Sheffield Exchange, Toy trains, music and fun!

[Clive Mortimore]

3 hours ago, jazzer said:

 

Hi Mr Troll, (Fol-de Rol!)

 

Crews for steam locomotives : Depends on the age of the driver and type of loco. One old Nine Elms driver told me that in steam days, at the age of 60 they had the option of coming off the mileage jobs and going on regular day work, which basically meant ECS workings in and out of Waterloo, where, as he so eloquently put it, the driver could just "sit at the end of the platform,  puff on his pipe, look at the crumpet , and watch the world go by" . Translate that to OO gauge and you could have your tank engines coming in bunker first with the driver looking towards the front of the engine and therefore looking at the train to make sure all is in order. He has been in the platform a thousand times before and knows exactly where to make the brake application entering the platform to bring the train to a halt 6 feet from the buffers, so he doesn't need to look, He is then in a perfect  pose to "watch the crumpet go by ", and facing the front of the engine ready for departure. The fireman could be looking through to rear spectacle plate as they enter the platform to keep a look out entering the platform or to check the coal as they leave but a fireman putting some coal in is not wholly unrealistic. Picture this scenario :  -  the journey's end is Sheffield Exchange and he has to keep the engine quiet and stop it blowing off in the station or loco yard so he stopped putting coal in several miles away to run the fire down and run  in with a small fire and a half empty boiler.  Approaching the station he fills the boiler with cold water to knock the boiler pressure down  , closes the dampers and fills the firebox with fresh coal which  will take a long time to burn through while the dampers are shut, so the engine wont be blowing off in the yard.  Before he leaves the loco yard for the next trip he sticks some more coal  under the firebox door and back corners which will then burn through very quickly with the dampers wide open, to bring the boiler back up to full pressure. You can often see them shovelling coal in at Sheffield Park shortly before departure, for example.

 

. Coupling, uncoupling and cleaning ash from the smoke box could present a problem for your plastic card engine crews 

Thanks Jazzer

 

They are the sort of poses I have in mind.

 

As for locomen eyeing up the crumpet, we have had problems in the past because of that. No one was concentrating in the station or on the train. The parcels boy Peter's had trained the station cat to look all coy when there were young ladies about so they would make a fuss and he could then (try) and chat them up. It was doing its intended roll and had a group of "dolly birds" around it when the 2 P went through the buffers.

 

 

I did once make an uncoupler out of clear plastic card. I cut an Airfix figure in half (head to toe) and stuck the two halves either side of the uncoupler. I had a model shunter who could uncouple wagons. At one show as I went to uncouple some wagons the guy on the Hornby Doblo layout next to me burst out laughing and said "And I thought we were playing trains".

[St Enodoc]

2 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Lookie 'ere UDJ, I knew wot U were trying to do. I am only as daft as I look.

Or, as my grandad used to say, "I'm not so green as I'm cabbage-looking".

[jazzer]

11 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Thanks Jazzer

 

They are the sort of poses I have in mind.

 

As for locomen eyeing up the crumpet, we have had problems in the past because of that. No one was concentrating in the station or on the train. The parcels boy Peter's had trained the station cat to look all coy when there were young ladies about so they would make a fuss and he could then (try) and chat them up. It was doing its intended roll and had a group of "dolly birds" around it when the 2 P went through the buffers.

 

 

I did once make an uncoupler out of clear plastic card. I cut an Airfix figure in half (head to toe) and stuck the two halves either side of the uncoupler. I had a model shunter who could uncouple wagons. At one show as I went to uncouple some wagons the guy on the Hornby Doblo layout next to me burst out laughing and said "And I thought we were playing trains".

 

If you want absulute realism look at the picture of a real B1 posted by Tony Wright on the Peterborough North thread last Sunday. In line with the smoke box there is a train spotter balanced precariously on a wall about 8ft high ready to fall and crack his skull open.  Oh, the daft things we have all done before before Elf an Sayfti came along, but there is your prototype. Will you be the first one to model such a scene in Sheffield Exchange ? Go on I dare you !

 

Also, it is yet another loco picture where you can’t see the crew.  In model form it is a fine balance whether to have no loco crew because half the time you can’t see them anyway,  or a driver and fireman that look like statues. 

[Clive Mortimore]

1 hour ago, jazzer said:

 

If you want absulute realism look at the picture of a real B1 posted by Tony Wright on the Peterborough North thread last Sunday. In line with the smoke box there is a train spotter balanced precariously on a wall about 8ft high ready to fall and crack his skull open.  Oh, the daft things we have all done before before Elf an Sayfti came along, but there is your prototype. Will you be the first one to model such a scene in Sheffield Exchange ? Go on I dare you !

 

Also, it is yet another loco picture where you can’t see the crew.  In model form it is a fine balance whether to have no loco crew because half the time you can’t see them anyway,  or a driver and fireman that look like statues. 

Hi Jazzer

 

I am not too sure of modelling daft trainspotters. Did you know that was the wall that "Sir" use to trainspot from when visiting his relatives at Retford. Mr Duck pointed that out to me when we went to look at some plastic trains. It is lower towards the end of the platform where the crossover was.

