Hornby Announce Peckett W4 0-4-0ST

[brian777999]

See my previous posts on Huntley & Palmers wagons way back in this thread... Despite what it says on the box, the Dapol wagon is not "authentic" - it does not resemble any real Huntley & Palmers wagon (or any real wagon for that matter) - neither the Gloucester 6-plank 10T wagon No. 21 nor the real Huntley & Palmers No. 3 which was a 4-plank dumb-buffered wagon - with the lettering arranged differently too.

 

My real point here is as modellers we are very alert to the slightest inaccuracy in locomotives but seem to have a blind spot when it comes to goods wagons: here we've a beautiful representation of one of Huntley & Palmers' Pecketts but folk seem happy to contemplate putting it alongside these 1980s toys. But chacun a son gout. Also, I suppose I'm painting myself into a corner - but I have plans for some authentic H&P wagons.

 

Will you be scratch building them ?

[Compound2632]

Will you be scratch building them ?

 

In 4mm, the Gloucester wagon is Slater's kit 4035W, if I can track one down. For earlier 4-plank wagons, I'm going to try kit-bashes based on the Cambrian Wheeler & Gregory kit C74 - I've already been working on techniques for building dumb-buffered wagons; I've not yet identified a suitable underframe for the iron/steel framed wagons. Not sure if the POWsides transfers will fit these smaller wagons, with the firm's name horizontal rather than diagonal; one can but do the experiment. To recap, prototype info is given in wagonman's posts #1633 #1640 & #1641 above (p. 66) and this photo (which is certainly much earlier than the 1920 date given - 1890s seems plausible).

[dibber25]

 

That, alas, is the blinkered attitude which almost drove Hornby to the wall.

 

Most magazines and not just railway modelling ones make their money from advertising rather than sales.

 

I don't know what the current advertising rates are but I do know that as the list price of the Peckett is/was a penny shy of £80,[and worth every penny spent says I], although quite clearly the wholesale cost is rather less. Stick with the £80 though. Hornby Magazine reviewed the Peckett in the January issue, which came out in December just ahead of the retail release and removed any last lingering doubt that skint or not I wanted to pick one up - and did.

 

That review featured both Dodo and MSC 11; two locos = £160 retail cost. The review filled four pages and then there were another four pages covering the history, making eight in all. Is there any way that you can get a whole eight full pages of advertising space for £160? Add to which of course there's the quality of the advertising. In the same issue, for example, Bachmann had a full page advert for the Wickham trolley. The advert was a perfectly good one which did what it was supposed to; it featured good quality photies of the product and alerted potential customers to the two different liveries, and no doubt if there were other variations it would have done that too, but compare and contrast that single page with the 4-8 pages of in-depth coverage of the Peckett. I don't know the source of the two Pecketts reviewed but for £160 it was an absolute bargain in terms of product exposure.

 

 

You're absolutely right. A favourable review in an independent publication is product endorsement that's worth a great deal. More, in fact, than a full page ad which costs several hundreds of pounds but, Hornby hit the magazines with a double whammy because they also stopped all their paid advertising. This, in fact, was potentially far more damaging to magazines than the cost of a few review samples. There are many reasons why we would not buy review models and then re-sell them secondhand. Our current system is to review models which are bought by staff - usually that's me. So, if it doesn't interest one of us, it's unlikely to get reviewed. I'll be reviewing the Peckett in due course, but because it arrived just before the Christmas holiday I doubt that it would have reached us any earlier if it had come direct from Hornby. They clearly made some special arrangement with their own magazine, which of course they are entitled to do. (CJL)

[bertiedog]

Whether the last plank on the old Airfix Huntley and Palmer wagon matches or corresponds to reality is really quite an unimportant issue to most users, it is a wagon, it has the right sort of lettering, and there's no choice in RTR anyway, and the price of these older wagons is now guaranteed to rocket on Ebay!, in percentage terms over the original price many more than the Locomotives!!

Lets hope Dapol can come up with something to suit, or anybody else, bar the wait for the FE models.

It is nice when the effort is made to make custom wagons yourself, but many can't, and have to rely on the RTR makers efforts.

 

Stephen

[Legend]

That, alas, is the blinkered attitude which almost drove Hornby to the wall.

 

Most magazines and not just railway modelling ones make their money from advertising rather than sales.

 

I don't know what the current advertising rates are but I do know that as the list price of the Peckett is/was a penny shy of £80,[and worth every penny spent says I], although quite clearly the wholesale cost is rather less. Stick with the £80 though. Hornby Magazine reviewed the Peckett in the January issue, which came out in December just ahead of the retail release and removed any last lingering doubt that skint or not I wanted to pick one up - and did.

 

That review featured both Dodo and MSC 11; two locos = £160 retail cost. The review filled four pages and then there were another four pages covering the history, making eight in all. Is there any way that you can get a whole eight full pages of advertising space for £160? Add to which of course there's the quality of the advertising. In the same issue, for example, Bachmann had a full page advert for the Wickham trolley. The advert was a perfectly good one which did what it was supposed to; it featured good quality photies of the product and alerted potential customers to the two different liveries, and no doubt if there were other variations it would have done that too, but compare and contrast that single page with the 4-8 pages of in-depth coverage of the Peckett. I don't know the source of the two Pecketts reviewed but for £160 it was an absolute bargain in terms of product exposure.

