45 ton Ransomes Crane

[Bernard Lamb]

Do Bachmann not do their price rise in February?. if so will the price of the crane rise again as it's  not released until July/August, 2018/19.

 

At least 3 more price increases to come by then.  

Followed by a newly introduced import duty in March 2019. I am sure we can think of a few more reasons/excuses to up it a bit more.    

Bernard

[PanzerJohn]

I had around £150 as the most I would be prepared to pay, it's an amazing model but at over 200 quid it's a no go for me (sad face).

[Arthur]

Glossing over the hoohaa on prices, at the end of the day, if you want a model of this crane, what is plan b?

 

Mike.

Plan b

 

 

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[Enterprisingwestern]

Plan b

 

EE01B36B-5107-445E-B0F2-F6BC18F0EFE1.jpeg

 

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Does he scratcbuild cranes with that implement?

 

Mike.

[Arthur]

I was thinking rather more a raid on a secure cash facility

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Fat Controller]

I was thinking rather more a raid on a secure cash facility

 

 

 

 

 

90AEB43E-A87D-4F9D-9023-B0A7B2BC96BB.jpeg

 

 

 

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You never mastered the palette knife technique, then?

[adb968008]

I was thinking rather more a raid on a secure cash facility

90AEB43E-A87D-4F9D-9023-B0A7B2BC96BB.jpeg

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I see someone started saving for the new crane and western Pullman last night...

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42643176

[The Stationmaster]

There are other ways of making money

 

https://publishistory.wordpress.com/2013/08/05/johannes-gutenberg-and-the-printing-press/

Edited January 11, 2018 by The Stationmaster

[Jol Wilkinson]

I was thinking rather more a raid on a secure cash facility

 

 

 

 

 

90AEB43E-A87D-4F9D-9023-B0A7B2BC96BB.jpeg

 

 

 

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There has been a recent spate of attacks on ATM's in East Anglia, could this be linked?

 

As someone for whom there is virtually no RTR products available for my chosen prototype/era I have found this tread very interesting.

 

Firstly Hatton's estimates for this item seem exceedingly variable and makes one wonder about their marketing policy. Better surely would have been not to guess a price what is clearly a complex model with no prior comparison for pricing. That their estimate was not much different  the LNWR Coal Tank (the only RTR loco in which I have ever taken more than a passing interest) seems to show a considerable lack of thought.

 

I suspect that many of those who are upset by the pricing would not have had this model high on their wishlist but the original estimate made it looks so affordable they just wouldn't want to miss out. That is how much of the RTR market seems to work, with the manufacturers relying on the attractiveness of different/unusual prototypes to attract sales.

Edited January 11, 2018 by Jol Wilkinson

[JSpencer]

Apparently 5 people robbed the Ritz hotel in Paris last night, I wonder if its in connection to buy the Bachmann crane?

[Godfrey Glyn]

Apparently 5 people robbed the Ritz hotel in Paris last night, I wonder if its in connection to buy the Bachmann crane?

 

According to some they would have to start planning another raid before they could afford one! 

[Mallard60022]

I have negotiated a fair BOGOF price for my two that I've pre ordered. I have to have two to represent the handling of the landslip on Honiton Incline in 1962 (think it was '62 without checking my extensive files). Organising the Exmouth Junction and Salisbury support coaches/wagons is going to be a challenge though.

Phil

[Clive Mortimore]

Plan b

 

EE01B36B-5107-445E-B0F2-F6BC18F0EFE1.jpeg

 

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Looks like I have been caught modelling with my favorite weapon tool......

 

Of course the result is a bit of rough engineering made easy.

[Tim Dubya]

Bargain

[Dunsignalling]

Good grief Clive, that looks damn fine old chap. I haven't got the Crane book but I do have his book (think it is his) about his time at Eastleigh I think it was. 

The Exmouth Junction Crane is, I believe, at the Watercress. There is one at the GC at Loughborough but I can't remember if it is the same Diagram without searching.

Thanks mate.

Phil

AIUI the Exmouth Junction crane, which is what I was hoping for, varies substantially from any of the Bachmann ones. The crane itself is OK but I gather the relieving bogies (and possibly the match truck) are of a pattern unique to the 72A one.

 

I took a couple of photos of it on the Mid-Hants in 2007 during the 40th anniversary gala for the end of Southern steam (Ouch, it really was that long ago) when it was running up and down behind a BRCW Type 3. Ten years on, I'll be looking to do a more comprehensive job on it.

 

I think (!) I've decided to pass this time and take my chances as it's not vital to my plans.

 

John

[Mallard60022]

AIUI the Exmouth Junction crane, which is what I was hoping for, varies substantially from any of the Bachmann ones. The crane itself is OK but I gather the relieving bogies (and possibly the match truck) are of a pattern unique to the 72A one.

