Driving standards

[SM42]

On 24/12/2019 at 18:33, Jol Wilkinson said:

Phil,

 

having spent nearly all my career in the automobile manufacturer/dealer "interface", I know dealer service charges are higher than the local garage or the franchise "specialist" (or were when I retired). In part that's been down to the requirements to provide trained staff, specialist diagnostic equipment, etc. but also to have the brand corporate facilities, free loan cars, courtesy transport, etc. that the customer expects nowadays. The "customer is king" culture has a lot to answer for.

 

I imagine that new car sales unit profit has also suffered from the increase in car sales brokers such as Carwow who take a slice of the dealer margin but don't offer any after sales support.

 

Jol

 

 

I find the franchised dealer charges are on a par with the  independents I would trust.

 

Replacing the wipers on mine for instance, is cheaper (including fitting) at the dealers than  buying from Halfords (other motor factors are available) and fitting yourself

Similarly, replacing brake pads is about the same price as my local trustworthy independent.

 

Headlamps, maybe £3 - £4 more expensive than buying your own, but that includes taking the front bumper off to fit it.

 

Mind you this could all depend on what you drive, my experience has mainly been with Renault and Honda dealerships

 

Andy

Edited December 28, 2019 by SM42

[Sprintex]

I recently had the cambelt done on my 2003 Honda Civic V-tec. The trusted local garage where I always go quoted me "400 quid all in, including tensioner and water pump", but he said it might be a bit more if they have trouble with stuck bolts as it's 16 years old. Fair enough, know that problem well.

 

Honda dealer quoted a reasonable £245 as it's a "national price", but that doesn't include anything else. Why would you NOT change the tensioner and water pump (driven off the timing belt) while it's all apart? This is where they sting you. Tensioner is an extra £170, and water pump an extra £129, but they don't charge any extra labour ( that's nice of them  ), making a total of £544 !!

 

Needless to say it went to the usual garage, who after quoting £400 actually charged me £370 because "all the bolts came out fine". How many garages would've still charged 400 after quoting it? This is why I go there - trust and honesty 

 

Oh, and they even wrote the date and mileage of the cambelt change on the air-filter casing as a handy reminder - nice touch!

 

 

Paul

[Nick C]

5 hours ago, SM42 said:

 

 

I find the franchised dealer charges are on a par with the  independents I would trust.

 

Replacing the wipers on mine for instance, is cheaper (including fitting) at the dealers than  buying from Halfords (other motor factors are available) and fitting yourself

Similarly, replacing brake pads is about the same price as my local trustworthy independent.

 

Headlamps, maybe £3 - £4 more expensive than buying your own, but that includes taking the front bumper off to fit it.

 

Mind you this could all depend on what you drive, my experience has mainly been with Renault and Honda dealerships

 

Andy

I took my car into the main dealer for a recall - while there they did a 'free check' and told me that a wheelbearing and the front brakes needed doing. I let them do the bearing as I don't have the facility to do so myself. When I got it home I checked the brakes, and found they were not much more than half worn - so had I let them do that too I'd have wasted several thousand miles worth of perfectly good brakes... Needless to say I won't be going back there again!

[newbryford]

On 27/12/2019 at 17:26, Coldgunner said:

My car warns me if a lamp is out. But I've found with the headlights, getting out and giving said light a short, sharp whack will bring it back to life. Sometimes the bulbs has worked loose and its enough to see me through till next daylight.

 

I once  tried whacking my windscreen to fix an out of date tax disc...............

 

Didn't work.

[polybear]

3 hours ago, Nick C said:

I took my car into the main dealer for a recall - while there they did a 'free check' and told me that a wheelbearing and the front brakes needed doing. I let them do the bearing as I don't have the facility to do so myself. When I got it home I checked the brakes, and found they were not much more than half worn - so had I let them do that too I'd have wasted several thousand miles worth of perfectly good brakes... Needless to say I won't be going back there again!

 

My OH thought she'd try a certain Toyota Main Dealer in Letchworth for her MOT (having previously used my local & excellent independent, which is a half-hour drive away from her).  Toyota Dealer announced that headlight beam adjustment was a fail, and would she like them adjusted - yes please.

(Bearing in mind the car is in the workshops, bonnet up, beam alignment equipment already sitting in front of the lights)

They present her with a bill for twiddling the adjusting screw with a screwdriver:  thirty five quid (that may have been plus vat too)

When she had a moan about this they said she could have 10% off a service.

