January 14, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 14, 2011 That brings back memories. When Leeds still had a branch of the Bank of England they used to work up to Stourton on a regular basis. The containers were unloaded there and taken to the bank with appropriate escort. Apparently prior to containerisation the cash was accried across platform 5 to the side entrance on New Station Street to a waiting lorry. The working used to come up one day and go back 2 days later, presumably with used notes. In the meantime the stock was stored in the sidings betwen the old platforms 2 & 3 ( teh bay platforms. Instantly recognisable to me as a railway enthusuast as the container flat coupled to the Bullion van had buckeye couplers and buffing plates and I think commmonwealth bogies though after this length of time they coulod ahve been B4's. the livery for the bullion van was cetainly Blue and Grey and I think blue for the flat. I believe that a 31 was used for traction. I have a vague idea that York way container terminal was the London destination. I've no idea when the workings stopped but the Bank Building ahs been closed for several years now and has now been converted to commercial offices. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Went to see The Kings Speech last night. Thoroughly enjoyed it..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted January 14, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 14, 2011 Although not my bag I'll be watching this build with interest. Thats a good point about the plans being NTS. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted January 14, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 14, 2011 As regards the containers I have a vague idea that they were just standard freightliner liveried 8' by 20' ISO boxes that I think Hornby or Triang used to do. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold DaveF Posted January 15, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 15, 2011 Here's copies of 2 of my photos of bullion vans in service. My apologies that they have been in a different thread before, but I couldn't remember how to link them. Hope they might be useful. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Fisher Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Nice looking sides. the pins work so well dont they? Now those ends shouldnt there be some forming on them? as with other mark 1's? Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted January 15, 2011 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 15, 2011 Nice looking sides. the pins work so well dont they? Now those ends shouldnt there be some forming on them? as with other mark 1's? Ian Thanks Ian. I thought I'd 'invented' the pin method earlier this year, however it had of course already been done I'm getting better at the 'grinding' off the heads and in future should be able to vary the 'depth' so that the lower hinge is more prominent (as on Bulleids); should I get a more interesting life do you think? The ends of these vehicles was modified; gangways removed/plated over etc. Thanks Dave for posting your pics again. I just think they look really good, especially the 31 and it's containers. I've never seen one of these trains represented on an exhibition layout (perhaps I should go to more?) Have done some work on the under-frame and built the B4 bogies (slight problem with ride height - probably my fault ). Cheers 36E Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold mcowgill Posted January 15, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 15, 2011 Jamie's post jogged my memory and reminded me I had seen one at Leeds between the west side bays. Here are the two photos I took of 31249 departing with two container flats (one which was E99500) and bullion van E99204 at the rear, the date was 14th January 1981. Sorry they aren't overly clear, this was before I blew some of my university grant on a decent camera, but it does show that flats had B4 bogies by this date. Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 I have a small collection of photographs of the container wagon as "BR Container flat for bullion FXA" (C#1303364) – 12 photographs http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/c1303364.html And back on topic, although it has been mentioned before, I have a few photos of the bullion coaches http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/p39096811.html http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/p39096810.html http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/p39084923.html I trust of interest Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted January 15, 2011 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 15, 2011 I have a small collection of photographs of the container wagon as "BR Container flat for bullion FXA" (C#1303364) – 12 photographs http://gallery6801.f...t/c1303364.html And back on topic, although it has been mentioned before, I have a few photos of the bullion coaches http://gallery6801.f.../p39096811.html http://gallery6801.f.../p39096810.html http://gallery6801.f.../p39084923.html I trust of interest Paul Bartlett Paul, very helpful indeed thanks, especially as the coach pics show some good under-frame position detail and ends. Also, the container 'flats' are basically Mk1 under-frames so could easily be fabricated from (say) Comet, S. Pride or DC Kits stuff. I'd prefer Comet's frames I think for a bit of weight! Jamie, another couple of excellent pics for detail - thanks a lot. 36E Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted January 15, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 15, 2011 This shows what tricks 30+ years of memory can play. I had clocked the flats as standard freightliner flats (I can't remember the design code) with B4 bogies. Now it makes sense as I remember the buckeye couplers with the bottom gangway connection. Converting Mk1 underframes which ahd all the right bits to start with makes a lot of sense. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
