Hornby Announce Peckett W4 0-4-0ST

[bigherb]

People always say the want loco in primer for repainting but even supplying one without numbers means it will sit on model shop shelves for years.

 

It appears not to be the case.

[Edge]

With the success of the peckett, I don't find it hard to believe that there will be other liveries coming - possibly as early as this year

[Phil Parker]

It appears not to be the case.

 

No, what we have is a very small number of people on a forum who would like a blank model but aren't willing to break out the paint stripper. If you really want to do a repaint then that's all that needs to happen. It's the easiest part of the job.

 

On the other hand, unnumbered models HAVE sat on the shelves for long periods.

[Phil Parker]

With the success of the peckett, I don't find it hard to believe that there will be other liveries coming - possibly as early as this year

 

Hornby were very surprised by the popularity of this model - that much they told me at the Toy Fair last week. The problem they have is that production slots have to be booked a long way in advance so unless something else gets dropped or delayed, the chances are all the slots are already allocated so a new run in a new livery is almost impossible.

 

It might not be desirable either. Offer too many colours at once and people will get choosy. Put out a couple a year and I bet the collectors market will buy both. You can keep doing this for many years into the future with nothing being discounted or sitting in the warehouse.

 

Like the Sentinel, this is a cash cow that can produce the milk of money for a long while. I'd be thinking along the lines of adding a new model to the line-up at the next announcements that could do the same job. Then offer a new Peckett/Sentinel chain drive/Sentinel rods/New loco every quarter in a new livery every year. Do a Collectors Club exclusive too and you'll sign up loads of people to that too.

 

Sounds cynical, but cash flow matters.

[Edge]

Hornby were very surprised by the popularity of this model - that much they told me at the Toy Fair last week. The problem they have is that production slots have to be booked a long way in advance so unless something else gets dropped or delayed, the chances are all the slots are already allocated so a new run in a new livery is almost impossible.

 

It might not be desirable either. Offer too many colours at once and people will get choosy. Put out a couple a year and I bet the collectors market will buy both. You can keep doing this for many years into the future with nothing being discounted or sitting in the warehouse.

 

Like the Sentinel, this is a cash cow that can produce the milk of money for a long while. I'd be thinking along the lines of adding a new model to the line-up at the next announcements that could do the same job. Then offer a new Peckett/Sentinel chain drive/Sentinel rods/New loco every quarter in a new livery every year. Do a Collectors Club exclusive too and you'll sign up loads of people to that too.

 

Sounds cynical, but cash flow matters.

 

I quite agree, but manufacturers always have the option of buying up a  few 'fast track' production slots with the factories - they are always available. Problem is that money talks, and they need to be sure of sales before they go forward. That being said, the peckett has sold like hot cakes literally everywhere and the black one is sold out to pre-orders in an increasing number of places

[Izzy]

My view is probably contrary to most in that I believe the main success of the Pecket is down to the nice ornate liveries that they have been produced in. Not that it isn't a nice loco anyway, looks good and runs well, but that the level of demand has been fuelled by this aspect beyond what might have been expected had it arrived in simpler/plain ones sans lining. Not from those with a real interest in industrial locos obviously, but the more general buyer if I may put it like that. 

 

The demand from retailers for the plain black one is no doubt riding on the back of this and it will be interesting to see if it and simpler livery ones sell in quite the numbers expected, given that those expectations have now risen beyond what might have been deemed feasible previously.

 

As always, time will tell.

 

Izzy

[Porcy Mane]

Sounds cynical, but cash flow matters.

 Could not agree more, especially to a company that finds itself in a predicament such as Hornby but at which point does the Golden Goose become well overcooked?

I say this with you drawing a Peckett/Sentinal analogy and noticing that the MSC version of the Sentinel can now be had new for as little as £40.00.

 

P

[bigherb]

On the other hand, unnumbered models HAVE sat on the shelves for long periods.

How many of them where industrial locomotives?

[Dunsignalling]

I quite agree, but manufacturers always have the option of buying up a  few 'fast track' production slots with the factories - they are always available. Problem is that money talks, and they need to be sure of sales before they go forward. That being said, the peckett has sold like hot cakes literally everywhere and the black one is sold out to pre-orders in an increasing number of places

True, but if the demand for the first three Pecketts caught Hornby on the hop, one wonders if they have completed sufficient research on further liveries to act immediately anyway. 

 

John

[Phil Parker]

How many of them where industrial locomotives?