I kind of agree if you need the exposure. My central point was that they didn't need it. They are all sold out at Hornby anyway and now it seems most retailers.

 

Another interesting development is the tie up with Hornby Magazine . Hornby Mag is referred to in the latest catalogue. The Peckett was reviewed by them in December as you say, ahead of anyone else. Interestingly the latest copy(February) has a review of The Merchant Navy , again ahead of anyone else. Could it be that Hornby are now channeling reviews through their chosen mag. I don't think it's Hornbys review sample policy that drove them close to wall. Maybe not so blinkered after all

Edited January 14, 2017 by Legend

[bertiedog]

All sales depend on advertising and review, in all trades, you have to put out your stall, and supply goods, and it has always surprised me that so little advertising is done for model railways to the general public, not just the modellers that already are a captured market.

Recent programs on Steam Railways, Train travel, and models, must help, but it is not enough to expand the hobby outside the existing followers.

 

The lost market in the UK is the Christmas train set, for 00 it has shrunk away, there are other toy makers who do Junior train sets, and the Thomas the tank engine stories show that the programs still drive demand for the product.

 

There seems a bigger gulf between toys and models in the UK than say the States, where Xmas sets are still huge business, and advertised outside the model press.

 

Trouble is the cost, a promotion or advert can remove the current profit on an item, and in models these days supply is limited by numbers, and what's the point of mass advertising if you cannot meet the demand.

 

It needs more generalised advertising of the hobby, not particular models, with a national approach, and shops tie ups in with the "brand".

How this is done is open ended, no single answer, but the hobby may fade more if something is not done.

[Caledonian]

I kind of agree if you need the exposure. My central point was that they didn't need it. They are all sold out at Hornby anyway and now it seems most retailers.

 

 

 

Now they are, but back in November when that review was written the boat carrying the Pecketts hadn't even docked.

[Islesy]

Did someone mention a Huntley & Palmer 6 plank wagon?

[Brian Hawkins]

Did someone mention a Huntley & Palmer 6 plank wagon?IMG_7917.JPG

Although I'm not a great fan of Hornby wagons prefering Bachmann instead I have a few of these pre ordered from my local model shop, looking forward to their eventual release.

[bertiedog]

The Hornby one is still months away, unless you know otherwise, let's hope the loco's return to be sold with it.........

[Compound2632]

Whether the last plank on the old Airfix Huntley and Palmer wagon matches or corresponds to reality is really quite an unimportant issue to most users, it is a wagon, it has the right sort of lettering, and there's no choice in RTR anyway,

 

By which argument, this is good enough! (RRP £9.99 in 1986.) Sorry, I appreciate I'm in danger of making myself obnoxious...

 

But, there is RTR choice: thinking only of wood-bodied mineral wagons, the choice ranges across a spectrum from the Bachmann RCH 1923 7-plank wagon, which is a good representation of a specific prototype (setting aside the issue of inappropriate PO liveries), to the 10ft wheelbase, steel framed wagons of Mainline or Airfix origin, which are not. Hornby's catalogue includes some rather nice (so long as you don't look at the brake gear) early 20th century 6, 4 and 3-plank wagons of distinctly Gloucester-ish aspect, many with authentic liveries, and of course there's Oxford Rail's Scottish 4-plank mineral wagon, which is far to good to put behind a Hornby J83! The coke wagon of Triang origin is no longer in the catalogue - it last appeared as recently as 2011 in GCR guise - perhaps the last appearance of the old Triang standard underframe? - things have moved on. Folk are much more particular about their carriages these days, so why not wagons?

[Compound2632]

Did someone mention a Huntley & Palmer 6 plank wagon?IMG_7917.JPG

 

Yes, my post #1699 - if the number was in the range 21 - 25 and the solebars were the body colour (and perhaps altogether a tad nearer purple-brown) we'd be in wagon heaven (barring the brake gear and pre-NEM couplings). 

[Andy Y]

They clearly made some special arrangement with their own magazine, which of course they are entitled to do. (CJL)

 

Many people over the years have assumed Hornby Hobbies 'owned' Hornby Magazine and it has been corrected many times on this site to clarify that Hornby Hobbies license the use of the name, formerly to Ian Allan and latterly to Key Publishing, an arrangement recently extended. Obviously Hornby Magazine has had access to review samples ahead of other magazines but that is understandable given the tie-in but I think it's still relevant to confirm the correct ownership of the title, distinct from the Hornby Collectors' Club Magazine.

[Ian Hargrave]

Although I'm not a great fan of Hornby wagons prefering Bachmann instead I have a few of these pre ordered from my local model shop, looking forward to their eventual release.

Who could possibly resist ?