50A55B Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 They look like B5 bogies, not B4. Can any bogie expert confirm? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Reid Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 (No expert by any manner of means) but both vehicle types have B5s fitted... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 The 1982 RCTS coaching stock book gives B5 bogies for all 5 bullion coaches bar one, W99203* with B2 bogies. And B5 for all 4 flats. It also gives all the coaches as dual braked, dual heated, apart from W99203 air braked only and all the flats as air braked, steam piped and electric heat through-wired only. That should cover all the pipes on the end of your kit! *Edit - Paul Bartlett's photo at http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/p39084923.html shows the same coach clearly not with B2 bogies in 1977 Next question - did the single remaining big window correspond to one of the old compartments left in situ when converted to a bullion van, for the staff accompanying it? Presumably the small one was the toilet for the same purpose. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted January 16, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2011 Next question - did the single remaining big window correspond to one of the old compartments left in situ when converted to a bullion van, for the staff accompanying it? Presumably the small one was the toilet for the same purpose. Yes it did, but the corridor side window in the kit is in a different position, ie, not 5 feet from the door, anybody got a drawing to confirm or deny this? The MARC sides have the windows in the same relative positions. Senior moment. Having now checked the model. It's the compartment side window that seems to be spaced too far from the door. Moral, don't rely on failing memory! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 You could do worse than a Genz Benz amp. I got one a few years back and never looked back. My Tele sounds awesome through it. Didn't know that about the penguin did you? ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Reid Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 The B5s were just an uprated version of the B4 for heavier vehicles (in loco-hauled stock, and generally just Catering Vehicles & Sleeping Cars) or where, in the case of the bullion vehicles the loaded weight could have taken them outwith the normal range afforded by the B4s. They are outwardly similar to each other - with a couple of exceptions (all around the bolster in the centre of the bogie). The Traction Rod (running from the Bolster to the bogie frame) on a B4 was a small diameter round bar with small round rubber bushed ends, whereas on the B5 it was a noticeably heavier square section rod seperated by larger round rubber bushed ends. Additionally the bottom spring tray on the B4, finished in a right angled steel section, whereas on the B5, this whole area was beefed up into a large box section. See these two representations of the B4 & B5 by Replica and you perhaps can spot the differences. Often though one gets described as the other quite incorrectly. http://www.replicara...ies/accessories There's further info on the differences, to be had on RobertCWPs excellent Yahoo Group [Edit] additional Info - these shots show B5s; http://gallery6801.f.../p39096811.html http://gallery6801.f.../p39084926.html And this from Flikr of a typical B4 http://www.flickr.co...57625601011105/ [Edit2!) And here's a couple of contrasting shots of the Bullion Vehicles from RobertCWPs collection and one a wee bit later; Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamouti Ben Yafo Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 The photographs which I have seen all have B5 bogies, but the earliest (in one of Larkin's indispensible books) is dated 1977. He mentions that the vehicles originally had BSKs; was this a typo, or did he mean that the originals were retained? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meld Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Hi All, Here are a couple of shots of each side of 99200 and 99204 vans. Please note that ALL bullion vans are preserved and are mostly accessable, except 99203, although Shedmaster may be able to supply pictures if needed ... 99200 - VSOE, East Somerset Railway 99201 - British Army, MoD Kineton 99202 - Gloucs-Warks Railway 99203 - VSOE, Stewarts Lane 99204 - Peak Rail Also worth noting is the ends are of Std MK1 shape, I.E angle, flat, angle ( here is crude keyboard attempt ) \__/ and are deffinetly NOT flat all the way across. HTH. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted January 18, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 18, 2011 Thanks chaps. I have not got a clue about these 'modern' bogie things! B4, B5; what's the difference then? Let's hope that a B5 bogie looks very similar to a B4 bogie? Do you think Geoff at CM knows they are B5 and not B4? All those b****y bagpipes at the ends and the rubbing plates + buckeyes need to be sourced elsewhere or fabricated as they do not come with the kit. Re. the window position; I believe Geoff at CM measured things up at the G & WR? He might be interested in your thoughts on the spacing as he is always keen to try to ensure things are as 'right' as possible. Oh yes, apologies for not having finished the ****y thing yet. I've been distracted by being forced into helping fit a sodd**g bathroom ceiling in Donny on Saturday and Sunday and some bloke dragging me off to Donny today to force me to buy another guitar (and amp). I also won't finish it tomorrow (Tuesday) as another bloke is forcing me to go to Donny (NOT again I hear you groan) for a few hours 'spotting'. Curses, life is so quiet here . I promise to get on with it and post pics soon (cunningly disguising the bogies) Sincerely (forced sincerity of course ) 36E I shall be giving Geoff a call, apart from the queries, (not complaints), about the dimensions, I also seem to be a few castings missing, and I'm not sure if there should be one of his coach finishing packs in the kit for the hinges and jig. The model will be passing Doncaster tomorrow, wednesday, Mallard, I'll give you a wave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted January 19, 2011 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 19, 2011 Managed to do some more work on this interesting kit this p.m. As with all Comet Models coaches I have built, this goes together very well and is obviously designed for ease of construction. I had done the bogies last week. As usual I found the underframe details to be a faff as I'm not that brilliant at dealing with white metal soldering to brass. However, I'm quite pleased with the result and some parts were etches anyway so were easily soldered. I've popped an LNER dynamo underneath as it has a good domed shape. I've got a bit of work to do on the roof end shape(s) and as you will see the etched roof pods are being gracefully held by masking tape whilst the glue dries! There is also filling and end detailing to do. I also need to check the buffer beam shape. I've yet to decide whether to use the neat Comet castings or use some brass ones I've got in the 'bits box'. The latest pictures kindly posted here are going to be so useful for the detailing. My least favourite job of fitting the toilet filler vent and pipes is going to be done as near to last as I can postpone it, only closely preceded by the alarm rigging! (I'm still daunted by the thought of having to glaze all those windows but at least they will be mirror or darkened glaze. The drops are standard I believe? Here it is to date. Thanks for all your feedback, 36E Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidw Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Taking shape... Built any Thompson corridor stock? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Pulham Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 That's looking mighty fine Phil. An unusual prototype, will you be doing the container flats too? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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