 

None of course, becasue this is the first time such a loco has been on sale. BUT, if "modellers" won't even add numbers to a painted loco (despite all the calls on forums for such a model to be provided) then would you really risk hundreds of thousands of your own money that industrial railway enthusiasts will be desperate to re-paint a whole loco?

 

Especially since you consider they aren't willing to spend half an hour with paint stripper to remove a livery in the first place. As I say, taking off the old paint is the easy part. I'm sure it's no bar to anyone willing and able to apply a new livery.

[Phil Parker]

 Could not agree more, especially to a company that finds itself in a predicament such as Hornby but at which point does the Golden Goose become well overcooked?

I say this with you drawing a Peckett/Sentinal analogy and noticing that the MSC version of the Sentinel can now be had new for as little as £40.00.

 

P

 

Good point. That WOULD make them ideal candidates for repaints though and I expect that even at that price, profit is being made.

 

It's true that Hornby must be careful not to overcook the Peckett goose. I've wondered how well Hattons Austerity is selling with 12 different liveries all appearing at the same time. I hope OK, but I think I'd have been tempted to roll them out slowly, but then it's not my money and they certainly know more about the business than me!

[MikeParkin65]

Hornby were very surprised by the popularity of this model - that much they told me at the Toy Fair last week. The problem they have is that production slots have to be booked a long way in advance so unless something else gets dropped or delayed, the chances are all the slots are already allocated so a new run in a new livery is almost impossible.

 

 

Sounds cynical, but cash flow matters.

 

In which case the answer might well be to stop banging out Kings, K1's and S15's. A second set of Pecketts now in lined Red, blue and green plus an unlined example would surely sell as well as the first batch. Whether that will be the case in a couple of years when the Peckett is 'old news' and who knows what other industrials have hit the market in the meantime, I am not so sure.

[Phil Parker]

In which case the answer might well be to stop banging out Kings, K1's and S15's. A second set of Pecketts now in lined Red, blue and green plus an unlined example would surely sell as well as the first batch. Whether that will be the case in a couple of years when the Peckett is 'old news' and who knows what other industrials have hit the market in the meantime, I am not so sure.

 

Not that easy. Only one factory has the Peckett moulds and if it's not the same one as the King, K1 or S15 then cancelling one doesn't free a slot for another. Moving the moulds isn't easy either as Chinese factories are notoriously protective of their assetss. Even if you get the things on a lorry, its likely to be a time-consuming long journey over terrible roads.  Peckett assembly probably takes a different length of time to a King so you'd need to mess around with a lot of schedules. Add to that a delay in shipping to the UK. This stuff is all planned in advance for a reason.

 

That's before you consider all the disapointed King, K1 and S15 buyers who get thier models cancelled.

 

Lucky for Hornby, the world isn't full of industrial loco announcements so they have the market clear for a while. Even if they didn't, I bet a nice livery would still sell.

[Roy Langridge]

Not that easy. Only one factory has the Peckett moulds and if it's not the same one as the King, K1 or S15 then cancelling one doesn't free a slot for another. Moving the moulds isn't easy either as Chinese factories are notoriously protective of their assetss. Even if you get the things on a lorry, its likely to be a time-consuming long journey over terrible roads. Peckett assembly probably takes a different length of time to a King so you'd need to mess around with a lot of schedules. Add to that a delay in shipping to the UK. This stuff is all planned in advance for a reason.

 

That's before you consider all the disapointed King, K1 and S15 buyers who get thier models cancelled.

 

Lucky for Hornby, the world isn't full of industrial loco announcements so they have the market clear for a while. Even if they didn't, I bet a nice livery would still sell.

The margins may be different as well. Hornby may be happy selling much less Kings etc. if the margin is such that they make more money.

 

Roy

[davknigh]

No, what we have is a very small number of people on a forum who would like a blank model but aren't willing to break out the paint stripper. If you really want to do a repaint then that's all that needs to happen. It's the easiest part of the job.

 

On the other hand, unnumbered models HAVE sat on the shelves for long periods.

I can sympathize with those not wishing to mess up a paint job just for the sake of changing numbers but I find it scarcely credible that people would be intimidated by the prospect of adding numbers to a blank surface. A number of companies produce the numbers and codes necessary for the job, it's not like you have to hand paint them. What ever would they do with more than one of the same engine class? Oh, wait, the manufacturers cater to that. Sigh...

 

Cheers,

 

David

[adb968008]

It was many months (6?) before release that Hornby published a picture of the peckett cab being spray painted in the engine shed blog.

 

Being small doesn't equal easy and quick to make.

 

It could take several months across several factories to source all the bits needed and bring them together at the same place and time.

