well filled baps The Sheep Chronicles : These are the adventures of a Sheep, the Works Forecat and Naughty George,

[NHY 581]

Damn!

 

Spotted.

[NHY 581]

Those of you who are following my ramblings may recall that my main interests lie with the Midland Railway and the dear old L&SWR, via the the glorious S&DJR.......

 

Which leads me onto my first stupid question of the weekend.....

 

Were the Small prairies left or right hand drive? Came to me as I was contemplating the placing of crews in the three that I have...

 

Rob

[Mallard60022]

I suspect left, for signal sighting purposes.

P

[Stubby47]

Those of you who are following my ramblings may recall that my main interests lie with the Midland Railway and the dear old L&SWR, via the the glorious S&DJR.......

Which leads me onto my first stupid question of the weekend.....

Were the Small prairies left or right hand drive? Came to me as I was contemplating the placing of crews in the three that I have...

Rob

The drivers were on the left side and the right side ( as the left is the right side, and the right is the wrong side...)

[Mallard60022]

The drivers were on the left side and the right side ( as the left is the right side, and the right is the wrong side...)

They were correct and could see the fences from there too ; especially those imprisoned in Dartmoor Prison (Princetown).

A little known fact is that my late dad was in Dartmoor Prison on several occasions...........................

Q

[buffalo]

I suspect left, for signal sighting purposes.

P

 Tut, tut, this is the GWR! Right hand drive was good enough for Daniel Gooch and none of his successors saw fit to change it.

 

Nick

[NHY 581]

The drivers were on the left side and the right side ( as the left is the right side, and the right is the wrong side...)

Thanks, Stubbers. However, pretty dense this morning. Is this looking from the rear to the front of the loco or from the front to cab.......Doh!

[Coombe Barton]

Bit of detail here

 

http://www.railsimulator.com/support-assets/0a8e79f60074c0dccf7b770012832bf2/GWR%20Small%20Prairies%20Manual%20EN.pdf

[Coombe Barton]

And a footplate http://www.gwsr.com/footplate/VirtualFootplate.html

 

You couldn't operate the regulator from the left

[gwrrob]

When I had my footplate trip on Goliath 5239 last year the driver was on the right looking at the chimney.I know because I stood right behind him.

[Mallard60022]

That's interesting. I couldn't remember. So if signals were on the left side (mostly?) how come the driver was on the right? Was it some  tradition that they would not change or was there a good scientific reason?

P

[NHY 581]

Tut, tut, this is the GWR! Right hand drive was good enough for Daniel Gooch and none of his successors saw fit to change it.

 

Nick

Hang on......are we saying right hand drive fir the prairies.....

 

Confused...doesn't take much this morning. .

 

Rob

[NHY 581]

See Buffalo's important correction please. Just to add to the fray, some LSWR classes were LH drive, others RH drive. The MR was RH drive, but LMS built examples ie the 4F and 7Fs were built LH drive. It is easy to spot as the vacuum ejector down the side of the boiler was on the driver's side on MR designed locos. Actually applies to GWR tender engines as well.

Edit. Position is as seen from cab looking forward.

Thanks Paul. Pretty good with Midland etc but Western stuff is new to me.

 

Rob

[colin penfold]

That's interesting. I couldn't remember. So if signals were on the left side (mostly?) how come the driver was on the right? Was it some  tradition that they would not change or was there a good scientific reason?

P

 

I thought it was one of the fireman's jobs to sight signals?

[buffalo]

That's interesting. I couldn't remember. So if signals were on the left side (mostly?) how come the driver was on the right? Was it some  tradition that they would not change or was there a good scientific reason?

P

 

Perhaps not quite as difficult as it sounds. Drivers would want to look as far ahead as possible so signal sighting would not be difficult from the right hand side unless the engine was very close to, or alongside, the signal. Signals might be less easy to see on left hand curves but, where necessary, signals could be placed on the right to aid visiblity. The rule books made it clear that observing signals was the drivers responsibility but the fireman was expected to look out for signals when he wasn't shovelling.

 

Hang on......are we saying right hand drive fir the prairies.....

 

Definitely, it was a GWR engine.

 

Nick

[Coombe Barton]

More these will fill in the answer

• http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewtopic.php?f=222&t=92020
• http://cdn.akamai.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/277753/manuals/GWR_Small_Prairies_Manual.pdf?t=1418217674page 25

[NHY 581]

Picking up on a point raised earlier, was it the norm then to have the signals sited to the left?