I believe she may have told them to "go ***** themselves with the rough end of a pineapple".

 

 

[PhilJ W]

Before I retired my employer had a workshop where all the council vehicles were maintained. Part of the facility was an MoT test centre. Staff and the general public were permitted to use it. Not only did they do the MoT but they made minor adjustments such as brakes and lights, free of charge. Regretably that is no more as the council went over to leasing most of their vehicles.

[Enterprisingwestern]

9 hours ago, polybear said:

 

I believe she may have told them to "go ***** themselves with the rough end of a revolving pineapple".

 

 

 

Amended to the Sheffield version!

 

Mike.

[PhilJ W]

Truly shocking>>

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/hit-run-victims-body-lay-21176252

I passed through the area where it happened a couple of hours after the body was found. Fortunately I was not caught in the traffic jams. The driver has been charged with causing death by dangerous driving, leaving the site of an accident and failing to report an accident. One can't help thinking that the victim could possibly have still been alive and survived if the driver had called the emergency services.

[SM42]

15 hours ago, Nick C said:

I took my car into the main dealer for a recall - while there they did a 'free check' and told me that a wheelbearing and the front brakes needed doing. I let them do the bearing as I don't have the facility to do so myself. When I got it home I checked the brakes, and found they were not much more than half worn - so had I let them do that too I'd have wasted several thousand miles worth of perfectly good brakes... Needless to say I won't be going back there again!

 

I admit some are dodgy.

 

My local Rover dealer (no longer in business for some reason other than Rover going out of business) told me my brakes needed doing at one service. I said I'd leave it for a bit as they weren't all the way down and had " a couple of thousand left in them". They said the same at the next 3 services and on the fourth they said nothing. I asked about the brakes and they said "they were fine." These were still the same brakes I'd left for a bit.  I think I did around 60k on them in the end.  Regardless of the dubious advisory, they were still competitive on service costs.

 

Finding a good one that's local is the key.

 

Andy

[Sprintex]

14 hours ago, polybear said:

My OH thought she'd try a certain Toyota Main Dealer in Letchworth for her MOT . . . 

 

Funnily enough the excellent "local garage" I mentioned in my post is about 100 yards away from that Toyota Dealer - Auto Services in Icknield Way 

 

Paul

[ejstubbs]

14 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

Before I retired my employer had a workshop where all the council vehicles were maintained. Part of the facility was an MoT test centre. Staff and the general public were permitted to use it.

 

According to Moneysavingexpert.com, there are still council-run MoT centres that the public can make use of:

 

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/travel/cheap-mot/#council

 

As it says on that web site: since such places don't do servicing or repairs, they don't have a vested interest in find faults that need fixing.  They do also highlight the potential gotcha that, under the new MOT rules, if your car fails you might not be able to drive it away until it's fixed - which could mean paying to have it transported if you choose a test centre that doesn't do repairs.

[jcm@gwr]

7 minutes ago, ejstubbs said:

 

According to Moneysavingexpert.com, there are still council-run MoT centres that the public can make use of:

 

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/travel/cheap-mot/#council

 

As it says on that web site: since such places don't do servicing or repairs, they don't have a vested interest in find faults that need fixing.  They do also highlight the potential gotcha that, under the new MOT rules, if your car fails you might not be able to drive it away until it's fixed - which could mean paying to have it transported if you choose a test centre that doesn't do repairs.

 

The situation of 'might not be able to drive it away' is normally associated with extreme conditions,

ie structural integrity due to corrosion (unlikely these days unless it's a very old vehicle failure of

brakes/suspension systems or very bald tyres. Most of which should have been fairly obvious before

taking it for it's MOT, so you would only have yourself to blame!

[polybear]

2 hours ago, SM42 said:

 

I admit some are dodgy.

 

My local Rover dealer (no longer in business for some reason other than Rover going out of business) told me my brakes needed doing at one service. I said I'd leave it for a bit as they weren't all the way down and had " a couple of thousand left in them". They said the same at the next 3 services and on the fourth they said nothing. I asked about the brakes and they said "they were fine." These were still the same brakes I'd left for a bit.  I think I did around 60k on them in the end.  Regardless of the dubious advisory, they were still competitive on service costs.

 

Finding a good one that's local is the key.

 

Andy

 

It would've been interesting to point this out to the service manager and ask the reason why they'd been recommending brake renewal.....

[IWCR]

I occasionally use a large countrywide dealer for tyres.

