Pacers coupled to Sprinters in regular workings?

[FelixM]

Hi,

 

While reading the latest Railtalk magazine I stumbled across a photo of a Sprinter coupled to a Pacer:

http://www.railtalk.org/magazine/issue107.pdf#page=116

 

I have seen pictures and at least one video of a Pacer coupled to a Sprinter DMU before, but I wonder if there is or has been any regular workings. They look very mismatching but are perfectly coupling compatible.

 

Any region, era, operator or specific Class of DMU is appreciated. I am looking forward to your comments.

 

Regards

Felix

[andania 213]

Hi,

 

While reading the latest Railtalk magazine I stumbled across a photo of a Sprinter coupled to a Pacer:

http://www.railtalk.org/magazine/issue107.pdf#page=116

 

I have seen pictures and at least one video of a Pacer coupled to a Sprinter DMU before, but I wonder if there is or has been any regular workings. They look very mismatching but are perfectly coupling compatible.

 

Any region, era, operator or specific Class of DMU is appreciated. I am looking forward to your comments.

 

Regards

Felix

 

When introduced (1985/1986) it was very common for 150/1 plus 142 's to run Manchester-North Wales services. However, I believe it It was causuing havoc with the original gearboxes on the 142's, so ceased as soon as they had sufficient 150's to double up with. Not sure how common it was since then, though recently (July),  a Northern Rail Blackpool - York train I travelled on had a 142 added to the front at Leeds, and was opened up to take passengers, even though it was probably a positioning move.

No doubt more learned folk can fill in the gap from 87 to'15!!

[Glorious NSE]

Not at all uncommon down this way - probably the most common combination* locally/recently is 143+153, as that gives a useful train length/capacity, a little under 143+143 but a little more than a 153+153, whilst freeing up a unit to do something else...
 

*By which I mean combination of sprinter and pacer - I would say 143+143 is more common than 153+143...

Edited August 25, 2015 by Glorious NSE

[eastwestdivide]

I've seen similar here in S Yorks too, but I couldn't say if there are any regular booked workings. I get the impression that on Sundays you sometimes get coupled units of different classes, one locked out, possibly to rotate units around for maintenance.

Mind you, I have also heard people mention Northern's "random unit generator".

[Bomag]

I've seen similar here in S Yorks too, but I couldn't say if there are any regular booked workings. I get the impression that on Sundays you sometimes get coupled units of different classes, one locked out, possibly to rotate units around for maintenance.

Mind you, I have also heard people mention Northern's "random unit generator".

 

For West Riding services there can be any variation of 155/153/150/142/144 combinations. On the Harrogate line its seems having two of the same type of unit on the same service is less than 50%. Combinations with 158s isn't as common (at least when I travel) and there are less combinations with 156s than there seemed to be. 

[Talltim]

Northern's Random Unit Generator™ seems to bring out all sorts of combinations, although being random, I couldn't point you to a specific constant use of any one type of unit coupled to another. They do seem to delight in mixing and matching, On my way home I often see a 2 pacer combo, but its never a 142+142 or 144+144 always a 142+144 (two or three car)

[SRman]

West Yorkshire PTE used to regularly run such workings in the late 1980's, at least in peak hours. I rode on a 155 + 144 combination out of Leeds, heading eastwards. I can't remember what the ultimate destination was for this train, as I was only getting off at Cross Gates or Garforth.

At one stage, I believe BR banned such workings because of the end-throws on the long sprinters adding extra wear to the pacers underpinnings, but the WYPTE never seemed to let that worry them.

[leopardml2341]

There were also problems with the self changing gears, train control wire 6 used to be a gear hold function which prevented continual up and down changing when units were coupled. This rather suggests problems were encountered, though these would largely go away when fully auto transmissions were fitted.

[LMS2968]

Quite common around here (Wigan) too. Saw this a couple of weeks ago.

[Reorte]

I used to see it quite often (15? maybe a few more) years ago on the Settle-Carlisle. Wouldn't fancy that distance myself on a Pacer, and indeed it was rather empty. I guess it was there to handle some commuter traffic on the way out of Leeds and they didn't really expect anyone to sit in the Pacer for the rest of the journey. I can't remember what Sprinter it was but probably a 156 (they were IIRC the usual ones at the time).

Edited August 25, 2015 by Reorte

[big jim]

I used to work sprinter/pacer combo's quite often when i worked at FNW, the key thing to remember when driving from the 90 mph max 158 is that you have a 75mph unit on the rear, would be a lively ride for the passengers on it at 90 (and it has happened!)

