PenrithBeacon Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 This range was exhibited at Scaleforum last year and in the three hours or so I was present the stand wasn't attended by anyone. The were some things on the stand I would have bought, but there was no-one to give the money to. All b******s really Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Yes, but the plastic ranges have not generated enough profit to allow for the proper maintenance/replacement of the machinery. I wonder if this is not another 'Sharman' type problem, where the decisions taken by the original owners make production all but unprofitable when taken out of the original context. Speculation Bill, or do you know something we don't? The Sharman comparison isn't valid. Slaters and Colin Ashby ran their ranges successfully but it seems, IIRC, that from the moment they were taken over by CooperCraft, things didn't work. The moulding machine allegedly didn't accept the moulds and one or the other needed adapting. That's where it appears to have got stuck. Jol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I think Bill has this spot on. When selling kits for only a few quid, you have to sell a hell of a lot of them to pay for capital expenditure. I don't know how much a moulding machine costs to replace but I would expect many thousands of pounds. On top of that you have to pay someone to work the machine and pack the kits into bags, process orders to end users and retailers- out of your £10 (example) kit- how much of that is left over to pay towards a new machine Yes, but the plastic ranges have not generated enough profit to allow for the proper maintenance/replacement of the machinery. I wonder if this is not another 'Sharman' type problem, where the decisions taken by the original owners make production all but unprofitable when taken out of the original context. Maybe he has just speculated. But let me ask you this- do you see a huge influx of people wanting to enter into these cottage businesses? If there is money there, then you would expect people to do so. I could think of one cottage business that has comparatively recently undergone an ownership change (brass and plastic mainly) and brought a huge increase in standards (and I suggest a bit higher prices too). But he is well and truly in the minority- that surely tells you something about the profitability of these type businesses. It is all very well for people here to say "but if he had xyz available then I would buy it"- but rightly or wrongly, if a business has run out of money (if/speculation) then it is too late and more extreme measures need to be taken to re-float the business. Speculation Bill, or do you know something we don't? The Sharman comparison isn't valid. Slaters and Colin Ashby ran their ranges successfully but it seems, IIRC, that from the moment they were taken over by CooperCraft, things didn't work. The moulding machine allegedly didn't accept the moulds and one or the other needed adapting. That's where it appears to have got stuck. Jol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 It is all very well for people here to say "but if he had xyz available then I would buy it"- but rightly or wrongly, if a business has run out of money (if/speculation) then it is too late and more extreme measures need to be taken to re-float the business.The real truth is that most Joes are clueless when it comes to any business valuation and have a tendency to get emotional when it comes to a hobby "business". They pay far too much for tools, stock and goodwill which are really often worthless. The "retiring" owner has spent many hours of his life building up a personal business often failing along the way to run it with any business acumen failing to charge and take a reasonable profit. The knowledge often cannot be passed on and often the processes and management are poorly documented in the belief that such things do not matter. They also have this incorrect notion that on sale they will net a large lump sum that will give them some retirement capital. The new owner often has similar limited business sense believes it will run as a going concern with little effort in time other than fulfilling the many orders and watching the cash pour in. They frequently are clueless in sales and marketing and frequently have little of the engineering specialism that the original owner had. The world also changes. Old techniques and equipment are redundant, people use the internet, and communication is electronic whereas it used to be postal - people are more impatient and fickle. Labour used to be cheap now everyone thinks they should be paid the rate of bankers, the odd job that used to be done as a favour now costs £100's but everyone still expects it for next to nothing. Isn't time we started to let go? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium skipepsi Posted February 5, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 5, 2015 The real truth is that most Joes are clueless when it comes to any business valuation and have a tendency to get emotional when it comes to a hobby "business". They pay far too much for tools, stock and goodwill which are really often worthless. The "retiring" owner has spent many hours of his life building up a personal business often failing along the way to run it with any business acumen failing to charge and take a reasonable profit. The knowledge often cannot be passed on and often the processes and management are poorly documented in the belief that such things do not matter. They also have this incorrect notion that on sale they will net a large lump sum that will give them some retirement capital. The new owner often has similar limited business sense believes it will run as a going concern with little effort in time other than fulfilling the many orders and watching the cash pour in. They frequently are clueless in sales and marketing and frequently have little of the engineering specialism that the original owner had. The world also changes. Old techniques and equipment are redundant, people use the internet, and communication is electronic whereas it used to be postal - people are more impatient and fickle. Labour used to be cheap now everyone thinks they should be paid the rate of bankers, the odd job that used to be done as a favour now costs £100's but everyone still expects it for next to nothing. Isn't time we started to let go? I think we have run through this before, without communication from the man at the centre of the storm there is nothing useful left to say.