I always ignore their additional "recommendations".

Examples:

Brake Discs badly worn & need replacing:  No they dont, minor edge of rust & dirt outboard of the contact area.

Shock absorbers need replacing,  no they dont, nothing wrong with them.

Tracking badly out & needs doing, tyre produced as evidence worn to the wire on the edge.

No, the tyre wasnt one I just had replaced, not even the same brand.

All these items passed many subsequent MOTs.

 

On fitting a new exhaust silencer:  Wont fit onto the exhaust pipe, new pipe from manifold required.

Show  me,  Give it here, (I fitted it), now just do up the clamps.

The one time I did get them to do the tracking (I had replaced a suspension arm) they made a total dogs of it.

 

I have heard many similar stories from others,  for those who are not familiar with machinery they must get away with a great deal.

 

Someone I know did catch one firm out (also a countrywide firm but not the same one I have used)

He was away from home and damaged a tyre on his car, he took it in to get the tyre replaced.

Whilst doing this they said the shock absorbers were worn and needed replacing.

Oh dear, yes you better do them.

All done and bill presented he then produced from the glove box the receipt for a set of replacement shocks fitted by his local branch of the same firm some 6 months earlier and pointed out the set just fitted must therefore be a warranty replacement.

 

Pete

[polybear]

Let me guess - Quick Fit?

[johnofwessex]

What I dont understand is that Gas work can only be done by someone who is 'Gas Safe' registered and there are restrictions on who can do electrical work but anyone can work on a car.

 

In the same way it would make a lot of sense to require vehicle dealers and repair services to be licensed as they are in New Zealand both for safety & consumer protection reasons

[rockershovel]

How do the French requirements apply, in respect of cars which have moulded integral LED light units?

[rockershovel]

On the subject of servicing and MoT, my Skoda Scout was booked into the local dealer for MoT and various “advisory items” from the previous service. For various reasons, the job ended up with a local Formula 1 franchise which identified them, but didn’t regard any of the “advisories” as requiring immediate attention, although they will all end up being done eventually. 

 

I’d been intending to find another service outlet for some time, now there are no warranty issues to keep up with that car. F1 appear to be the choice. 

[chris p bacon]

9 minutes ago, rockershovel said:

F1 appear to be the choice. 

 

And yet I used them for a couple of tyres on a van and they said the brakes needed replacing ( which was correct), just a few weeks later I had to go in for puncture and they told me the brakes needed replacing......I asked for the money back from the first replacement as they couldn't have done it,  they then backtracked on the need to replace them and said it was 'merely a suggestion'

 

I now use a local garage for everything, if the job is beyond him due to the need for specific equipment he will say so rather than wing it.

[rockershovel]

1 hour ago, chris p bacon said:

 

And yet I used them for a couple of tyres on a van and they said the brakes needed replacing ( which was correct), just a few weeks later I had to go in for puncture and they told me the brakes needed replacing......I asked for the money back from the first replacement as they couldn't have done it,  they then backtracked on the need to replace them and said it was 'merely a suggestion'

 

I now use a local garage for everything, if the job is beyond him due to the need for specific equipment he will say so rather than wing it.

 

I wouldn’t offer blanket approval for ANY motor service chain. The basic structure of the trade appears to act against the interests of the customer in certain respects, not least that it tends to produce unnecessary work which is then “justified” by producing (quite valid, as far as they go) records that the car, as out-shopped, is “up to spec”. I’ve also had very variable results with independents, some are good, some less so. 

 

My general approach is to take a robust attitude, particularly to requesting actual recorded brake wear etc before authorising additional work, and requiring to see ALL replaced parts before paying for service.    

 

These people aren't personal friends, after all. They are paid specialists, carrying out safety-critical activities on major personal assets at no small cost. There is definitely a value in establishing good relations with preferred suppliers, though. 

 

 

Edited December 30, 2019 by rockershovel

[kevinlms]

A bad driving habit that I haven't seen mentioned here before.

 

People driving with their foot on the brake pedal when not required.

 

Yesterday I was behind a 4WD that had the brake lights on continuously for 5km, including going up hills, before I turned off. Very confusing as you don't know when and if, they are really going to actually brake.  All you can do is stay well back, in case they do.

 

They must have very short brake pad life & heavy fuel consumption, because even if they are using the brake pedal as a foot rest, they must slightly apply the brakes at times.

 

Almost certainly, they were driving an automatic, with the left foot on the brake - very nasty as if they brake in an emergency, they probably press hard with both feet, giving lots of power, just when you need to stop!

