RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted April 1, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 1, 2018 What would happen if you replaced the fiddle yard with an extension to another layout on a Tim Horn baseboard. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/132853-a-nod-to-polfairol/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted April 1, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 1, 2018 By accident we've ended up here today... 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Tim Dubya Posted April 1, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 1, 2018 By accident we've ended up here today... IMAG4010.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgman Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 Didn't get the (P4) point finished either ? I spy with my little eye a Lazy Sunday Afternoon ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted April 1, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 1, 2018 Our Microwave oven just expired in a large flash and a loud bang! Trip to the shops tomorrow then... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 Our Microwave oven just expired in a large flash and a loud bang! Trip to the shops tomorrow then... Looking forward to that with mine. It has soldiered on for probably 25 years. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted April 1, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 1, 2018 Looking forward to that with mine. It has soldiered on for probably 25 years. John This one has lasted a good 12-13 years. RIP Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeHemmings Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 This may be regrettable but my microwave is 33 years old and still going. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 At least you get a free painting turntable - you won’t get that with the new one! Best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted April 1, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 1, 2018 Novice answer... A Facing Point Lock (FPL) is applied on turnouts where the blades could be moved in the face of an oncoming passenger train. The mechanism seems to me to have several features: 1. It physically locks the blades in the position of either normal or reverse. Until the lock was released by the signalman the turnout could not be changed. 2. Three bits of rodding, one from each of the blade tips and the locking stretcher(?) confirm that each part is in the right location - ie all normal or reverse. This presumably would detect a broken stretcher bar and both blades being against stock rails. 3. Links in to the signalling so that unless everything is OK the signal to travel over the turnout can't be released A FPL Bar is an extra safety device that registers the presence of a train before/on the turnout and prevents the route being changed. They needed to be slightly longer then the longest stock wheelbase, so by the time Bulleid coaches were introduced the standard appears to be 50'6". Terminology all wrong but I think that's about it. The primary requirement was that there should be something to prevent a facing point being moved while being traversed by a passenger train. With a FPL operated by a second lever this was normally assumed sufficient to prevent accidental operation particularly as once a move over the point was signalled the signals should hold the lever through the interlocking. The fouling bars are a means of locking the point by the presence of a vehicle. If a train was to stop partially across the point there could be a danger of the signals being restored releasing the locking and allowing the point to be operated if the fouling bars were not there to protect the train. Don In the interest of pedantry and accuracy I'll take Spams basically correct explanation and clarify the terminology and working of the various parts. First tho' I'll repost part of a drawing which has appeared previously in this thread but will help with explanations when you get to the text. So we'll start with naming of the parts. Facing point locking has been required on lines used by passenger trains for many years - going right back into the latter part of the 19th century and the development of a method of securing points for the safe passage of passenger trains appeared following the disastrous derailment at Wigan in 1873. It was recognised that two features were needed these being a means of ensuring that facing points were correctly closed and prevented from moving and, closely associated with that something to prevent them moving as a train passed over the points. The first part - stopping the point blades from moving - is achieved by using a locking mechanism in the front stretcher bar of the points and is basically a tongue of metal (described in the above sketch as the plunger) and known usually as 'the bolt' which engages with slots (often described as ports) in the stretcher bar. It is called a Facing Point Lock (FPL) and the mechanism, excluding the stretcher bar but showing the plunger and casting in which it moves can be seen in the photo below And in situ in a point showing its relationship to the stretcher (at its right hand end) This part of the total arrangement still remains in common use in mechanically signalled areas and at ground frame worked facing points on both the national network and on heritage/leisure sector railways. However on its own while the FPL will prevent the points moving, and will only lock them if they are properly closed it cannot do the complete job on its own because there is nothing to prevent a signalman unlocking the points under a passing train if he smartly returns to danger any signals interlocked with the FPL lever in the signalbox. And that takes us to the second part of the mechanism shown against the inside edge of the upper running rail in the sketch above and labelled lock bar (and sometimes called a locking bar). Lock(ing) bars should not be confused with Fouling Bars which serve a very different purpose and would usually have been found beyond the trailing end of a point rather than at the facing end. Some worked in a similar method to that I'm about to describe for the Locking Bar although they were not normally directly connected to pointwork or any signalling equipment. In addition (electric) depression bars could be used as Fouling Bars and they looked very different from a Locking Bar and worked, in effect, in the opposite way. In order to prevent an FPL being unlocked as a train passed over the points the usual arrangement was for the rodding from the signalbox to connect to the Lock Bar and for it in turn to work the FPL via further rodding - in the sketch above that rodding is activated by the rocking shaft at the left end of the bar adjacent to the point toe. In order to unlock the FPL the rodding from the signalbox caused the Lock Bar to rise and as it rose the motion was transferred to the FPL bolt which withdrew from the port in the stretcher bar. Once that had happened the points could be moved by the separate rod which operated them (in some designs a single rod worked the whole lot). The important thing to note is that in order to release the bolt from the port in the stretcher bar the Lock Bar has to rise - and it can't do that if there is a wheel on it. Thus a passing train will now physically lock the points as a result of its wheels preventing the Lock Bar from rising. One obvious potential flaw is that a Signalman in a hurry could still potentially return the relevant signal to danger and unlock the points while a train is passing over them and to avoid this two things were done - firstly the splitting signal applying to the points would be kept as close to them as possible and the Lock Bar would