 

I know what you mean about the crew not always being visible, because they are busy not hanging out the windows and cut outs. That can work for tank engines and the likes of BR standards with their tender cabs but for most others the 45 degree view into the back of the cab from over the tender their absence is worrying.   

Edited March 13, 2019 by Clive Mortimore

[great northern]

1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Jazzer

 

I am not too sure of modelling daft trainspotters. Did you know that was the wall that "Sir" use to trainspot from when visiting his relatives at Retford. Mr Duck pointed that out to me when we went to look at some plastic trains. It is lower towards the end of the platform where the crossover was.

 

I know what you mean about the crew not always being visible, because they are busy not hanging out the windows and cut outs. That can work for tank engines and the likes of BR standards with their tender cabs but for most others the 45 degree view into the back of the cab from over the tender their absence is worrying.   

Sir was not the only one to vist that wall Clive, but I would have been far too timid to do what that lad did. One could also sit under that platform, which we did once when it was snowing, and we'd been chucked off the station. After a large rat stole one of my sandwiches, we left hurriedly.

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

4 hours ago, jazzer said:

 

no loco crew because half the time you can’t see them anyway...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePpG4tVHSMQ&t=357s

 

5:25... no crew!

[Clive Mortimore]

8 hours ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePpG4tVHSMQ&t=357s

 

5:25... no crew!

Well that's Aussies for you.

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi All

 

Mr Troll here again. I have had a great time running trains on Sheffield Exchange using DC. At one point there were two trains running on the mainline, a class 24 slowly backing down on to a non -gangway set in platform 4 and a class 37 gently easing itself on to the fuel point. Four trains./locos running independently without a decoder in sight. 

 

Thinking about decoders, I have 30 multiple units and 27 locos out for this operating session, how much would that have cost to fit decoders in them? This does not include the DMUs and locos that are considered layout stock that are in their boxes, nor the "could run but not normally layout locos and units" or those that are not layout locos/trains but I might like to run some times.

 

Only a couple of operator errors and no derailments.

Edited March 13, 2019 by Clive Mortimore

[Satan's Goldfish]

I think the average decoder cost these days is £20. So £20 × 57 stock items = £1140. However sound chips are roughly £100 if you want to hear some hard chuffing and revving as stock leaves the exchange, £100 × 57 = £5700....

[Stubby47]

But that £100 doesn't include speakers... which sound chips really need if you actually want to hear anything.

 

[Satan's Goldfish]

Valid point. So how much is an average speaker?

[Clive Mortimore]

On 14/03/2019 at 04:40, Satan's Goldfish said:

I think the average decoder cost these days is £20. So £20 × 57 stock items = £1140. However sound chips are roughly £100 if you want to hear some hard chuffing and revving as stock leaves the exchange, £100 × 57 = £5700....

 

On 14/03/2019 at 07:14, Stubby47 said:

But that £100 doesn't include speakers... which sound chips really need if you actually want to hear anything.

 

Luckily I can go Brummmm Brummmmm and Chuff Chuff.

 

I might be a full Luddite but I can do all I want to do with DC, have trains running and shunt at the same time.

Edited March 15, 2019 by Clive Mortimore

[Andrew P]

3 hours ago, Satan's Goldfish said:

Valid point. So how much is an average speaker?

About £6 each, but a really really good one may be a tenner.

[newbryford]

I get both sides of DC and DCC.

 

But the one thing that irks me is the oft-trotted out "argument" that it cost XXX pounds to convert a large collection.

Yes - of course it does - it's a fact.

But that's why I believe if you have a large collection - and intend to use most of it - it doesn't make sense to go DCC unless you are willing to spend money.

 

It's a different matter when starting out a new project, with new stock, the decoders can be installed "as and when" the new item is commissioned into use, thus minimising the outlay over a period of time.

 

Sound is another cost that is considered as an "extra" above and beyond DC.

Utter b*ll*cks!

 

If you want sound in DC [*], then sound decoders can be fitted and the cost is the same as DCC - so it is not an extra cost unique to DCC - but you won't have the same functionality as with using DCC, so there is no real point in having DC sound. IMO

 

 

Cheers,

Mick

 

[*] Unless you count Hornby's sandpaper on a cam as "sound".....

 

 

[Clive Mortimore]

1 hour ago, newbryford said:

I get both sides of DC and DCC.

 

But the one thing that irks me is the oft-trotted out "argument" that it cost XXX pounds to convert a large collection.

Yes - of course it does - it's a fact.

But that's why I believe if you have a large collection - and intend to use most of it - it doesn't make sense to go DCC unless you are willing to spend money.

 

It's a different matter when starting out a new project, with new stock, the decoders can be installed "as and when" the new item is commissioned into use, thus minimising the outlay over a period of time.

 

Sound is another cost that is considered as an "extra" above and beyond DC.

Utter b*ll*cks!