I apologise for what may be daft questions but want to try to avoid making a horse's arse of some basic stuff.

 

Rob

[NHY 581]

As per.......

[The Stationmaster]

Picking up on a point raised earlier, was it the norm then to have the signals sited to the left?

I apologise for what may be daft questions but want to try to avoid making a horse's arse of some basic stuff.

 

Rob

Yes, no, maybe (I thought you'd like a comprehensive and honest answer).  In reality in general British railways tended to put signals to the left of the line to which they applied and in BR days that became the norm - albeit with occasional exceptions.  The real point of the back of all this is whatever the normal practice might be the critical thing was to try to ensure that Drivers of trains approaching signals had the best possible view of them - nowadays there is even a laid down standard for the length of time during which they can see a signal as they approach it.

 

In addition to sighting (i.e. the Driver sighting the signal) there was also the matter of siting (i.e. where the signal is put) and this can introduce complications as it depends on the available sites and possibly even the ability of the ground to securely hold bracket or gantry structures.  Thus it was not at all unusual in the semaphore era to find signal on the 'wrong' side and some Railways made a positive habit of it in Pre-Group days.  Things got more unified after the Grouping but the GWR still tended to go in for quite a lot of right hand sited signals - right up to the end of the main semaphore - where such siting benefitted sighting or if there happened to be no alternative.

 

So you could get an example such as the Up Main Through Line at Reading where Reading Main Line West's Advanced Starting Signal was not only on the left but was beyond another line on the left while the next signal, Main Line East's Home, was on the right followed by Main Line East's Inner Home which was also on the right but its starting Signal was back on the left.  This sort of thing then continued for the next 5 miles through Sonning and Twyford cuttings with many Up Main Line signals being on the right purely for siting reasons although a few were on the left.

 

Hope that helps a bit

 

PS Just to amuse I have checked the situation at Gara Bridge and while you see a signal to the left of the line to which it applies the one in the background is on the right (having replaced, at renewal, a signal which was previously on the left)!

Edited January 31, 2015 by The Stationmaster

[NHY 581]

Recent spare time has been taken up with a trip by motorcycle to Germany.

 

However, the Shallow Ford branch is not forgotten. Hopefully I will have some updates on the week end.

 

Rob.

[Mallard60022]

Did you use the machine from The Great Escape and was it thus that you remained there for some time?

Quackers. 

[NHY 581]

There was a tunnel involved and I was on a Triumph but escape was successful this time. Decided to head for the coast. Assisted by members of the Marquis and large dollops of good old British pluck.......

 

 

Try this for something different....

 

http://speedtracktales.com/index-of-isdt-events/isdt-1939-germany/

 

Rob

Edited March 5, 2015 by nhy581

[NHY 581]

Well, having well and truly stalled, it does look like there may be some progress today.

 

No, really.

 

I may well have some time today to knock up the main boards for Bamfylde. I have the wood cut ready and have just not had the time to tack it together.

 

Free time has been taken up with all manner of stuff, none of which has been railway related (other than the odd post hereabouts)

 

Actually that's not strictly true. I have gone through my railway magazines....I have now moved on the majority of them, just retaining those no older than 5yrs. Even so, I still have plenty. Without thinking about it, we accumulate a huge selection over time.

I did however keep a few of the older ones back, for some, in my eyes at least, mile stone articles. Bizarrely, a lot were GWR based........mmmm

 

Tapley, Ashburton 2mm, Hintock and all the lovely layouts from the North Devon boys, Jamaica Reach etc.. to name but a few....oh and a few S&D articles.....Bleakhouse Road, Engine Wood, Berrow, Blagdon..Lots of other good stuff as well

 

All good and I applauded my decision to place an armchair in the garage where I store my magazines......and beer.....and a CO player...I had some musical accompaniment to all of this, examples shown below. Not quite in the era of Bamfylde but certainly some were within ten years, which made me stop and think

 

By the way, does anyone recall a LMS layout called ( I think) Pendlebury Town? I remember it in the Modeller in the late seventies.

 

Anyway, stay tuned.....

 

Rob

[colin penfold]

careful with that CO player, you'll do yourself a mischief 

[NHY 581]

Sausage fingers have done their worst, or so it would appear.....

 

Not sure what sort of player one would need for the CO. Will check with his batman and report back...

 

Carry on.

 

Rob