extend for the distance between the signal and the points. AND the Lock Bar would have to be as long as the longest distance between any pair of wheels in any passenger train likely to travel over those points pass - the introduction of 70 foot vehicles meant that in some cases Lock Bars had to be extended. If the signal is right up at the point toe - as in the Padstow example shown in Chris's post - then the Lock Bar is moved inside the points and if both routes are used by a passenger trains there will be a Lock Bar for each switch rail. In very difficult sites outside Lock Bars, basically working in the same manner but on the outside edge of the running rail would be used. and in some layouts involving successive facing points but only one splitting signal additional Lock Bars were included to ensure that routes were locked. The Lock Bar wasn't the simplest mechanism in the world and needed regular maintenance and adjustment thus they were a prime candidate for replacement by track circuits - which could also extend the area over which the points were locked. There were plenty of Lock Bars around, even on main line routes, into the 1960s but signalling modernisation really bit into the remaining ones during the 1960s/70s and I believe the last one on the national network went sometime in the past 5 to 10 years but it had become ver ,much a loan survivor some while before that. Item 2 in the list posted by Chris refers to detection and can also be seen in the sketch above plus my photo. The images below show further how the detection rodding is arranged (the hand lever working the point was a temporary arrangement pending completion of the signalbox). The last line of defence is in the Rule Book and in summary it requires that a Signalman shall not replace to danger a signal protecting a facing point until the whole of the train has passed beyond that point. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted April 2, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 2, 2018 Superb explanation Mike. It could really do with copying into its own thread in the track area and that thread being made a sticky at the top of the list. Now if anyone has any bright ideas on how best to represent all these parts in 7mm, without creating a short and without making the turnout too stiff to operate with a point motor than would be appreciated. Any a follow on question to those who have been here before in 7mm - what options are there for etched or cast point rodding cranks and compensators etc? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 I got a bunch of stools and cranks fro Hobby Holidays: http://www.hobbyholidays.co.uk/products.php?cat=119 I haven't done anything with them yet. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisbr Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 Any a follow on question to those who have been here before in 7mm - what options are there for etched or cast point rodding cranks and compensators etc? C&L do cranks and compensators either as solid castings, or as kits of bits which can be made to work with care (cut down 16BA screws acting as pivots for the clevis pins). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted April 2, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 2, 2018 C&L do cranks and compensators either as solid castings, or as kits of bits which can be made to work with care (cut down 16BA screws acting as pivots for the clevis pins). Many thanks for this. Do you know if they still do them? Some of the castings in the original range, such as the tie-bar mounts, don't appear to be in the current owner's range. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisbr Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 Many thanks for this. Do you know if they still do them? Some of the castings in the original range, such as the tie-bar mounts, don't appear to be in the current owner's range. They do. I bought some recently at the Basingstoke show, although he didn't have any spare clevis pins. Not sure about the tie bar mounts as I have taken a different route there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted April 2, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 2, 2018 Modelu make point rodding stools. I have used the 4mm version and they are excellent www.modelu3d.co.uk/product-category/detailing-components/infrastructure-detailing/point-rodding/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted April 2, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 2, 2018 They do. I bought some recently at the Basingstoke show, although he didn't have any spare clevis pins. Not sure about the tie bar mounts as I have taken a different route there. Just had a look on the c&l website, to do the layout rodding using their cranks and compensators will cost £100s. Looks like I need to find another route. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 Modelu make point rodding stools. I have used the 4mm version and they are excellent www.modelu3d.co.uk/product-category/detailing-components/infrastructure-detailing/point-rodding/ Only trouble is they would be gw type not LSWR/SR ones. Chris Southwark bridge do LSWR stools etc as etching. The range is with Roxey. Not look to see if he's selling everything as yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Tim Dubya Posted April 3, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 3, 2018 Only trouble is they would be gw type not LSWR/SR ones. Chris Southwark bridge do LSWR stools etc as etching. The range is with Roxey. Not look to see if he's selling everything as yet. Only 4mm at the moment, although you could ask Dave. http://www.roxeymouldings.co.uk/product/883/sbm4028-lswr/sr-point-rodding-stools/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted April 3, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 3, 2018 Only trouble is they would be gw type not LSWR/SR ones. Chris Southwark bridge do LSWR stools etc as etching. The range is with Roxey. Not look to see if he's selling everything as yet. 7mm ones are on his website but listed as not available. Only 4mm at the moment, although you could ask Dave.http://www.roxeymouldings.co.uk/product/883/sbm4028-lswr/sr-point-rodding-stools/ I've just sent Dave an email Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted April 3, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 3, 2018 In note that Jinty has used MSE compensators and cranks. Can't seem to get anything from the Wizard Models website, just blank pages on the products side: https://www.wizardmodels.ltd But an older MSE version of the site seems to carry a product listing... http://www.modelsignals.com/7mm_scale_frame.htm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Worsdell forever Posted April 3, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 3, 2018 Seems there's a problem with the site, looks like he's on to it though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted April 3, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 3, 2018 Ambis do a few rodding bits too: http://www.hobbyholidays.co.uk/products.php?cat=119 Seems there's a problem with the site, looks like he's on to it though. Not just me then! Thanks for the confirmation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Worsdell forever Posted April 3, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 3, 2018 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/94044-wizardcomet/?p=3113066 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted April 3, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 3, 2018 7mm ones are on his website but listed as not available. I've just sent Dave an email Had replies from Dave, 7mm etches are in stock and I've placed an order. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts