Hornby B12

[Black 5 Bear]

I personally think that we have been spoilt over the last few years with some of the latest releases. Now that people are expected to pay RRP of £160 in the case of Hornby, is it not right to expect that the product is a good representation of the real thing? People have mentioned "Re-Wheeling", should we really have to do this in this day and age at additional cost to the modeller? Hornby really need to delay this release and replace the wheels or many will simply cancel their orders and wait for the updated version.

[Black 5 Bear]

Please disregard my last post having seen the latest update from Hornby.

Edited October 20, 2016 by Black 5 Bear

[Classsix T]

The devil in me suspects the manufacturers meet up in their London club and brag how many teacup hurricanes they've started this month.

 

Don't have to try too hard do they? Tsk...

 

C6T.

[Market65]

That is good news, and I am so relieved! I can plan my purchases with confidence now.

 

Regards,

 

Rob.

[Nimbus]

All this worry about spokes when they've got the boiler and firebox wrong. 

To be honest it's an elemental mistake that should have been sorted out in the design stage.

 

[snip]

 

But we're talking about a £160 model. It should be correct at that price. I think it's one of those "once seen, never forgotten" things. So I can understand the disappointment that some are feeling.

 

I dug back through The Engine Shed blog to find the CAD animation. The correct spokes were definitely captured at that stage, so it's strange indeed if it's regressed.

 

The Nim.

[stewartingram]

If that is true, does anyone have a spare set of the original B12 wheels lying around? I'd like to convert mine, so it is a proper toy train for my trainset.....

 

 

Stewart

[Hilux5972]

If that is true, does anyone have a spare set of the original B12 wheels lying around? I'd like to convert mine, so it is a proper toy train for my trainset.....

 

 

Stewart

Please see my post above.

[31A]

If that is true, does anyone have a spare set of the original B12 wheels lying around? I'd like to convert mine, so it is a proper toy train for my trainset.....

 

 

Stewart

You can have mine Stewart, from a CKD one circa 1960. You might as well have to whole loco, it's too short and it's boiler's too small - and I attempted to paint it in LNER green livery!

[Ian Hargrave]

Hornby replied to my post on their Facebook page.

 

 

Please accept nomination for next year's Nobel Peace Prize.....

[Hilux5972]

Please accept nomination for next year's Nobel Peace Prize.....

Why thank you, Ian. I graciously and humbly accept.

[Downer]

And now for the post-traumatic stress therapy.

[bertiedog]

Presumably someone, somewhere, sometime, somehow, will have converted one of these to P4. I am told that the spacing behind the splashers to put in full length axles, rather than the 4ft 1in gauge that it has as standard, is quite limited.

 

I am looking for one of these now, but if what I was told earlier proves to be correct then I will not only have to replace the wheels but the chassis and bodywork too. It will be then be named- "LNER- Trigger's Broom"

Don't worry, this is one of the advantages of 00 models, the overall outside width of the 00 wheelset is about scale width, plus the working clearances 00 models have to go around curves. Older Hornby with the wider tyres gave an easy conversion, the width was the same as P4.

 

There are a few models in 00 where the P4 wheels only leave a few thou clearance, but if the clearance is there then go ahead. The devil is in the details, some locos are very difficult if fine scale 00 wheels were used and the splashers were made close due to the wheels not requiring much side movement, as in 4 coupled locomotives.

 

P4 requires no side clearances for the wheels to move sideways, bar the amount the real thing has. This is why P4 requires you to stick to Prototype radius curves and scale turnouts.

 

For non experienced newcomers to P4, just do not expect the locos to go around corners! Things were tight under splashers on real locos and you are facing the same challenge.

 

The nuisance is the piston rod centre line on outside cylinders, these are often in a non scale position and the cylinders may need packing out for P4 and don't forget the valve gear must be scale thickness to fit, but it can be jiggled a bit.

 

Stephen

[bertiedog]

Well, I apologise to Hornby, but it does show the modern method of long release and a dribble of pictures of various stages can cause problems... also I did contact them and got no reply on the wheels myself.

 

Stephen.

[MGR Hooper!]

LIFE CAN GO ON...

[Removed a/c]

Just my opinion but I wish people would just wait until it is released before they start moaning. It is happening  more and more with every release. I understand the need to help the manufacturer to get it right but moaning about it on the forum is probably not likely to help all that much. 

[Black 5 Bear]

_{Perhaps in this case Hornby themselves are partly to blame. They actually announced these locomotives on their website as being the finished article. In addition to this, when I spoke to customer services they actually confirmed that these models were production models. You can only go on what you are told I'm afraid. Anyway all's well that ends well !}

[Steamport Southport]

Announcements can be misleading. When I got the one titled "The end of the journey for the Holden B12 Class" I assumed it had been cancelled.

 

 

Yes it can be premature to criticise. But what if nobody commented and then everyone ended up with incorrect models because no one told the manufacturers that it was wrong?

 

When many models are going to be pre order only you need the manufacturer to post regular updates. You won't be able to check them in the shop.

 

 

Jason

[Pint of Adnams]

Just my opinion but I wish people would just wait until it is released before they start moaning. It is happening  more and more with every release. I understand the need to help the manufacturer to get it right but moaning about it on the forum is probably not likely to help all that much. 

I can only disagree - the reason it is happening is that the manufacturers now drip-feed us with CAD visualisations followed by EPs followed by decorated samples with pauses for station identification (old US terminology for an ad break) via Engine Shed or Farcebook or Twatter and then, to compound the misdemeanour, put teasers in their vids to kick off another round of speculation. Oh and then the magazines repeat the above whilst, at least this last year, Hornby produced a book telling all in lieu of a catalogue, which includes an explanation as to how the model design is developed to provide for future production runs with the appropriate class modifications, rebuilds or individual differences - how can we not rise to that challenge and granularity of detail?

 

Which would we collectively rather have - accurate models or approximate representations? For the prices these days (oops - I shouldn'a said the 'p' word) we have a right to expect quality.

 

And anyway, what are forums for?

[jjb1970]

Quality or fidelity to prototype? They are not necessarily the same thing. A rather basic and inaccurate model may be beautifully manufactured to an extremely high standard and offer construction quality to drool over. Equally, a beautiful looking model may be junk in terms of build quality. The old Marklin models were superbly built, despite being pretty crude and basic.

[Removed a/c]

I can only disagree - the reason it is happening is that the manufacturers now drip-feed us with CAD visualisations followed by EPs followed by decorated samples with pauses for station identification (old US terminology for an ad break) via Engine Shed or Farcebook or Twatter and then, to compound the misdemeanour, put teasers in their vids to kick off another round of speculation. Oh and then the magazines repeat the above whilst, at least this last year, Hornby produced a book telling all in lieu of a catalogue, which includes an explanation as to how the model design is developed to provide for future production runs with the appropriate class modifications, rebuilds or individual differences - how can we not rise to that challenge and granularity of detail?

 

Which would we collectively rather have - accurate models or approximate representations? For the prices these days (oops - I shouldn'a said the 'p' word) we have a right to expect quality.

 

And anyway, what are forums for?

If the models are not accurately made when they are released then the best way to show our disappointment is to not buy them and maybe they would learn. To be honest, as has been said previously by other posters  I am also no expert as I would not know about the wheels nor do I live to that level of correctness. I would buy it because over all it looks nice despite it not being 100% accurate and lets face it what RTR ever is or has been? 

 

With the exception of one or two smaller manufacturers there is no communication between manufacturers on here and to be honest I never expect there to be. It is a bonus when Rapido or DJModels posts and engages with the members. 

 

Just my 2 cents...........

[bertiedog]

If they can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.....the flack is not just the one model, it is commenting on a whole history of models over the years...many of us are old enough to remember Rovex and yes we are grumpy old men, gone grey trying to get makers give us models to be proud of, not ones to give excuses for.

 

In life generally there are plenty of people who are easily satisfied, but they are the dream customer to most businesses. What we need is a discerning customer, who has genuine knowledge about his purchase.

 

It helps to keep Firms on their toes about the products, they do no favours to us in making models, it is a business, and they have to go to bed each night worried about the next day, and getting things right.

 

I trust my criticisms about the models are always constructive, I back it up with experience, books and photos, and as appropriate answers to the problems. That is very different to moaning...........

[jjb1970]

I think it is good to keep a sense of perspective otherwise you risk ending up like the writer who wrote the infamous "blood on their hands" editorial in Rail Express a few years ago. I am pretty intolerant of low quality and consider that there is no good reason why a model should not work but if I'm quite tolerant to the appearance of a model so long as it looks right to my eyes and captures the look of the prototype.

[coachmann]

Research versus indifference......It's not just a wide church, they are different worlds. If people dont want to know the wheels are a particular shape then fine, but anything you do say will never make right wrong.

[Steamport Southport]

If the models are not accurately made when they are released then the best way to show our disappointment is to not buy them and maybe they would learn.

 

The problem is the way the hobby is going with pre orders, short runs and limited editions. Most of these aren't going to be seen anywhere near a shop before they are sold out. Most of the Pecketts seem to be already gone for example.

 

If you don't put an order in then it's likely that you won't get one.

 

If you do put an order in and when it turns up it's wrong, then unless it's something physical such as damage then you aren't going to get a refund. If you've seen previews then you can see that it's painted the wrong colour (for example) and cancel it.

 

 

Jason

[Removed a/c]

I see all of your points and they are valid, perhaps moaning was the wrong word to use. 

 

From my perspective I guess I am not a serious modeller I like putting together kit buildings don;t think I could tackle making a locomotive much less paint and decal one ! In my eyes people that are unhappy with the wheels (in this case) to me it is such a small detail and that these modellers wouldn't buy this type of model anyway and would be part of the crew that would be making it from a kit.  If the majority of the modellers are happy with the loco as is and others are going to switch wheels to P4 or EM i don't see it to really be a problem. I think what needs to be address more is items not being fit for purpose ! Far more frustrating than some wheels being incorrect. 

Edited October 20, 2016 by thebritfarmer