 

If that is indeed the case, then any repeat of the former would make sense to assemble with the latter, is that then sensible ?

Hornby announced the rerun of Exeter, but it took several months and appeared pretty much same time as 34070/34051 & 34006. 34001 was also subject to hysteria, demand and high prices at the time, admittedly none of the Bulleids "swamped" the market, the market soaked them up at fair price, even if Exeter picked up an aws box between releases, fair to say Hornby made a good call there, especially as they were all reasonably uniform-in a Bulleid kind of way.

Edited January 30, 2017 by adb968008

[Porcy Mane]

On the other hand, unnumbered models HAVE sat on the shelves for long periods.

 

This has attempted to kick start my grey matter but I'm struggling to remember any examples of unnumbered locomotives being offered by the mainstream 4mm suppliers in the UK market? I guess it must be an age thing. One thing my advancing years still remembers though is  Tri-ang/Rovex/Hornby supplying Britannia with three sets of different cab side number waterslides along with matching foil self adhesive nameplates.

 

Although it's a different market the Americans almost always seem to include  a primer only version of any new diesel released to compliment the multitude of available liveries.

 

P

[Phil Parker]

This has attempted to kick start my grey matter but I'm struggling to remember any examples of unnumbered locomotives being offered by the mainstream 4mm suppliers in the UK market? I guess it must be an age thing. One thing my advancing years still remembers though is  Tri-ang/Rovex/Hornby supplying Britannia with three sets of different cab side number waterslides along with matching foil self adhesive nameplates.

 

Although it's a different market the Americans almost always seem to include  a primer only version of any new diesel released to compliment the multitude of available liveries.

 

P

 

Bachmann tried it with I think a Peak. Model was painted but un-numbered. Sold like cold cakes apparently. I understand they were still on shelves after 5 years.

[Roy Langridge]

This has attempted to kick start my grey matter but I'm struggling to remember any examples of unnumbered locomotives being offered by the mainstream 4mm suppliers in the UK market? I guess it must be an age thing. One thing my advancing years still remembers though is Tri-ang/Rovex/Hornby supplying Britannia with three sets of different cab side number waterslides along with matching foil self adhesive nameplates.

 

Although it's a different market the Americans almost always seem to include a primer only version of any new diesel released to compliment the multitude of available liveries.

 

P

Heljan did a number of diesels which were not numbered, if that makes sense.

 

Roy

[Porcy Mane]

Ah, vague recollections of Heljan doing some are stirring but can't remember the Bachmann Peak. I wonder if the choice of prototype and possibly the accuracy (in the case of the Heljan 47 and Bachmann Peak) had some influence of sales.

 

P

[PenrithBeacon]

Could not agree more, especially to a company that finds itself in a predicament such as Hornby but at which point does the Golden Goose become well overcooked?

I say this with you drawing a Peckett/Sentinal analogy and noticing that the MSC version of the Sentinel can now be had new for as little as £40.00.

 

P

True I bought one myself last week. But, there is a fly in the ointment. Ultrascale will only do finescale wheels if they have preorders for 20. My order of today makes a total of ten for P4.

 

Looks like my MSC model is going to be stored for some time.

 

 

[Hippo]

True I bought one myself last week. But, there is a fly in the ointment. Ultrascale will only do finescale wheels if they have preorders for 20. My order of today makes a total of ten for P4.

 

Looks like my MSC model is going to be stored for some time.

 

Off topic but where can you order the ulrascale sentinel wheels, do you just e-mail them ?

 

Thanks

Owen

[Tim Hall]

Ah, vague recollections of Heljan doing some are stirring but can't remember the Bachmann Peak. I wonder if the choice of prototype and possibly the accuracy (in the case of the Heljan 47 and Bachmann Peak) had some influence of sales.

 

P

But presumably the unnumbered ones were no more inaccurate than the numbered ones which seemed to sell ok at the same time?

[Ian J.]

IMO, I think the problem in the past with unnumbered or unpainted models not selling is down to how they were marketed. They were put out there as main stream releases. To make a success of such a product, it has to be squarely marketed at the modellers. That means avoiding thinking they will sell to the general public completely, and instead pitching them via forums such as this, and via the main modellers magazines. Also, think in terms of a small limited run, simply held back from the paint gun as part of a larger production run, rather than a dedicated run.

[davefromacrossthepond]

I have to say, it is kind of refreshing to see Hornby in a "bind" of having a locomotive that is perhaps "too" popular.  Let's hope this turns out to be a good thing for Hornby . . . and all of us.