Oxford Rail announces - OO gauge Mk3 coaches

[ThaneofFife]

i saw them in the flesh at the show.  didnt like the look of the liveries at all.  the intercity ones just look really utterly bad and toy like.  I dont really like the blue grey either but cant offer an explanation why and I missed the scotrail samples but that lower half still looks odd.  

 

strange that they are sticking to their guns - they do look wrong but that's because I am brainwashed by whats gone before.  is OR colour right and everybody else has got it wrong?   its really hard to decide looking at what photos I could find on the net...…..not sure if they are right to stand their ground if the colour is correct or whether they should be correcting the colour so that they simply match whats out there already ie; 47/7 and DBSO?

was the lower half in ScotRail the same as lower half executive light grey/stone or more the light grey portrayed on these samples?

 

they've only been released 5 mins and I saw loads on offer from £20 in the bargain bins with bits missing or broken couplings.

 

this seems to be one almighty cockerel up. the mk3 could be a huge money maker if it was right.

 

I was thinking last night how amazing a Bachmann Mk3 would be but the drawback there is I would not be able to afford any.

Edited November 25, 2018 by ThaneofFife

[Mike at C&M]

I have had a more active hand in trying to persuade Oxford Rail to match to Bachmann colours, rather than follow the specifications. Based on what we did for our N gauge Dapol ScotRail Mark 3 commission to match the colours to the Graham Farish models, I know that the specifications do disagree to what has been used on models produced, but that has to be balanced against the fact that modellers like a train that is all in one livery to appear as a uniformly coloured set.

 

At Glasgow in February, I persuaded the Oxford rep. to go and purchase one of the AMRSS limited edition Bachmann ScotRail 47/7s, so they had a sample to work with to match the colours. I find it extremely disappointing that the powers that be within Oxford Rail cannot see what an effect it is going to have on sales of these coaches if there is an obvious colour mis-match to the models that people already own. As a retailer close to the Scottish market, I will be drastically reducing my orders if they cannot take on board what the market is demanding.

 

So I plead with Oxford Rail, give the market what it wants (a colour match), or suffer drastically reduced sales as the market turns against you.

 

There will be no shame in back-tracking, and it is more likely that you will be seen in a favourable light for responding to market demands.

 

Mike at C&M

[Bob Reid]

Very interesting Mike, do you have a copy of these "specifications" that say the others were wrong that you could share?

[Mike at C&M]

Very interesting Mike, do you have a copy of these "specifications" that say the others were wrong that you could share?

Unfortunately not, but it was shades different. I do remember there being discussions that a large slab of colour on a 1:1 scale prototype tends to look different to a 1:76 model, simply because of the way the eye and brain perceives it. In the case of the Dapol Mark 3s, we simply went for a colour match with the Bachmann/Farish colours - Full Stop.

[Bob Reid]

The reason I asked Mike, is that written specifications by BR generally only specified how the "standard" colour should be achieved in terms of description. The actual colour that the paint manufacturers - at least four at one point had to be colour matched and approved by BR's Procurement folk by comparison to colour matched panels.  Effectively if you did not match them to the colour panels (and these were physically painted panels, and not printed colour patches) the specification wasn't met.  The colours produced by both Precision & Railmatch used these colour matched panels (at a time when these were still current liveries) to produce the paints exactly as BR had, hence the reason that by comparison, the colours they produce are a good match for the likes of the Bachmann produced stock.

 

There is the question of colour scaling but that debate is a complete minefield!

[steve1023]

Oh dear. Pre-order cancelled.

[ThaneofFife]

the Dapol mk3s were a good match.

[Mike at C&M]

The first ever meeting of the Dapol 'N' gauge Mark 3s and the last pre-production sample of the Graham Farish Class 47/7. This picture was taken at a trade open day in Edinburgh under the watchful eye of a number of retailers, who were impressed at how the two models from different manufacturers matched one another.

 

Dear Mr.Oxford Rail, it can be done!

 

[ThaneofFife]

so really even if the spec from the 70s that oxford have is accurate they ought to ditch that and just match up to other existing items or risk simply not selling the coaches.......

 

its not just the scotrails either.

[Bob Reid]

The first ever meeting of the Dapol 'N' gauge Mark 3s and the last pre-production sample of the Graham Farish Class 47/7. This picture was taken at a trade open day in Edinburgh under the watchful eye of a number of retailers, who were impressed at how the two models from different manufacturers matched one another.

 

Dear Mr.Oxford Rail, it can be done!

 

A1370895.jpg

 

 

I'll wager Mike both are good match (paint wise) from back when the livery was current - more than 30 years ago - as you say, it can be done, and you certainly proved it.

Lima CO Image, courtesy of Hattons.

[tractor_37260]

so really even if the spec from the 70s that oxford have is accurate they ought to ditch that and just match up to other existing items or risk simply not selling the coaches.......

 

its not just the scotrails either.

 

The colours that Ox Rail have decided to use are simply wrong in any lighting conditions  - end of story............

 

BTW the lower bodyside colour (Ex Light Grey) was the same on all Swallow/Inter-City and ScotRail coaches.................

 

Oxford Rail may well have been listening, but sadly they just didn't hear !  there is a difference..............

[Waverley47708]

Colours same as intercity ones. They ARE going to add silver surrounds to windows but ARE NOT altering the colours as they maintain they are right and others are wrong. Their rep advised me that in their survey 70% modellers said they wanted correct colours and not a match to other manufacturers so that is what Oxford will deliver. They claim the colours are exactly as per BR design manual so are correct. Also advised that arrival may be middle of next year for scotrail ones.

 

Unbelievable, absolutely unbelievable, when almost everyone else tells you the colour is wrong and you choose to ignore the advice. Part of me thinks oh well saves me £300 as I won't be buying two rakes of ScotRail. Ill stick to my laserglazed Limas. On the other hand I get a bit annoyed at what looks like a good coach apart from the colour and them shooting themselves in the foot.

 

Assuming they will be at Glasgow next February, suspect the poor rep will be inundated with people repeating what they have been told.

 

The ref to 1970 colour charts has me confused. ScotRail appeared in 84, is the 70s ref due to the light and dark grey being used or at least proposed on the APT sometime in the 70s.

 

Mr Oxford if you are reading this, I can't remember what way I voted, but if I was one of the 70% when voted for the "correct" colour. I would not have voted for that "correct" colour, I would have assumed the correct colour was correct. Can I get a second vote!

 

Can I make a suggestion, make 70% of them in your "correct" colour and 30% in what Pheonix, Bachmann, Lima, Railmatch and most RMWEBers think is correct but you consider wrong and we will see which ones sell and which ones stay on the shelves.

Edited November 26, 2018 by Waverley47708

[Tiddles47]

Unbelievable, absolutely unbelievable, when almost everyone else tells you the colour is wrong and you choose to ignore the advice. Part of me thinks oh well saves me £300 as I won't be buying two rakes of ScotRail. Ill stick to my laserglazed Limas. On the other hand I get a bit annoyed at what looks like a good coach apart from the colour and them shooting themselves in the foot.

 

Assuming they will be at Glasgow next February, suspect the poor rep will be inundated with people repeating what they have been told.

 

The ref to 1970 colour charts has me confused. ScotRail appeared in 84, is the 70s ref due to the light and dark grey being used or at least proposed on the APT sometime in the 70s.

 

Mr Oxford if you are reading this, I can't remember what way I voted, but if I was one of the 70% when voted for the "correct" colour. I would not have voted for that "correct" colour, I would have assumed the correct colour was correct. Can I get a second vote!

 

Can I make a suggestion, make 70% of them in your "correct" colour and 30% in what Pheonix, Bachmann, Lima, Railmatch and most RMWEBers think is correct but you consider wrong and we will see which ones sell and which ones stay on the shelves.

Waverley, the ref to 70's chart was that is dated back to the 70's but was updated over the intervening years several times to encompass various liveries. (that's what Mr Oxford said) But still very annoying that they haven't taken on board criticism apart from the silver window surrounds. It smacks of "sod you we're right so deal with it"

[Bob Reid]

And the one colour that hasn't changed is Executive Light Grey (originally APT Light Grey) - Reference to a Chart is what exactly?  Any printed chart is only for indicative purposes and certainly not for paint matching. See previous posting.

[ThaneofFife]

Unbelievable, absolutely unbelievable, when almost everyone else tells you the colour is wrong and you choose to ignore the advice. Part of me thinks oh well saves me £300 as I won't be buying two rakes of ScotRail. Ill stick to my laserglazed Limas. On the other hand I get a bit annoyed at what looks like a good coach apart from the colour and them shooting themselves in the foot.

 

Assuming they will be at Glasgow next February, suspect the poor rep will be inundated with people repeating what they have been told.

 

 

indeed but really the Rep isn't doing a very good job if he isn't going back to HQ and "smashing some backside"...….he or she could easily take back some evidence to back up his or her findings from the public not least a Bachmann Class 47/7 or DBSO in the correct livery and lined up against the sample Mk3a livery with photos to show the utter discrepancy......they've had to change the artwork to accommodate the silver window frames presumably so now they've got to change it again!    What a strange way to do business...….

 

I remember how quickly Hornby listened on something as minor as whether the battery charger box underneath the new Class 87 (blue version) should be black or white given that it was a named loco but supposedly ex-works!   But they listened/heard and changed it.  

 

Here we talking about the paint on half the model, not some tiny little detail that many were saying they could easily black out with a brush themselves!

 

I don't get it either TBH - reminds of the tory party at all the calls for Universal Credit to be halted.   Nobody is listening.  Everything is just fine.   

Edited November 26, 2018 by ThaneofFife

[ThaneofFife]

PS did the Hornby buying out Oxford Rail thing ever happen?   I cant remember now but if it did then surely there should be some in house expertise on these matters???

[ThaneofFife]

I'll wager Mike both are good match (paint wise) from back when the livery was current - more than 30 years ago - as you say, it can be done, and you certainly proved it.

L305385-U_3218317_Qty1_1.jpg

Lima CO Image, courtesy of Hattons.

 

Looking at that with some new couplings I can see prices of the Limas rising as they are a pukka match for the 47/7 and DBSO.

 

Lima for the time got the Mk3 bob on (bar some very minor detailing)…….at least the colours were right.

[James90012]

I cancelled my preorder with Hattons and explained the reason why via the comments box, hopefully the retailers can put some pressure on OR but I fear it's too late - they were due for release between Septermber and December so they may have already been produced.

[87023Velocity]

With regards to the accuracy of Railmatch, I have a feeling (could be wrong though) they are actually produced by HMG Paints Ltd in Manchester who actually supplied BR/The Rail Industry?

 

Cheers

 

Simon

Edited November 26, 2018 by 87023Velocity

[mikeharvey22]

PS did the Hornby buying out Oxford Rail thing ever happen?   I cant remember now but if it did then surely there should be some in house expertise on these matters???

 

Two years time if Hornby has been turned into a success again. Otherwise they own 49% of LCD Enterprises, who own Oxford Diecast/Rail. LCD have a buy back right under certain circumstances.

[GordonC]

I cancelled my preorder with Hattons and explained the reason why via the comments box, hopefully the retailers can put some pressure on OR but I fear it's too late - they were due for release between Septermber and December so they may have already been produced.

 

I thought these were meant to have been pushed back to mid-next year anyway

[Solo]

This colour faux pas is a real shame, I think the Oxford MK3 is an impressive coach in many ways and was looking forward to building up a nice little Scotrail fleet.  

But having seen the sample at Warley, the shade is just too far off any interpretation of 'correct'.  I did consider 'blue-striping' some of the Bachmann Mk2fs but to my knowledge the Scotrail Mk2 aircons at the time were all of the 2D/2E variety so may be a non-starter.

 

Have OR ever commented on these forums as other smaller manufacturers often seem to?  It would at least restore some faith and be a nod in the direction of (future) customer service to just say "OK guys, point taken, we'll go back to the drawing board on this one..."  Or just get out that Bachmann 47 they bought and use it.  Even if it meant a few extra months delay this would surely be preferable to effectively losing a whole consignment of incorrect models which won't sell.  

 

I don't want to give up on these yet, I WILL BUY THEM IF THEY CHANGE THE COLOUR - so come on Oxford, talk to us!

[njee20]

The problem seems to be that they polled people who overwhelmingly said "correct colours" not "matching colours", so everyone now saying "look how different it is to my Bachmann and Hornby coaches" is just pointed at the "well... we asked, you said you wanted correct".

 

Now obviously that's wholly moot if they've not actually got it correct... it certainly looks terrible, but has anyone definitively confirmed it isn't the right colour (I'm not quite sure how), marred by being applied to a different material in a different way to the real thing, and massively scaled down? All sorts of colours look wrong, even if right.

 

It's certainly a shame they're not going back and making it match, but I guess they're still hiding behind "we asked you, and the people spoke". That attitude is working really well in all sorts of circles these days. Second referendum needed!?

[GordonC]

when we said 'correct colours' we expected someone that wasn't colour blind to be picking them and for them to actually be correct.

 

Had I realised they were going to use totally wrong colours I'd have selected to 'match' Bachmann or Limas!!

[Bob Reid]

In amongst all this gloom and doom about the ScotRail / InterCity Livery - there's one good bit of news for those seeking the Blue & Grey TSO's
 

Update:
Due into stock in the next 2 weeks will be our Blue- Grey Mk3a TSO Coaches.
OR763TO001
OR763TO001B
OR763TO001C