 

"Hornby Hobbies make'em

Like wagons ought to be "

[Butler Henderson]

I knew it was inauthentic. I'm pretty sure the one I have (which I will get back from Reading Museum on Monday) was in a Mainline box, but as I bought it secondhand, maybe the previous owner swapped the boxes. Or maybe Mainline carried on selling them after they bought out Airfix.

The model railway stock that was left in the Charlton warehouse after Airfix went bust was sold to David Boyle and so started Dapol. The H&P van was subsequently listed as their B161. All points to the Mainline box being a swap.

Edited January 14, 2017 by Butler Henderson

[Mark Saunders]

The coke wagon of Triang origin is no longer in the catalogue - it last appeared as recently as 2011 in GCR guise - perhaps the last appearance of the old Triang standard underframe? - things have moved on. Folk are much more particular about their carriages these days, so why not wagons?

The Hornby NER Coke wagon would make a good model produced to current standards along with the P4 coal hopper that some of the Coke were converted from!

 

Mark Saunders

[PaulRhB]

I thought I'd ask if there are any more in the pipeline officially

 

"Good morning

 

Thank you for your email and enquiry about the Huntley and Palmr Peckett loco.

 

Though the item was a success regards to our customers we unfortunatley are not looking to produce any more of this specific item in the near the future.

 

We thank you for your time regards to your email and also your feed back.

 

kind regards

 

Lindsy

Hornby Hobbies customer services team"

 

So there we go.

[Porcy Mane]

I thought I'd ask if there are any more in the pipeline officially

 

If in doubt, ask. There's something to be said for the direct approach.

 

Thank you for your email and enquiry about the Huntley and Palmr Peckett loco.

 

Though the item was a success regards to our customers we unfortunatley are not looking to produce any more of this specific item in the near the future.

 

That'll stoke up the eBay frenzy.

 

P

[toboldlygo]

If in doubt, ask. There's something to be said for the direct approach.

 

 

 

That'll stoke up the eBay frenzy.

 

P

In my best Elmer Fudd impression:

 

Be wery quiet, I'm hunting Peckett's

Edited January 16, 2017 by toboldlygo

[Northmoor MPD]

Just weathered my two pecketts, my first time using weathering powders...I don't think they look to bad!

[Butler Henderson]

I thought I'd ask if there are any more in the pipeline officially

 

"Good morning

 

Thank you for your email and enquiry about the Huntley and Palmr Peckett loco.

 

Though the item was a success regards to our customers we unfortunatley are not looking to produce any more of this specific item in the near the future.

Not that surprising given the way the production lines work with each model having a defined slot and then the tooling stored away hopefully to found again, meanwhile other models are being made / waiting their turn and any further production has to be slotted in when a slot is available; presumably that will be the Black ones. It may be that others could be made at that time, we have seen it before with various re runs of a model delayed one year and then when produced other variants produced ahead of Hornbys predicted quarterly releases simply because the tooling is operative and it makes sense to the whole lot in one run rather than  waste time dismantling the tooling only to have to refit it to the machinery a few months later.

[Captain Kernow]

Just weathered my two pecketts, my first time using weathering powders...I don't think they look to bad!

I've got to say, that if that's just using weathering powders alone, that's really brilliant work. Can you perhaps say a bit more about how you achieved that excellent finish, please?

[Northmoor MPD]

I've got to say, that if that's just using weathering powders alone, that's really brilliant work. Can you perhaps say a bit more about how you achieved that excellent finish, please?

Yes certainly!

I've only used two colours on these two, just rust & black.

Using two smallish paint brushs I went over the whole loco with the rust working it into all the corners but not using to much. Then to finish I went over with the black just asif I was weathering with paints.

After that I took some tissue paper and gently removed most of it off the coloured tank and cabs etc to give a dirty but cleaned finish

Finished off with a quick spray all over of humbrol Matt varnish to lock it all in place!

[gz3xzf]

I thought I'd ask if there are any more in the pipeline officially

I also thought I would ask with the following: -

 

As far as I can tell the current run of W4 Peckett tanks have sold out in the majority of stores (I cannot find any currently), are there plans for further production runs of the R3427-9 models?

Kindest regards,

Bryan V Hardwick

I had a reply six days later with the following which seems a bit more positive, but slightly more vague than the above: -

 

Dear Mr Hardwick,

 

Thank you for your email some seem to be planned for later in the year but this is not confirmed as yet ,please keep an eye on the website for announcements later this year.

 

Kind Regards,

Simon Watkins

 

I have been watching Ebay for any and they seem to be selling for around £100 to £140 plus postage. So it looks like I will have to wait until I can build one!!

Edited January 16, 2017 by gz3xzf

[Captain Kernow]

Yes certainly!

I've only used two colours on these two, just rust & black.

Using two smallish paint brushs I went over the whole loco with the rust working it into all the corners but not using to much. Then to finish I went over with the black just asif I was weathering with paints.

After that I took some tissue paper and gently removed most of it off the coloured tank and cabs etc to give a dirty but cleaned finish

Finished off with a quick spray all over of humbrol Matt varnish to lock it all in place!

Many thanks. Essentially a simple method, but stunning results!