 

If you want sound in DC [*], then sound decoders can be fitted and the cost is the same as DCC - so it is not an extra cost unique to DCC - but you won't have the same functionality as with using DCC, so there is no real point in having DC sound. IMO

 

 

Cheers,

Mick

 

[*] Unless you count Hornby's sandpaper on a cam as "sound".....

 

 

Hi Mick

 

I do not disagree.

 

Just having a DC moment after being called a troll by those willing to share their knowledge but not their modelling. And repeated daft comments like "With DCC you drive the trains not the track". Plus I think our friend who opened that thread is going to be persuaded to buy a system which he will struggle with, that is not fair on him. Did you see his other thread regarding curved points?

 

Edit.....Guess who is going to make his own sandpaper cams?

Edited March 14, 2019 by Clive Mortimore

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

17 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Edit.....Guess who is going to make his own sandpaper cams?

 

Are they like web cams, only scratchier?

 

In other news, I spent a lot of today using Excel spreadsheets to illustrate to management what I already knew... we are going down the sh1tter.  So I left early and am now in the shed banging track together to make a goods yard... here's the proof.

 

Edited March 14, 2019 by Dr Gerbil-Fritters

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

not quite finished, but the Junior Ms. Dr. Gerbil-Fritters is making dinner, so I had to go in.

 

 

While I was working on this, I left a sound-equipped diesel ticking over in the loco sidings... was soothing and atmospheric.

[Clive Mortimore]

Back to being a grumpy DC troll. In Mick's wonderful summery he mentions starting a new project. Exchange Mk 2 is a new project. OK I already had the stock, I have added very little to my stash since moving. Some points and track were recovered from older layouts but most was new, all the point motors are new, a large number of the switches are new, the baseboards are all new, a lot of the wire (and there is a lot) is new and the signals (I know not yet fitted) are new. The controllers are all recovered from previous layouts. All up cost was just under £2000. Had I gone DCC?

 

Operationally the most trains that can arrive and depart at the same time is 4 providing there is no conflicting movements. Should such event happen (when lone operating I don't think I would be able to control 4 trains coming  and going at the station) the mainlines would not have anything moving, simply because the trains need to cross the inner track. I do not run more than one train per mainline, could be done but I don't do so.  I am limited to four trains as I only have four controllers wired up, I suppose if I had 4 trains entering and leaving the station I could with DCC also be moving a couple of locos, one in each loco yard but even with DCC would I be able to concentrate on six movements especially when 4 would need me to stop them.

 

The DCC features that seem to attract many have no appeal to me. Sound, tone deaf so a diesel sounds like a diesel. Lights, 1960s? I always run my trains on a sunny 21st June so they wouldn't show until about 10 pm.

 

Some running problems are common to both DCC and DC. I have very few running problems, apart form those induced by my poor operating. I have rewheeled, moved out back to backs or eliminated the stock that liked to trip over the points etc and where it was a track problem I sorted that out. Not sure if DCC would prevent me from making simple errors.

 

Had I totally started a new with a budget of £2000 and gone for DCC control I would have quite an empty train room.

As wired.

[Stubby47]

Clive, you have no-one to justify your decision to. 

 

I read these DC / DCC posts sometimes and wonder who is winding up who. 

 

I fully agree about DCC and sound, especially when nothing else makes a noise, but there are some who like it.

I fully agree about DC too, not just for the cost benefits, but also the simplicity of being able to trace and fix faults. 

 

Enjoy what you do and how you do it.

[eastwestdivide]

3 minutes ago, Stubby47 said:

I read these DC / DCC posts sometimes and wonder who is winding up who.

Surely it's the clockwork guerilla army doing the winding up.

 

And Clive, keep on doing what you're doing. We're enjoying it, to judge by the thumbs-ups on your posts.

[81C]

I'm with you Morty put anything with a chip in it on my layout and the DC electrickerey track cleaners will reduce it to soot the system works well. clever dicky ex SiL done it

when I told him not to and I cook a very expensive chip.

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said:

I always run my trains on a sunny 21st June so they wouldn't show until about 10 pm.

In Sheffield?????

[Clive Mortimore]

2 hours ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

not quite finished, but the Junior Ms. Dr. Gerbil-Fritters is making dinner, so I had to go in.

 

 

While I was working on this, I left a sound-equipped diesel ticking over in the loco sidings... was soothing and atmospheric.

Wot did Junior cook and was it nice?

[Clive Mortimore]

38 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

In Sheffield?????

HI UDJ

 

Good point, I am sure Enterprising Mike will be able to recall when it/if it happened.

 

Anyhow isn't there a railway modellers rule one, surely that can be applied to the weather, whether it is realistic or not.

 

And even more evidence of people making up the weather conditions on their model railway.....pop over to Mr Peters Bala Town, he has muddy puddles suggesting it has just stopped raining.  We all know that Wales is always sunny.  His puddles are nicely modelled and something not many would even think about. But don't tell him I said so.

Edited March 14, 2019 by Clive Mortimore
it

[manna]

G'Day Folks

 

No DCC for me, the closest I come is, I crank up the Gramophone, chuck on a Argos, 33 rmp record, and relive the sound of Gresley's Pacifics belting through Hitchin..........Bliss.

 

manna