 

I took a couple of photos of it on the Mid-Hants in 2007 during the 40th anniversary gala for the end of Southern steam (Ouch, it really was that long ago) when it was running up and down behind a BRCW Type 3. Ten years on, I'll be looking to do a more comprehensive job on it.

 

I think (!) I've decided to pass this time and take my chances as it's not vital to my plans.

 

John

That blows my BOGOF totally out of the siding then. Arse! Maybe I'll pay Clive to make me a decent version of the 72A one? Let's face it, if he can build that example of his from a bit of tatty old card and just using a book for refernce, then a couple of grand would be worth it.

I suppose I could still get two and the other one would be from somewhere other than Salisbury and hopefully more like the Barkmoan example. Clive could then just do the bits John mentions and if we get them 3D printed then we could sell them to interested punters to offset the large expense. Someone else might be able to use the spare bits of Barkmoan off one of the examples?

I shall have to have a chat with Clive.

Phil

[Bulleidboy100]

That was obviously an American piggy bank. Not a good exchange rate.

[Ouroborus]

My records indicate I allowed £100 for this in my spend profile back in 2015. Since then pay in China has been raise, the £st has gone down at least 20% etc etc.

 

 

Pedantic mode ON, but I felt the need to correct this

 

11/1/2015 £ : $ 1.51

11/1/2018 £ : $ 1.35 = 10%

 

Whilst devaluation certainly plays a part for the hike, many of the other factors are matters we simply do not know, whether they are commercially sensitive details such as wages or big B's business strategy. Maybe they've decided toy trains are no longer to be seen as toys??

[Pre Grouping fan]

The video linked earlier, the steves from Bachmann say they couldn't compromise on any of the rigging, gearing and other details A) Everything is visible so compromising it would ruin the look of the model B) Oy tooling one version would restrict sales to one era/region.

 

So that says to me it was never going to be a toy like product similar to hornbys crane. Its in a different ballpark entirely up there with he premium products in the scale

[Dunsignalling]

Pedantic mode ON, but I felt the need to correct this

 

11/1/2015 £ : $ 1.51

11/1/2018 £ : $ 1.35 = 10%

 

Whilst devaluation certainly plays a part for the hike, many of the other factors are matters we simply do not know, whether they are commercially sensitive details such as wages or big B's business strategy. Maybe they've decided toy trains are no longer to be seen as toys??

I don't think those who have run Bachmann ever regarded themselves as toymakers from the moment they took up the mantle of Airfix and Mainline who had, in the late 1970s, instigated the step-change in the authenticity of UK-outline r-t-r.

 

Bachmann took that aspect of the business seriously in a way that Hornby really didn't catch on to until they off-shored production.  

 

John

[lochlongside]

Pedantic mode ON, but I felt the need to correct this

 

11/1/2015 £ : $ 1.51

11/1/2018 £ : $ 1.35 = 10%

 

Whilst devaluation certainly plays a part for the hike, many of the other factors are matters we simply do not know, whether they are commercially sensitive details such as wages or big B's business strategy. Maybe they've decided toy trains are no longer to be seen as toys??

 

Checked my records - I stand corrected    - you are absolutely right - must stop absorbing/trotting out Ch4/BBCTV/Remainers gloom!!

Swiftly moving onto another tack (like all the current breed of politicos do when caught out !!) I do vaguely remember it seemed only a couple of years ago now that Bachmann did re-evaluate their approach to costs and the impression I still have was that Kader (?)  had suddenly realised they were not actually covering their costs - perhaps someone with a better memory can remember their statement - a paraphrase of which AFAICR was to expect that prices are(were) going to rise significantly.

 

So 10% here 10% there, it all mounts up and in fact Chinese labor costs alone have increased by significantly more than 10% in the last 6 years. Indeed according to Forbes/CNBC they have increased 64% over the last 6-7 years and now equal/exceed some of the minor eastern European EU countries rates (which rather reinforces Dapol's decision to start on-shoring some aspects of production). Given the handcrafting implicit in this crane I shan't be waiting for a second run - my recommendation for what it is worth is if you think you want one get it now (I am) - if it goes up at the same rate as the Blue Pullman most of us will need a mortgage by the time it comes round again.

[The Stationmaster]

Checked my records - I stand corrected    - you are absolutely right - must stop absorbing/trotting out Ch4/BBCTV/Remainers gloom!!

Swiftly moving onto another tack (like all the current breed of politicos do when caught out !!) I do vaguely remember it seemed only a couple of years ago now that Bachmann did re-evaluate their approach to costs and the impression I still have was that Kader (?)  had suddenly realised they were not actually covering their costs - perhaps someone with a better memory can remember their statement - a paraphrase of which AFAICR was to expect that prices are(were) going to rise significantly.