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I think there are a few exceptions to the above, but largely you're right. As for 'letting go'- I disagree. (if you are talking about cottage suppliers as a whole that is) they CAN be made profitable- maybe not substantially so and maybe not even a full time business, but some have shown that it CAN be done. There is another supplier that is regularly praised for being innovative with technology and a little while back I bought wheel sets from them for a Bachmann unit- but they last updated their web blog some few years ago- how many people have seen that and assumed they no longer trade? Kenton is right with the lack of business acumen these days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 By way of contrast to the above, can I compare to the comments on the web page of another supplier: Please note!.. [COMPANYNAME} is a one man operation and whilst every effort is made to answer telephone calls and emails there will be times during busy exhibition periods when it is simply not possible to answer all enquiries.. my apologies in advance for this! *There will be limited (if any) telephone service on the Friday prior to and the Monday following an exhibition How can you fault that? Would I be happy handing over my card details to that company if I was unable to get through to them on the 'phone or they didn't answer my email? The answer is absolutely yes. Why? Because he is being straight with people. (I have no connection with the above other than a very satisfied customer) If somerset kits bloke is reading this- please learn from that other company. He is showing that with hard work you CAN make a go of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 By coincidence I visited the aforementioned trader on Tuesday and later reflected on this thread. First class service by the way. (Edit; For clarity, the trader mentioned by Derek in the post above). One thing which struck me was the high level of stock organisation and control required. A large catalogue of small parts, each with it's own bin or shelf space. Everything found at will, bar coded and read off as sold. Mail orders being made, a website showing actual stock levels and, from my own experience, delivery within a couple of days. Running such a business requires far more than enthusiasm, also essential are business acumen, excellent organisational ability and the willingness to engage with customers. You can buy a business, you can't necessarily run one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted February 5, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 5, 2015 Arthur, just to be clear you are talking about the nameless business mentioned in post 408 and not the subject of this thread? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Sorry Colin, to be clear, yes, the business mentioned in 408, a complete contrast to the sorry experience many have had with the main subject of this thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike morley Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I bought what might well turn out to be the last ever Barnum kit from him not long after he took over the Blacksmith range (The box was wearing Cove Model Shop stickers). When I got it home and opened it up I winced when I found an extremely "old technology" chassis with cut-outs for a Triang X04. I happened to mention this archaic chassis to him at the next exhibition both he and I attended and was informed that he was about to release an all-singing-all-dancing, extremely hi-tech replacement. It had, apparently, only just missed being available for that very exhibition but would be on sale within a matter of weeks. It was the best part of two years before I saw him again and when I asked about the continued non-appearance of this chassis I was told he had been "busy in the garden". Talk to any trader who attempts to stock his kits and see how often the phrase "Busy in the garden" is mentioned! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Does he live in a tower block in Peckham, with a yellow three wheeler parked outside? Does he have a habit of leaning against gaps in the bar in a pub? Sounds a bit like him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigw Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I'd agree. With the exception of the Bedford lorry, the range was well detailed and easy to assemble in both 4 & 7mm scales. Still easily as good as modern Parkside. The sprues of tools were especially useful and there's nothing to replace them on the market at the moment. No Phil, they are nowhere near as good as the modern Parkside kits. The underframes on the GWR Coopercraft kits are a bizarre arrangement that is certainly not useful to anyone who wants to do something apart from out of the box. The brakegear is lousy and many of the kits require fairly extensive surgery to correct errors too. They were very good for the time and are still