Pint of Adnams Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Disregarding the spokes/wheelbosses controversy, R3431 (BR Black, EC) has appeared on the Hornby website "Coming Soon" ( http://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/shop/coming-soon.html ) page. Mid-November is soon? Its almost Christmas!!! gibber A quick glance at the image attached to that webpage shows the wheelfaces absolutely flat from rim to boss - if that genuinely is the case then Hornby have blown away one of the most obvious features of these locomotives across ALL of the variations - BIG WHOOPSIE Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted October 16, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 16, 2016 A quick glance at the image attached to that webpage shows the wheelfaces absolutely flat from rim to boss - if that genuinely is the case then Hornby have blown away one of the most obvious features of these locomotives across ALL of the variations - BIG WHOOPSIE I posted images on the Facebook post to that effect. They managed to do it with the D16/3 so I don't see why they could t for the B12. Spoils the look Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Market65 Posted October 16, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 16, 2016 I don't know whether to make my purchases or not with, if correct, incorrect wheels are fitted to the finished models. A kit would be a much better option all round. I will wait and see. Feeling a bit disappointed if they are flat across from rim to boss. Regards, Rob. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 31A Posted October 16, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 16, 2016 To be honest, looking at the pictures on the Hornby web site I think the wheel bosses DO stand proud of the spokes; the pictures are small (but can be enlarged) and, in the rear three quarters view (fourth picture) in particular, there are clearly shadows between the bosses and the spokes of the wheels. In the first picture (which admittedly may be computer generated) the spokes seem to flare outwards towards the wheel centre. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PMP99 Posted October 16, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 16, 2016 To be honest, looking at the pictures on the Hornby web site I think the wheel bosses DO stand proud of the spokes; the pictures are small (but can be enlarged) and, in the rear three quarters view (fourth picture) in particular, there are clearly shadows between the bosses and the spokes of the wheels. In the first picture (which admittedly may be computer generated) the spokes seem to flare outwards towards the wheel centre. Agree the wheel centres are proud of the spokes. Less convinced about the spokes flaring out. Will be happy to be proved wrong! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pint of Adnams Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Agree the wheel centres are proud of the spokes. Less convinced about the spokes flaring out. Will be happy to be proved wrong! No sign of any flare to the spokes on the LNER liveried version... http://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/shop/locomotives/locomotives-by-class/holden-b12/lner-4-6-0-holden-b12-class.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold toboldlygo Posted October 18, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 18, 2016 Looking at the photo's of the real B12 (currently being prepped for it's trip to the Bluebell Railway) those flares to spokes from the wheel centres are there, but look a lot tighter radius than that of a D16/3 etc. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10154060570473723&set=pcb.10154060571408723&type=3&theater Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Just the photo to show how the wheels should look. If the model has flat wheels the B12 may as well have a Triang chassis...groan.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted October 18, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 18, 2016 Zoomed in as far as I can on my phone without going fuzzy. Definitely no wheel flare there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Market65 Posted October 18, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 18, 2016 Oh dear! I will not be purchasing based on that. If the wheels are correct with the flares then I will purchase. In the meantime, it is time to start considering the kit alternatives........ Regards, Rob. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 I am absolutely outraged and disgusted by all of this. I wholeheartedly agree with the calls to boycott it. Now I'm just going to read the thread and find out what it's about. A B12 apparently. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Now I'm just going to read the thread and find out what it's about. A B12 apparently. Yep - its an extra soft pencil. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Removed a/c Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Rails has a really good close up of the wheels https://railsofsheffield.com/lner-4-6-0-kilverstone-hall-b17-class-locomotive-2842-JJJA29967.aspx Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted October 18, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 18, 2016 Rails has a really good close up of the wheels https://railsofsheffield.com/lner-4-6-0-kilverstone-hall-b17-class-locomotive-2842-JJJA29967.aspx That's a B17, not a B12. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black 5 Bear Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 A real shame that Hornby appear to have cut corners on this one. Although I don't model the GE, I did plan to buy a late BR version, this however is too much of a compromise and doesn't look right. Perhaps they will do a second run with the correct driving wheels at a later stage ??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted October 19, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 19, 2016 (edited) Reading some posts here I am left with the distinct impression there's no hope for mankind.One question :Does the spokesperson wear flares ? Edited October 19, 2016 by Ian Hargrave 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black 5 Bear Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 We've had "Paintgate" now were on "Wheelgate", Lol. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pint of Adnams Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 Reading some posts here I am left with the distinct impression there's no hope for mankind.One question :Does the spokesperson wear fllares ? Don't know - he didn't 'turn-up', obviously forgetting to adopt the 'belt and braces' approach. Oh, that makes me crease up! (room for some more posters to zip in or fly by... you gotta pick a pocket or two, guys.