[rockershovel]

Reverting to the original subject, one thing about living in “Brexit Central” is the mass exodus of contract workers which takes place over Xmas and the New Year. Amazon downsizes rapidly after 23rd Dec, Royal Mail sheds its Christmas casuals; Tesco and IKEA are on short time; Perkins largely shuts down and lays off most of its workforce; the sprouts are in and no one is buying daffodils. 

 

It’s particularly noticeable this year, because the roads are in chaos for miles around - A1, A14, further North the chronic congestion on the M5 and M6; and there are ongoing closures on the railways, especially ECML. I travelled to Stansted by National Express on 14 Dec and was 55 minutes late, having been diverted almost to Bedford. 

 

The taxi driver who picked me up from Norwich on 22nd told me that the perennial exodus of Asian families around this time of year was the biggest he could remember. 

 

The High Street (town centre, that is) seems almost deserted. Anyone who can afford to, goes on holiday between Xmas and early Feb.

 

I can’t remember when I last saw traffic this sparse, although I was out and about on Sunday and the minor A roads between Peterborough, Stamford and Sleaford were surprisingly busy. 

At a guess, I’d attribute this to the combination of a dry, clear Sunday and the dry spell producing a surge in the local passions for car boot sales and angling; “the camouflaged oafs at the riverside, the anorak’d fools at the stall..”

 

The wail and splutter of boy racer hatchbacks, weaving dementedly from Lane to Lane on the Parkway is almost absent; the gridlock of stationary brake lights around the Hampton and A15 exits, largely dispersed; Lincoln Road’s ill-tempered congestion, stilled. 

 

It’s great. We ought to do it every year. 

 

Edited December 30, 2019 by rockershovel

[rockershovel]

32 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

A bad driving habit that I haven't seen mentioned here before.

 

People driving with their foot on the brake pedal when not required.

 

Yesterday I was behind a 4WD that had the brake lights on continuously for 5km, including going up hills, before I turned off. Very confusing as you don't know when and if, they are really going to actually brake.  All you can do is stay well back, in case they do.

 

They must have very short brake pad life & heavy fuel consumption, because even if they are using the brake pedal as a foot rest, they must slightly apply the brakes at times.

 

Almost certainly, they were driving an automatic, with the left foot on the brake - very nasty as if they brake in an emergency, they probably press hard with both feet, giving lots of power, just when you need to stop!

 

When I was working in N Lincs earlier this year, the traffic safety people told me that there was an increasingly widespread habit of driving automatics in Cruise Control, using the brake pedal as a footrest for the right foot. They attributed it to the speed cameras which infest the county’s featureless main roads. 

[polybear]

3 hours ago, rockershovel said:

 

I wouldn’t offer blanket approval for ANY motor service chain. The basic structure of the trade appears to act against the interests of the customer in certain respects, not least that it tends to produce unnecessary work which is then “justified” by producing (quite valid, as far as they go) records that the car, as out-shopped, is “up to spec”. I’ve also had very variable results with independents, some are good, some less so. 

 

 

 

The only thing that Approval would achieve would be to increase the cost of servicing and repairs even further.  There are plenty of poor leccy and gas tradesman around, despite regulation. 

I'd much rather see a widespread (and regular) "spot check" system whereby cars with known faults are submitted for MOT or service and see what the outcome is, with a double five star point system:

First Rating:  0 (Conning B'stad) up to 5 (Dead Honest)

Second Rating: 0 (Hasn't a Clue) up to 5 (Should be on the F1 Circuit).

 

That'd be far more useful

[peanuts]

6 hours ago, kevinlms said:

A bad driving habit that I haven't seen mentioned here before.

 

People driving with their foot on the brake pedal when not required.

 

Yesterday I was behind a 4WD that had the brake lights on continuously for 5km, including going up hills, before I turned off. Very confusing as you don't know when and if, they are really going to actually brake.  All you can do is stay well back, in case they do.

 

They must have very short brake pad life & heavy fuel consumption, because even if they are using the brake pedal as a foot rest, they must slightly apply the brakes at times.

 

Almost certainly, they were driving an automatic, with the left foot on the brake - very nasty as if they brake in an emergency, they probably press hard with both feet, giving lots of power, just when you need to stop!

or they had recently done an emergency stop slammed the pedal down and the break light switch had jammed on quite a common fault with vehicles that use anything from the Ford parts bin it seems