excellent models but the newest Parkside kits really are superb. Craigw Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 In the vague assumption: He will get the email; he will know how to download it; he will be able to see it among all the other unread emails; he will bother to read it; he even cares about it; .... It amazes me that anyone still bothers. Kenton I wondered what I have been missing all these weeks, and these few pearls of wisdom have hit the nail on the head, shame though as he has some nice kits Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 shame though as he has some nice kits Even that statement may have to be modified - he may have had some nice kits, but see statement made in a model shop last week (see http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/66297-news-from-cooper-craftblacksmithslaterskirk-lnermailcoach-kits/?p=1762909) says that the quality is markedly declining. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike morley Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Does he live in a tower block in Peckham, with a yellow three wheeler parked outside? Does he have a habit of leaning against gaps in the bar in a pub? Sounds a bit like him. No. He's not Del-boy-like dodgy. He's a bit like the kind of country vicar you'd find in a classic 1970's comedy - not quite on the same plane of reality as everyone else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Not sure of many 1970's vicars taking money from people knowing (or should know) that they cannot deliver the goods. But I take your point. No. He's not Del-boy-like dodgy. He's a bit like the kind of country vicar you'd find in a classic 1970's comedy - not quite on the same plane of reality as everyone else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 But it is nevertheless a great pity that ten days or more that Andy Y has tried to help him out (for not the first time) and nearly a fortnight since he attended the Southampton show where the the complaints on the thread were pointed out to him that Kits from Somerset hasn't even been on RMweb - last visit was 28 October 2013. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Waiting for parts fro his computer ?? Very sad situation for all concerned . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted February 5, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 5, 2015 But it is nevertheless a great pity that ten days or more that Andy Y has tried to help him out (for not the first time) and nearly a fortnight since he attended the Southampton show where the the complaints on the thread were pointed out to him that Kits from Somerset hasn't even been on RMweb - last visit was 28 October 2013. Yes, busy in the garden I believe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spitfire2865 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 No Phil, they are nowhere near as good as the modern Parkside kits. The underframes on the GWR Coopercraft kits are a bizarre arrangement that is certainly not useful to anyone who wants to do something apart from out of the box. The brakegear is lousy and many of the kits require fairly extensive surgery to correct errors too. They were very good for the time and are still excellent models but the newest Parkside kits really are superb. Craigw I believe Phil was talking about the Slaters 4mm kits. The Midland and PO wagon kits. Not the Coopercraft GWR kits. Those kits are honestly very good and simple. Impossible to even build one wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 hasn't even been on RMweb - last visit was 28 October 2013.Even Kenton wasn't away that long!! Actually, I don't think he cares what is said here, I'm no sure he cares about anything to do with the business. I'm sure there will be celebrations if he does finally return to business, but I have my doubts. In the meantime I'd rather just forget (sorry for those owed money) but there are other businesses out there that are worth praising and having our support. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 No. He's not Del-boy-like dodgy. He's a bit like the kind of country vicar you'd find in a classic 1970's comedy - not quite on the same plane of reality as everyone else. ...or probably failed to board the plane in the first place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Phil Parker Posted February 6, 2015 Administrators Share Posted February 6, 2015 I believe Phil was talking about the Slaters 4mm kits. The Midland and PO wagon kits. Not the Coopercraft GWR kits. Those kits are honestly very good and simple. Impossible to even build one wrong. I wasn't actually, I've never been a fan of the Slaters PO wagons as the sides are too thick and lack interior detail. I hadn't realised the Cooper Craft kits were so offensivley inaccurate - I just thought they looked OK and went together very well. Obviously there are some wagons I need to remove from the stock box and smash up now... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethashenden Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 No Phil, they are nowhere near as good as the modern Parkside kits. The underframes on the GWR Coopercraft kits are a bizarre arrangement that is certainly not useful to anyone who wants to do something apart from out of the box. The brakegear is lousy and many of the kits require fairly extensive surgery to correct errors too. They were very good for the time and are still excellent models but the newest Parkside kits really are superb. Craigw The GWR 4 plank, when assembled per instructions, has 4 planks on the outside and only 3 on the inside. The floor is far too high. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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