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 I'm getting a B12, flares or none! What we SHOULD be worrying about is the colour match between the plastic moulded wheel spokes and the rest of the loco, especially with the LNER liveried one. Hornby are notorious for getting this wrong and sometimes end up with an almost neon green effect.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 Having gone for 00, I am sure most people nevertheless expect locos to be accurate and well detailed, which they usually are these days. So there are no acceptable excuses for poorly profiled wheel bosses and spokes on steam locos. They do make a difference and are as important as the shape of other details. People might possibly be 'turned on' in due course when they are able to compare the driving wheels on the Hornby and Hattons GWR 'King'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 The old expression seems to sum up the design team at Hornby, spoiling the ship for a hapworth of tar, the wheels are not the same as the real thing.....when are Hornby going to ever get it all right, there are always these basic howlers on each release, and the mistakes overlap each other, showing that they do not learn from mistakes. They make the wheels correct on the other B17, so what cataclysmic change has occurred in the staff at Hornby since making the better pattern. Time after time the mistakes are made in areas that they should have carefully recorded over the years, and should form a basic consultation bible that is consulted, read, learnt, digested by the designer. If on the other tack they simply state that due to costs they cannot make new moulds and state this clearly, they could be forgiven a bit. But they don't, they simply plough ahead and leave a trail of mistakes that should never have happened. It is so disappointing that yet another model slips out with problems, it is getting tiresome and deeply worrying that they are so out of touch with their own previous work. The wheels will not stop sales, to most a minor issue,but it is not the exact details that are the problem , it is the whole picture of why Hornby make mistakes at all. Nobody's perfect, but once a lesson is learned, why do they unlearn it the next time. Stephen 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 31A Posted October 19, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 19, 2016 I can't think of any 'basic howlers' in the L1, B1, B17, K1, O1, J15 or D16 models, all of which I have several of and often think back to the days when the availability of such locos ready to run was beyond the wildest pipe dreams, and the only way to have models of them was to build them from kits. Which I did, but the locos I produced were to nowhere near the standards of these beautiful models! As for the "other B17" comment, I don't understand the relevance since this thread is about B12s which are completely different locomotives, including the driving wheels! Let's just wait and see what actually turns up in the shops before we start jumping to conclusions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted October 19, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 19, 2016 Don't know - he didn't 'turn-up', obviously forgetting to adopt the 'belt and braces' approach. Oh, that makes me crease up! (room for some more posters to zip in or fly by... you gotta pick a pocket or two, guys.) Reminiscent of that great Hornby hit " Ten Spokes On My Pony Truck " a Star classic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 The B17 comment was to show that Hornby got the spokes right on that one, as they have done on many occasions, but this basic fact has been disregarded by the current designer. The B12 spokes as shown, are not the right profile, they are simply wrong. Once a company gets something right (or wrong), it should be recorded and carefully checked that it never happens again. This is the slow process of learning! But Hornby have a habit of the design shuffle, one step forward, and two back in an unexplainable way. We wish them every success with the models, but once a point is corrected it should not be back stepped. If only they would cross check what has been brought up as problems over the last 60 years, they should be making much better models. It's is always the niggling details, handrail mounts, tyre width, flange height, wheel appearance, buffer heights that lets down the standard a bit. It may not be the scenario, but I suspect it is tha lack of day to day contact with the factory that leads to these problems. If the pattern maker and mould make were in the next block to the design team, then constant attention and corrections can be made, but Hornby have out-shopped all production to the FE, I suspect that the factory have rarely met the designers, let alone work together on a permanent basis. Modern net communication should help, but as we know from the mistakes, problems creep in that should not be there. I had long experience with UK production, where we constantly up graded parts every day, samples back and forth to the designers, discussions over meal breaks about minor issues, all was carefully related to previous production, and in those days the staff were all long serving and knew every trick in the book. As we made test equipment it had to work perfectly. The Chinese cannot contribute anything to the designs, they know little about foreign railways, their speciality is to make exactly what is designed at lower labour costs. Therefore the design team bears the responsibility to make sure such basis errors as wheel profiles being wrong do not get into the system. Hornby are the designers and as such must bear the responsibility. If these mistakes lose only a few sales then there may be no pressure to improve. but that's not the way to run a business, even if they cannot achieve it the goal must be perfection. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted October 19, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 19, 2016 (edited) I can't think of any 'basic howlers' in the L1, B1, B17, K1, O1, J15 or D16 models, all of which I have several of and often think back to the days when the availability of such locos ready to run was beyond the wildest pipe dreams, and the only way to have models of them was to build them from kits. Which I did, but the locos I produced were to nowhere near the standards of these beautiful models! As for the "other B17" comment, I don't understand the relevance since this thread is about B12s which are completely different locomotives, including the driving wheels! Let's just wait and see what actually turns up in the shops before we start jumping to conclusions.Amen to that.....but I fear you may be taking on the role of King Canute....there's just too many of 'em. Edited October 19, 2016 by Ian Hargrave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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