 

So 10% here 10% there, it all mounts up and in fact Chinese labor costs alone have increased by significantly more than 10% in the last 6 years. Indeed according to Forbes/CNBC they have increased 64% over the last 6-7 years and now equal/exceed some of the minor eastern European EU countries rates (which rather reinforces Dapol's decision to start on-shoring some aspects of production). Given the handcrafting implicit in this crane I shan't be waiting for a second run - my recommendation for what it is worth is if you think you want one get it now (I am) - if it goes up at the same rate as the Blue Pullman most of us will need a mortgage by the time it comes round again.

 

You are right regarding the situation between Bachmann Europe and Kader - what it boiled down to was that Bachmann's UK pricing was being subsidised by losses at Kader.  So no doubt the internal price was adjusted to help reduce Kader's losses which obviously resulted in UK retail prices rising.  And many people in the business at the time in any case held the view that Bachmann was largely underpriced (at RRP) anyway and that impression was probably not helped by some extremely deep discounting where at lest one retailer was selling at a very small margin above cost price (in fact other retailers could buy in at that retailer's prices and still making a decent profit even when slightly discounting Bachmann;s RRP.

[craneman]

AIUI the Exmouth Junction crane, which is what I was hoping for, varies substantially from any of the Bachmann ones. The crane itself is OK but I gather the relieving bogies (and possibly the match truck) are of a pattern unique to the 72A one.

 

<snip>

 

I wonder how you define "substantially" and what tolerance of accuracy you are prepared to accept.

 

DS1580 is visually very similar to DS1560 and DS1561 to the extent that very, very few people would spot the differences.

 

The principal (and most noticeable) differences are these (working from memory, so I may miss some trivia):-

 

1) DS1580 has outside steam chests with valves operated by rocking levers, the DS1560 and DS1561 have the steam chests inside the crab. In this respect, DS1580 matches the two cranes supplied to the LNER by the MoS and therefore the Bachmann model will be available in a form with the correct cylinders, albeit not in a Southern form.

 

2) DS1580 (and the seven MoS cranes which preceded it) has hydraulic loading gear on the RBs instead of the mechanical arrangement on the first 8 cranes. This means that the upperworks of the RBs on the first 8 cranes differs somewhat from that on the last 8, and the differences are fairly conspicuous. In addition, DS1580's RBs were unique since the axleboxes used on both the RBs and jib runner differ from all other cranes. DS1580's RBs uniquely have reliefs in the solebars directly above the axleboxes, no other R&R 45-ton crane had these.

 

3) The first 8 cranes (i.e., the first two for the SR, the four GW, and the two LNER cranes) had Cochran Hopwood squat boilers fitted with GWR boiler fittings. The subsequent 8 cranes ( seven for the MoS, and DS1580 for the SR) had essentially the same boiler but with standard industrial fittings. The one significant result of this from the modelling perspective is that the safety valves are on the front right quadrant of the boiler on the first 8 cranes, and the back left quadrant on the last 8 cranes, and as a result the rear tailweight castings which form the back of the superstructure are quite different, with the last cranes having a large and conspicuous cut-out for the safety valves, a visual feature which is lacking completely on the earlier cranes. None of the Bachmann models (at least none announced sofar) have this tailweight and I suspect that it is very unlikely that it will be produced.

 

4) DS1580 has Bulleid-Firth-Brown wheels on the crane and RBs (but not the jib runner).

 

5) There are also detail differences between the jib runners.

 

6) All the cranes seemed to have the Stones Turbogenerators mounted in different places and they were moved around periodically too. It is likely that all were fitted after the cranes left R&R, which may explain the lack of standardisation. At this time, I have seen any evidence of where, or even if, the turbogenerator is to be fitted on the model.

 

There are other differences, mostly very minor (for example DS1580 was the only crane ot be fitted with a "RAPIER" plaque at the jib head) and of no consequence in the smaller scales.

 

So to summarise, the differences between DS1580 and the ealier SR pair are:

 

 

- Cylinders

- Relieving bogies

- Axleboxes

- Tailweight casting

- Wheels

- Jib runner

- Tubogenerator location

 

Despite this, the cranes are visually very similar and only someone with a considerable level of expertise would be able to tell the difference between one and another. Could you pass DS1560 or '61 off as DS1580? I bet you could if you wanted to! Who's to say that for a particular job DS1580 wasn't away for overhaul, statutory test, or repair, and one of the others was standing in for it?

Edited January 12, 2018 by craneman

[letterspider]

Plan b

 

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I am confused by this picture. Is the author alluding to the need for an armed robbery to cope with Bachmann's price hikes - or is he/she suggesting that this is a case of Kidnap and Ransome?

[rubber duck]

Right, I'm gonna commission you to supply and build an excellent wild boar models crane kit (sold out i know, bear with me) £160.00,  say your going to charge me £10 per hour labour, very reasonable, eight hours build time, maybe more, £80, paint it and add transfers, materials inc glue paint etc, maybe £30 get it to run as well as the Bachmann model, so your gonna quote me £270. Can I get back to you.......