 

Similarly 168/165 combos are the same

[Glorious NSE]

Similarly 168/165 combos are the same

 

Back when Thames had a handful of 165/0 I experienced a 165/1 + 165/0 combo, the /0 was definitely not as composed as the normal /1, though nowhere near as scary a thought as doing 90 in a pacer...

[Mark Saunders]

^{When Arriva still ran Transpennine services the last train from York to Newcastle quite often had a 142 added to the 158 as a stock move for maintenance at Heaton, now it is a booked ECS move!}

 

^{Mark Saunders}

[LMS2968]

I used to work sprinter/pacer combo's quite often when i worked at FNW, the key thing to remember when driving from the 90 mph max 158 is that you have a 75mph unit on the rear, would be a lively ride for the passengers on it at 90 (and it has happened!)

To be honest, the Pacer's passengers were in for a lively ride, whatever the speed!

[TheSignalEngineer]

Quite common on Hope Valley, also 1416 Oxford Rd to Lime St today was Pacer/Sprinter combo.

[jamie92208]

They are certainly common on the Huddersfield Leeds line with 14X/15X combinations.  However there are even more eclectic mixes on the ECS workings to Leeds from and to Neville Hill where you can get 4 or 5 nits of all sorts coupled together presumably to save on paths.

 

Jamie

[APOLLO]

As LMS2968 says, common in the Wigan area. Wigan NW -Liverpool, Wigan Wallgate -Kirkby, Southport, Bolton & Manchester.

 

Here's one, big pix, not sure of location

 

http://en.academic.ru/pictures/enwiki/78/Northern_Rail_Class_142.jpg

 

Brit15

Edited August 25, 2015 by APOLLO

[Derekstuart]

When I saw this, I wondered how long it would be before the criticism of the Pacer's started.
 (POST #14).

 

People are always moaning about these units. They were designed as cheap to build, cheap to operate units. Don't blame the designers that the privatised world is sending them on 100+ mile main line journeys- they were never designed for that.

 

Certain routes, like the North York/ Esk Valley, were in real danger of closure in the 1980s and it was only these four wheeled boxes that managed to keep them open. So, they're a little rough ride- but better than having the line ripped up and turned into a cycle lane.

 

People moaning about them are akin to people who buy a Vauxhall Corsa to do regular long distance motorway commuting and then moan it's not comfortable enough.

 

Back to the OP- the Esk Valley often has a 14X stuck at the back of a 156 for the first or last journey.

[Stevelewis]

I used  to  see them  quite  often  in  the  Warrington  Area

[Reorte]

People are always moaning about these units. They were designed as cheap to build, cheap to operate units. Don't blame the designers that the privatised world is sending them on 100+ mile main line journeys- they were never designed for that.

I think my memories of them bouncing along the S&C were when it was still BR (Regional Railways) (although I'm a little hazy, and that would put it over the 15 years I guessed earlier). I thought about getting on one of them for the journey once, thinking that the large windows would make for good views, but in the end common sense prevailed. Fair enough on your points about what they were designed for, better than no railway, and they'd be fine for short journeys if there was enough legroom to sit straight.

Edited August 25, 2015 by Reorte

[PenrithBeacon]

When I saw this, I wondered how long it would be before the criticism of the Pacer's started.

 (POST #14).

 

People are always moaning about these .. and it was only these four wheeled boxes that managed to keep them open. So, they're a little rough ride ...

My personal experiance is they are better than the Manchester trams and TfL's 'S' stock.

[big jim]

I used  to  see them  quite  often  in  the  Warrington  Area

 

before arriva took over the franchise your local line, wrexham to bidston used to be 142's quite regularly, a pain to stop in leaf fall but so much better than a 153 at getting up hawarden bank

 

i used to quite enjoy driving them to be honest not too bad a driving position compared to some units

[Dean W]

I've seen a couple this week on the Esk Valley line

[darrel]

I drove quite a few from Leeds to Carlisle. The number of complaints from passengers saw them banned

[big jim]

I drove quite a few from Leeds to Carlisle. The number of complaints from passengers saw them banned

You still see them regularly in carlisle on the newcastle service, bet thats a ride and a half on one

 

I used to work them on crewe to bangor services as well but it didnt happen very often thabkfully, if i remember right they are banned beyond bangor

 

ive also had one vice a 158 on a Llandudno to manchester service which was a squeeze, ive got a pic somewhere of it in Llandudno station, im sure it was a merseyrail livery one too