brian777999 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) Yes certainly! I've only used two colours on these two, just rust & black. Using two smallish paint brushs I went over the whole loco with the rust working it into all the corners but not using to much. Then to finish I went over with the black just asif I was weathering with paints. After that I took some tissue paper and gently removed most of it off the coloured tank and cabs etc to give a dirty but cleaned finish Finished off with a quick spray all over of humbrol Matt varnish to lock it all in place! Did you do anything around the wheels ? I weather with an airbrush and I always worry about doing the wheels. Edited January 17, 2017 by brian777999 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted January 17, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2017 Did you do anything around the wheels ? I weather with an airbrush and I always worry about doing the wheels. I'm sure I've read somewhere that Iain Rice has spraypainted wheels with the chassis under power, and then cleaned the treads off afterwards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I'm sure I've read somewhere that Iain Rice has spraypainted wheels with the chassis under power, and then cleaned the treads off afterwards. That's the way I do it, with a slip of greaseproof paper behind the wheel, minding carefully the power pickups etc. Rust is pretty even on wheels, unless a loco stands for ages. A detail to add is a run of gloss varnish down from the crankpins where excess oil has dropped down the wheel face. A lot of plastic wheels are a bit translucent, so a coat of the base colour or an undercoat may be needed before the rust and grime is added. Powders are very good, you can use chalk and pastels powered up yourself to alter the various shades, thinners or alcohol will remove overpaint from the tyres, or you can paint the tyres with liquid masking, (from art shops), that peels away to leave a clean surface. PVA glue will also as as a mask on metal or hard plastic. Always try to be subtle, you can add more, but cannot remove over weathering. Most industrial locos were not candidates for Barry Scrap. There's no absolute need for an airbrush or spray, it can all be done with brushes up to final varnishing, and there at least spray the finish, as brushing it will disturb the powders, although I have seen hairspray used to bond the powder, then when dry it is varnished over with a sable brush with matt varnish. Any runs in the powders is minimal and looks realistic. The most durable of finishes over matt weathering, is to use Rustins gloss lacquer, thinned with cellulose thinners to about 70% thinners to the lacquer. It is applied at high atomisation, with a fine airbrush setting (higher pressure), and allowed to gently mist over the surfaces, will no chance to wet the surface, it dries instantly to a dusty finish, which is built up slowly. The working distance is greater than usual. The final touch is a spray of straight thinners allowing a bit of wetting which bonds the grainy surface into a hard durable matt satin finish, that is quite washable to remove fingermarks etc., if a couple of spray coats are done with pure thinners it goes satin, and even more it goes to gloss finish, but you do not want that with weathering. Although I mentioned Rustin's any good cellulose thinned lacquer will do, but it must be lacquer like Dope etc, not enamel, it has to dry instantly or the matt finish does not appear. Rustin's applied over any paint of any type in this gentle manner will not attack the paint etc, the thinners evaporate away to fast. Very good art quality matt acrylic varnish can also be used for the final finish, but it is not quite as durable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northmoor MPD Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Did you do anything around the wheels ? I weather with an airbrush and I always worry about doing the wheels. Yes I did all round the wheels, motion and chassis. Great bit about powder is you can just take it back off again with a cotton bud on the contact parts of the wheel before spraying the model with varnish. I just sit the model on a flat surface when spraying in varnish, that way the varnish doesn't go on the contact part of the wheels Hope this helps Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfsboy Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I'm sure I've read somewhere that Iain Rice has spraypainted wheels with the chassis under power, and then cleaned the treads off afterwards. I have done this on US brass locos BUT they dont have pickups usually but my preferred method is to remove to motor ,electrical gubbins and pickups etc on Hornby etc and spray the whole chassis and then run it over some track with a thin blue paper towel soaked in C thinners or Xylene or isopropyl to clean the rims .One tip is to not have too thin a paint mix .I have done quite a few US brass with rattlecans but use 2K car paint now .I cant get Scalecoat 1 for love nor money . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Midland Mole Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 What sort of power classification would a W4 have? 0F? 1F? Alex Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Budgie Posted January 17, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2017 What sort of power classification would a W4 have? 0F? 1F? Alex Or -1F, -2F perhaps? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted January 17, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) What sort of power classification would a W4 have? 0F? 1F? Alex Of course it would only get a power classification if it came into LMS or BR stock - whether the G&SWR's Peckett lasted long enough to be classified, I don't know, but in my Ian Allan ABC Combined Volume (Summer 1958 edition) we have: 0-4-0ST 0F Class P. & M. Introduced 1907. Peckett design for P. & M. Weight: 33 tons 10 cwt. Pressure: 150 lb. Cyls: (O) 15" x 21". Driving Wheels: 3' 7". T.E. 14,010 lb 1151/2 Total 2 I haven't found out which Peckett class these are. I think these are Peckett Class E, as done by Minerva in 7mm scale. A bigger engine than the W4. Powesland & Mason were contractors for shunting at Swansea docks, I gather. The GWR 1361 Class, a surviving Cardiff Rly Kitson 0-4-0ST, and several Swansea Harbour Trust 0-4-0STs, including Nos 1143/5 also Pecketts, described as "similar to 1151/2" were also put in 0F by BR, as were the Beattie well tanks, the Adams O2 (actually 0P) and ex-LNER classes Y9, Z4, Z5, and J88. Oddly, the surviving Wainwright Ps and NE J71s are "unclass" which is a designation otherwise reserved for the various ex-GWR narrow gauge engines on the VoR, W&L, etc. On the LMS, the L&Y Class 21 and Drummond/Mcintosh Caley pugs were 0F, along with some Kitson 0-4-0STs "prepared to Stanier's requirements" in 1932 and of course the Johnson and Deeley 0-4-0s - whether they were actually officially in "power class 0" in Midland days I'm not certain - seems unlikely to me. Further edit: How could I have missed the Terriers! Also L&SWR Class C14 - both 0P. Edited January 17, 2017 by Compound2632 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 That's the easiest question ever as BR had one. No 1 Hercules was unclassed. No WR dot or power rating either. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Midland Mole Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Thanks for the answers everyone. The ex-G&SWR one was the loco I had in mind and the photo of it in LMS ownership shows no classification on the cabside. Alex Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted January 17, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 17, 2017 That's the easiest question ever as BR had one. No 1 Hercules was unclassed. No WR dot or power rating either. Jason That had me confused for a moment - I wasn't aware any broad gauge engines survived to nationalisation! No. 1 isn't in my 1958 ABC - when was it withdrawn? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 It does help when a question comes up and you've got the relevant book next to you. Other details taken from the 1950 ABC. Weight: 23 tons o cwt. Pressure: 146lb Cyls: 14 1/2" x 22" Driving wheels: 3'2" TE: 13000lb Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 That had me confused for a moment - I wasn't aware any broad gauge engines survived to nationalisation! No. 1 isn't in my 1958 ABC - when was it withdrawn? Came from the Ystralyfera Tin Works in 1948 so wasn't GWR. Rebuilt with a GWR safety valve at Danygraig. Withdrawn 1/1/1954 Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted January 17, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2017 Came from the Ystralyfera Tin Works in 1948 so wasn't GWR. Rebuilt with a GWR safety valve at Danygraig. Withdrawn 1/1/1954 Jason Works No. 810 of 1900 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted January 17, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 17, 2017 Came from the Ystralyfera Tin Works in 1948 so wasn't GWR. Rebuilt with a GWR safety valve at Danygraig. Withdrawn 1/1/1954 Jason I expect we'll see it in due course even though presumably its sphere of operation was as limited as H&P D? Did it make it to BR livery - plain black with bicycling lions and "1" in Gill Sans on the cap side sheets? BTW I don't think we've yet been shown a "conversion" to H&P C? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buhar Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 It seems 16043, the G&SW Peckett, was Unclassified for power by the LMS. Looking at other small locos, I think Unclassified became 0F under BR. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 There was actually a section below 0P and 0F. Not many locomotives in there, mainly very small tank locomotives such as Sentinels and narrow gauge. Plus some large locomotive such as the LNER Garrett and Bulleid Leader probably because they didn't fit in the other sections. Those in unclassed according to the 1950 and 1955 ABCs. Vale Of Rheidol 2-6-2T Welshpool & Llanfair 0-6-0T LNER Y1 0-4-0T LNER Y3 0-4-0T LNER Y10 0-4-0T 1 Hercules 0-4-0ST Not the other Pecketts though. Maybe it had problems or was only used for specific duties? Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spitfire2865 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Play with the damn thing twice and I already break the whistle off. Oh well, .5mm wire makes a decent quick replacememt. Can barely tell its not textured. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted January 18, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 18, 2017 (edited) There was actually a section below 0P and 0F. Not many locomotives in there, mainly very small tank locomotives such as Sentinels and narrow gauge. Plus some large locomotive such as the LNER Garrett and Bulleid Leader probably because they didn't fit in the other sections. Those in unclassed according to the 1950 and 1955 ABCs. Vale Of Rheidol 2-6-2T Welshpool & Llanfair 0-6-0T LNER Y1 0-4-0T LNER Y3 0-4-0T LNER Y10 0-4-0T 1 Hercules 0-4-0ST Not the other Pecketts though. Maybe it had problems or was only used for specific duties? Jason The other Pecketts were of the E Class, much larger than the W4 modelled by Hornby. See Posts 2041 and 2045 for the comparative dimensions. John Edited January 18, 2017 by Dunsignalling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted January 18, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 18, 2017 There was actually a section below 0P and 0F. Not many locomotives in there, mainly very small tank locomotives such as Sentinels and narrow gauge. Plus some large locomotive such as the LNER Garrett and Bulleid Leader probably because they didn't fit in the other sections. Those in unclassed according to the 1950 and 1955 ABCs. Vale Of Rheidol 2-6-2T Welshpool & Llanfair 0-6-0T LNER Y1 0-4-0T LNER Y3 0-4-0T LNER Y10 0-4-0T 1 Hercules 0-4-0ST Not the other Pecketts though. Maybe it had problems or was only used for specific duties? Jason Sorry this is a bit off-Peckett but I'm intrigued that the J71s were "unclass" in 1958 but not in 1950 or 1955. The similar but younger, smaller-wheeled and slightly larger-cylindered J72s were 2F. From a quick skim of relevant threads, I gather power classification was at least partially subjective and open to pragmatic considerations, as in the case of the Crabs being 5F on weekdays and 6P at weekends, because that was the work they were actually doing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daltonparva Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Play with the damn thing twice and I already break the whistle off. Oh well, .5mm wire makes a decent quick replacememt. Can barely tell its not textured. One of my Pecketts came with a spare whistle stuck on the inside of the plastic sleeve.Offers starting in the £000's please! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley Melrose Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 On page 90 of Volume 2 of Bob Pixton's 3 books on the railways between Liverpool and Manchester there is a photo of a MSC Peckett (No. 2 "Irlam") hauling an ex-Midland Railway 6 wheel coach. If anyone is interested, I'll scan it and post a copy. Stan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 On the LMS power classifications were reserved for revenue earning locomotives and started at 1 F or P. The 3F Jinty was an anomaly because it was at the same time a shunter and a revenue earning loco. On BR there were revenue earning locos from the SR which had the power of many dock shunters which created a further anomaly. The solution was to start the classification system at 0 and include all but a few really exceptional engines which were considered to be unclassified. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomp Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 One of my Pecketts came with a spare whistle stuck on the inside of the plastic sleeve. Offers starting in the £000's please! £001 any good? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Budgie Posted January 18, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 18, 2017 £001 any good? I'd have thought you'd have offered £0.00 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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